Eagle33
PREMIER
It is coming. Look who is running National AYSO and who coaches are at their United program
CSL Strong???
- Thread starter dreamz
- Start date
Because parents have a HUGE ego problem and they want their kids to be on the BEST HIGHEST level so they can tell their friends that Johnny plays on the best team in the area. The money comes from the younger ages, look at the amount of olders each club has, the numbers dwindle as the players get older. The money maker is on the youth side, that is why there is such a push for the youngers, not as much money in the older age groups. Most of the average players have dropped out by then, but the marketing to be with the best coaches on the best team has faded away, parents become educated and start to figure out the scheme or their kid is just over it by then.
I concur with this. Don't have any issue with it. My only note it's a side effect of the college recruitment system. We get that impact on the youngers because of what's in place for the olders. The structure exists to support the higher placed teams in the clubs that can get the looks for college recruiters. Without the college pressure, most of youth soccer fades away since as you note, as with AYSO, most kids stop playing age 12 and parents lose interest in the bobbles...it becomes little league. It's also why we get the B and C teams....somebody has to pay for the first teams, which is what the system exists to feed.
Agree but the biggest question for United will be answering the college question. Their teams tend to fizzle at the silver elite and gold levels....the really good players that want to play college move on to higher level teams that can give them looks at everyone else looks at it like a high placed rec experience.
Speaking of little league...it's an interesting dynamic....lot's of parents get the "your kid only plays for AYSO" but then their records of some of these teams push back on the approach....so clearly these parents aren't just chasing the fancy bobble....they want the wins. In AYSO United it does contribute to a very little league type environment where the players, parents and coaches really want to win. I spoke to a friend that works there about it...how there was a disconnect between there message of wanting to develop players. He asked me for some proof. I showed him the website of our local AYSO United bragging about how they were the winningest team in the area and bragging about all the trophies they had won prior year. I don't know if he spoke to them but the ad was gone the following week.
Still, the national level is doing great things with this program and I'm hoping they do work out the kinks in their system.
You have a weird way of arguing against something that wasn't said. I said "not the whole team's identity." Not that it wasn't part of it.
Now, I know you aren't arguing that we should just put everyone in Flight 1 just so they feel better about themselves. So, I'll just leave it at that.
I agree that there is a little that is connected. I am just saying don't ignore the fact that there are a LOT of parents who are more concerned with what level their kid is on without any thought about college. The sad part about the whole thing is, parents pick the level before they pick the coach, and they don't think about if it is the right level for their kid to develop.
Back to the Irvine Liverpool example. A club making over 5 MILLION a year. Look at their website, front and center, BEST LEAGUES, BEST PLAYERS, BEST COACHES, according to them, they have the best of everything. Then, if you were a parent and interested in college soccer for your kid, and you were looking at this club, you'd probably say they are in the best league so of course my kid will get exposure. But that is were it all goes downhill, You'd think that parent would then question... "Well how many of the players that come out of this club actually go on to play in college?", especially if that is what they are there for...well, nowhere on the website would you find a list of players that have moved on professionally or in college, kinda makes you wonder what parents are actually choosing?????
And that is from arguably the most profitable, largest club, in Orange County
I think, though, we can both agree that it is a very big part of the identity, probably the 3rd biggest piece after B or G and the age group?
Sorry, but I'm not interested in wasting my time driving out of town and watching my DD's competitive team blowout another team 10-0 so that team can "develop." I am paying for her to be challenged, too. Tighten up in a lower level until the team is ready to compete, or use scrimmages or tournaments to test against higher level teams.
a. If there were more teams in the middle tier, at least in SoCal you wouldn't be driving out of town.
b. 10-0 doesn't really develop anyone. 5-0, 6-0 though can be a valuable learning experience.
c. There are teams at the higher level that view your team the same way
d. The ultimate conclusion of your reasoning then is there should be more flights, not less. In Spain, for example, youth soccer has 10 flights. I think England is the same....maybe 7? Flight 1 should be reserved in SoCal for the 5-10 boys teams, and 3-7 girls teams with potential pro ambitions. fewer clubs, 1 organization to regulate it all and reign in any rebels that try to break the system. You move up and down not by pro/rel but by being recruited onto the higher placed bands.
I think it is a big part of some parent's identity. I have never seen kids bug each other about it. Kids, especially at younger ages, aren't over thinking this. A lot of kids and parents are proud of when their kids win a few games here and there, or when they earn their way from Bronze to Silver, or just compete in Silver.
Lots of teams stay together in Silver for years. They just want to have some good games and good moments, maybe play in high school. All this talk about college and pro ball etc is mostly an echo chamber here.
a. Driving anywhere in LA area is 30 minutes. Games take 2 hours with warmup.
b. 10-0 is what you'll get from a team that couldn't even consistently win in F2 when they play F1 or higher. Stay in F2, learn to win with proper soccer. Move to F1 and at least be a challenge for the other team.
c. So what.
d. Sure.
MLS NEXT and ECNL has way too many teams to be pro bound players only. They appear to be more of a league that wants to see the top 10% and see where that 10% lands when physical and mental maturity hits - college or pro. There's nothing wrong with having a top tier only program if it really allows top tier teams to join.
