Stay and Play

[notintheface]

Understood. So how are the African American ballers making it to the National Team in a greater percentage from other parts of the country? Are they not coming up in pay to play systems or are you saying that the pay to play system is a much higher $$$ in SoCal?

To give you an idea, pre-pandemic I was planning on going out to Atlanta to study up on the culture that Atlanta United has created there. Hopefully once we get our vaccines I can still make that trip. People in Orange County need to understand just how much of a bubble they live in-- yes you are getting some kids paying 3 grand a year for soccer but by and large the world isn't like that. Successful programs are very much about instilling a base culture of potential, diversity, and abilities no matter the cost. That, I think, is what the most-brainwashed parents in the OC have the most wrong; the idea that you have to pay out the nose for Blues, your ECNL travel, and all of that is just wrong. People aren't dumb, I think they probably realize this at some base level but there is so much entrenched thought around "well, if I don't spend 10 grand a year on this, little Brayden isn't going to get noticed" that I understand it's easy to get suckered.

It is about playing, and if as a parent you're looking for your kids to get on the USMNT/USWNT you are in the absolute wrong place here because the networking and connections required to get that look are completely disconnected from any spending you might do. (Why does Tim Weah's cousin have a spot on the team, for example)

 

[Zvezdas]

True, but that's even less room for a homegrown kid from Cordoba that wants to break into pros. First, he has to be good enough to get into the academy. Then, he has to be good enough to survive the academy. Then, he has to be good enough to beat the Croatian kid. Tough ride.

And its not even about being better than Croatian kid, its all about soccer market! So, kid from Cordoba can play for U18 Real Madrid academy, but his chances of playing senior soccer for RM are slim to none, his chances of playing for U18 Spanish NT are also very small in comparison to Croat kid who plays most likely for Dinamo Zg, being at Dinamo academy he has an almost guaranteed spot in the Croat NT, at age 17-18 he already played some games in their domestic pro league, and by virtue of current Croat NT ranking can easily transfer to any major EU club for a handsome transfer fee...same can be said of random Dutch kid in same situation (vs Spanish kid)...non-EU and Eastern European youth players often get more chances at playing senior soccer then their counterparts in Western Europe, if they come from a country with significant tradition like Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and their national teams are "trendy" they will get pro contract before their Western Euro counterparts, also they are much cheaper salary wise although their initial transfers will be hefty, but their future transfer will be more lucrative (look at modric, matic, jovic etc.)...

 

[watfly]

To give you an idea, pre-pandemic I was planning on going out to Atlanta to study up on the culture that Atlanta United has created there. Hopefully once we get our vaccines I can still make that trip. People in Orange County need to understand just how much of a bubble they live in-- yes you are getting some kids paying 3 grand a year for soccer but by and large the world isn't like that. Successful programs are very much about instilling a base culture of potential, diversity, and abilities no matter the cost. That, I think, is what the most-brainwashed parents in the OC have the most wrong; the idea that you have to pay out the nose for Blues, your ECNL travel, and all of that is just wrong. People aren't dumb, I think they probably realize this at some base level but there is so much entrenched thought around "well, if I don't spend 10 grand a year on this, little Brayden isn't going to get noticed" that I understand it's easy to get suckered.

It is about playing, and if as a parent you're looking for your kids to get on the USMNT/USWNT you are in the absolute wrong place here because the networking and connections required to get that look are completely disconnected from any spending you might do. (Why does Tim Weah's cousin have a spot on the team, for example)

I live in a bubble in here in San Diego, that's part of why I asked the question. If you make it out to Atlanta please report back on what you saw.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

I live in a bubble in here in San Diego, that's part of why I asked the question. If you make it out to Atlanta please report back on what you saw.

Here's my take based on my experience growing up in South America.

1. US has a huge talent pool to build amazing teams. Who cares if Lebron or Tom Brady types are not playing soccer. The best athletes do not make great soccer players. Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco tried and failed), The fastest runner in the world tried it and couldnt make it even on the Australian league.