Average U9/u10 players don't know how to cut off angles but the elite ones do
they may not grow up to be elite as others start learning how to handle angles but at that age, they're the top of the class. That's why they play flight 1 at that age. You're right, most kids are not doing it at that age, that's why they should be playing flight 3 like most kids should. Nothing wrong with that until they do start to accelerate. Parents can't seem to understand this. They want their kids labeled as special and elite at u9/u10 or else they quit the sport or find a new team. U9/U10 average kids may be the future elite kids, depending on how their bodies and mind develop. Most 8/9 year olds are not going to show signs of whether they will be a doctor or business entrepreneur yet. A few will and then change their minds later because science or managing people is too difficult. Let the kids play at the appropriate level and don't get sold as "Champions league" when it's actually flight 3 renamed for parents.
Average U9/u10 players don't know how to cut off angles but the elite ones do
they may not grow up to be elite as others start learning how to handle angles but at that age, they're the top of the class. That's why they play flight 1 at that age. You're right, most kids are not doing it at that age, that's why they should be playing flight 3 like most kids should. Nothing wrong with that until they do start to accelerate. Parents can't seem to understand this. They want their kids labeled as special and elite at u9/u10 or else they quit the sport or find a new team. U9/U10 average kids may be the future elite kids, depending on how their bodies and mind develop. Most 8/9 year olds are not going to show signs of whether they will be a doctor or business entrepreneur yet. A few will and then change their minds later because science or managing people is too difficult. Let the kids play at the appropriate level and don't get sold as "Champions league" when it's actually flight 3 renamed for parents.On my son's middle school team I can guarantee you the kids are comparing when and where they are placed. I agree some silver teams are happy to just sit there (not true of the bronze BTW)...another part of the puzzle is that some people really do approach soccer as little league, and some people are approaching it with pro and college ambitions (particularly once you get to the older ages). It pulls things in different directions and has this distortive effect where the system isn't perfect for either ambition. Of course the clubs go along with it because they aren't stupid and it means more $.
MLS NEXT and ECNL has way too many teams to be pro bound players only. They appear to be more of a league that wants to see the top 10% and see where that 10% lands when physical and mental maturity hits - college or pro. There's nothing wrong with having a top tier only program if it really allows top tier teams to join.
Average U9/u10 players don't know how to cut off angles but the elite ones do
MLS is the pro bound system, at least on the boys end (there's no reason for a boys ECNL to exist if the tiers really are about competition). It's the MLS teams and cannon fodder so they can scrimmage without having to fly every time. The problem then becomes every one wants to join this system because they don't want to be left out of the competition/college looks/prestige. I agree there are too many teams. If you want it tiered flight 1 should mean flight 1 which is just a handful of teams that the truly superior players can go to. But then (until the MLS has pro/rel) there is no pro/rel for these teams.
There are natural GKS and early bloomers but no GK coach worth their salt is teaching a U9/U10 goalkeeper how to cut off the angles. .At that age, the GKs aren't even supposed to be playing in goal full time and aren't supposed to be doing much extra training on it and are supposed to be rotating through. There are no "elite" GKs at U9/U10....that just doesn't exist. You have some big players that can block big goals and you have some athletic players that can do a decent job but none of them know what they are doing. At that age, the GK coaches of any repute are teaching them how to dive safely (not effectively), the basics of positioning, the basics of distribution (to be used later), catching and stance. If they are teaching tactics and angle play to an 8 year old they are doing it wrong.
Junior high schoolers will be a bit more aware. Identity-wise, I submit that the ones in higher flights care about this a lot more than the ones in bronze, and the ones in bronze aren't crying themselves to sleep that your son happens to play at a higher level.
Fair. I am sensitive about this though since my son recently left a bronze team with the world's best coach for development and friends he dearly loved for a higher placed team with a lot more pressure on him. He made the election because he was getting frustrated with his inability to develop more with his teammates and recognized he had hit a dead end if the team was going to play yet another season in bronze. He's not the first that has done this, which forces the team every time it loses a top player to reset, rinse, repeat.
Eagle33
PREMIER
ECNL system is set up to put kids into Colleges not to pros
Yup which was my point. One (prob the main) reason we have this hodgepodge system in the US is because of the distortive effects of college on the youth game. If the tiers were just about competition, ENCL wouldn't exist.
The origin of SCDSL is literally a handful of mega-clubs deciding they wanted more control. For a number of years their minimum team requirements made the league unavailable to "privateer" clubs. Let's not pretend the entire league isn't built around letting the mega-clubs sell, sell, sell.
Grace-there are definitely elite goalkeepers. Ask flight 1 goalkeeper parents at u9/u10
Yeah, and if you ask every parent of a kid playing at U9/U10, I'd venture at least 50% of them call themselves ready for elite.
There is no such thing as an elite goalkeeper at U9/U10. There shouldn't even be a permanent goalkeeper on the team at U9/U10. The United soccer coach guidance and most other goalkeeper coach guidance out there says no FT keepers until U12, and at U9/U10 GK safety and basic skills should be the emphasis for all aspiring GKs.