2. South America succeeds because the best players rise to the top through local leagues and school leagues at a very young age. Tournaments are organized for everyone to play and coaches find the best players this way. Only a few make it to the top at a young age.

3. Most kids in South America play for fun and develop their technical skills and soccer IQ on their own as young as age 5. Kids play every day in the street, before school, during school, after school. During my summer days, we played all day from 10am to midnight. We learned the technical skills by playing on asphalt, in between cars, and plenty of 3 v 3's and 5 v 5's. We developed our skills by trying out tricks and playing for fun. No coaches or parents telling us what to do.

4. The USA is a consumer first soccer environment. If Dad thinks his/her little child is awesome, that kid gets pushed to flight 1, ecnl, ecrl, da, mls next. People make up leagues to get their little ones in the top teams. We live in an entitled society (Especially in the OC and SD).

5. The moment our USWNT starts losing to the rest of the world, we will finally begin to see changes to the youth programs. European countries are catching up to the US but they still have a good 4 years to go.

Finally, this is great that we are finally talking about soccer in this forum!! It's about time.

 

[OrangeCountyDad]

just as a comparison- my other kid does competitive dance and we can *only* stay at the hotel the competition provides AND the competition is required to sell X-number of hotel stay nights. They very carefully manage the schedule so families are stuck there X-number of nights. 2019 we had events on days 1 and 2, nothing on day 3, one event day 4, final event on day 5. I suppose we could've driven home for day 3 and turned around the following day. spent the gas on driving back and forth plus the time lost to a 100 miles 1-way drive.

 

[Grace T.]

Here's my take based on my experience growing up in South America.

1. US has a huge talent pool to build amazing teams. Who cares if Lebron or Tom Brady types are not playing soccer. The best athletes do not make great soccer players. Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco tried and failed), The fastest runner in the world tried it and couldnt make it even on the Australian league.

2. South America succeeds because the best players rise to the top through local leagues and school leagues at a very young age. Tournaments are organized for everyone to play and coaches find the best players this way. Only a few make it to the top at a young age.

3. Most kids in South America play for fun and develop their technical skills and soccer IQ on their own as young as age 5. Kids play every day in the street, before school, during school, after school. During my summer days, we played all day from 10am to midnight. We learned the technical skills by playing on asphalt, in between cars, and plenty of 3 v 3's and 5 v 5's. We developed our skills by trying out tricks and playing for fun. No coaches or parents telling us what to do.

4. The USA is a consumer first soccer environment. If Dad thinks his/her little child is awesome, that kid gets pushed to flight 1, ecnl, ecrl, da, mls next. People make up leagues to get their little ones in the top teams. We live in an entitled society (Especially in the OC and SD).

5. The moment our USWNT starts losing to the rest of the world, we will finally begin to see changes to the youth programs. European countries are catching up to the US but they still have a good 4 years to go.

Finally, this is great that we are finally talking about soccer in this forum!! It's about time.

Agree with almost everything here (great insight into Latin American football) but a few notes.

1. Yes, but as others have noted the problem is player ID. There is a bit of a glass ceiling in the US, particularly for Latino working class players, unless they are early bloomers enough to get IDd by an MLS academy.

2. South America isn't doing as great relative to Europe as it once was. Part of the reason it has held in as long as it can has been because the Messis of the world can go to Europe due to the closer immigration and laxer tax laws between the regions. Spain has long been an outlet, but after the refugee crisis of a few years back, the EU tightened immigration requirements making it harder for Latin American players to play in Europe. Fortunately for them, like the LA Galaxy's Pavon, for second tier players the MLS also offers a ready market.

3. Part of the technical deficiency of Latin American players has been an overemphasize on 1 v 1, dribbling, the physical game, and short passing over long field dynamics you get from playing on an academy team. Latin America has taken steps to replicate the academy system, but with less money hasn't been as successful as Europe.

4. My father made a run at the B leagues in Peru when he was younger. He took an injury and that was the end of his pro dreams.

 

[Grace T.]

And its not even about being better than Croatian kid, its all about soccer market! So, kid from Cordoba can play for U18 Real Madrid academy, but his chances of playing senior soccer for RM are slim to none, his chances of playing for U18 Spanish NT are also very small in comparison to Croat kid who plays most likely for Dinamo Zg, being at Dinamo academy he has an almost guaranteed spot in the Croat NT, at age 17-18 he already played some games in their domestic pro league, and by virtue of current Croat NT ranking can easily transfer to any major EU club for a handsome transfer fee...same can be said of random Dutch kid in same situation (vs Spanish kid)...non-EU and Eastern European youth players often get more chances at playing senior soccer then their counterparts in Western Europe, if they come from a country with significant tradition like Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and their national teams are "trendy" they will get pro contract before their Western Euro counterparts, also they are much cheaper salary wise although their initial transfers will be hefty, but their future transfer will be more lucrative (look at modric, matic, jovic etc.)...

Agree but that's where the solidarity and transfer payments come in. The A level academies like La Masia aren't necessarily training players to play at Barcelona....they are training them to sell them to La Coruna or Zaragoza. The B level academies are training the players not necessarily to play at their home teams, but to sell to Latin America or China. Bit exception in Spain being my homeland of Bilbao.

 

[watfly]

Here's my take based on my experience growing up in South America.

1. US has a huge talent pool to build amazing teams. Who cares if Lebron or Tom Brady types are not playing soccer. The best athletes do not make great soccer players. Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco tried and failed), The fastest runner in the world tried it and couldnt make it even on the Australian league.

2. South America succeeds because the best players rise to the top through local leagues and school leagues at a very young age. Tournaments are organized for everyone to play and coaches find the best players this way. Only a few make it to the top at a young age.

3. Most kids in South America play for fun and develop their technical skills and soccer IQ on their own as young as age 5. Kids play every day in the street, before school, during school, after school. During my summer days, we played all day from 10am to midnight. We learned the technical skills by playing on asphalt, in between cars, and plenty of 3 v 3's and 5 v 5's. We developed our skills by trying out tricks and playing for fun. No coaches or parents telling us what to do.

4. The USA is a consumer first soccer environment. If Dad thinks his/her little child is awesome, that kid gets pushed to flight 1, ecnl, ecrl, da, mls next. People make up leagues to get their little ones in the top teams. We live in an entitled society (Especially in the OC and SD).

5. The moment our USWNT starts losing to the rest of the world, we will finally begin to see changes to the youth programs. European countries are catching up to the US but they still have a good 4 years to go.

Finally, this is great that we are finally talking about soccer in this forum!! It's about time.

Certainly some cultural elements that we may only achieve over time if they're achievable at all. We certainly don't put a lot of value in "free play". A problem that is compounded by too many joysticking coaches, in part, because parents think their child is only getting proper training if the coach is incessantly shouting commands from the sideline. We can't allow our kids to make wrong decisions on the pitch, it could cost the team a game.

 

[El Clasico]

Please stop bs, if you never lived in Europe or never experienced playing at local soccer club refrain from making s up! if you did play as a kid in European academy system (in any EU or non-EU country) do entertain me with your first hand experience, please.

You go first

 

[happy9]

Certainly some cultural elements that we may only achieve over time if they're achievable at all. We certainly don't put a lot of value in "free play". A problem that is compounded by too many joysticking coaches, in part, because parents think their child is only getting proper training if the coach is incessantly shouting commands from the sideline. We can't allow our kids to make wrong decisions on the pitch, it could cost the team a game.

Culturally soccer's just not our gig. I think it's always going to play second fiddle to everything. I don't have a problem with that. I'm surprised and was sad at first that my players went from multisport athletes to just soccer. It was more of a me thing really, I used to coach them in other sports. Now I've been sitting on the sidelines, which is not a bad thing and less stressful. I don't always have to pay attention and don't even have to go if I don't want to.

Soccer is now their thing and their hard work is paying off. You nailed it in regards to parents feeling like the only quality training that occurs is under the close advisement of a coach. Just the way it is. It's good for the business of youth soccer and required for the way we consume soccer.