How will this affect womens sports in college?

I’d be so bummed for my daughter to get cut or lose time to a biological male turned female.
Id also be so bummed for my transgendered child to be excluded from a team because of this issue.

I don’t have a perfect solution but what has led me to keep posting on this thread is the utter lack of empathy.

I know two families personally who have faced this and it’s been incredibly difficult. One is a sports family and the marriage didn’t make it and a spot on a competitive team was nowhere on the list of priorities. Should the local club have asked for documentation and doctors input that this was indeed an issue? Idk maybe? Or take an extra player on the team? Idk?

the kids on the team btw were all fine. Happy for the now girl to be a part of the team. They knew her as a boy and handled it amazingly.

it’s obviously more an issue as the sports get more competitive. Solutions are tough for sure.

O.k. Here's my take which is likely to make me unpopular with either side but it means I'm probably on to something. And I say this as someone with a bit of background in this situation being LGBTQ myself, and having a relative who is T.

Firstly, sports is never fair. My son is August birthday and a GK. He was the tallest in his age group, but when they moved around the age groups he has to compete now against kids with 6 months growth on him. He's in the 75% of height for males, so not a short keeper by any means, but still that 6 months makes a huge difference. He also wound up losing a year of development when they changed the years. Similarly, if there are any girls on your teams with a mix of chromosomes (like the xxy) , or if they just happen to be genetically early bloomers and towered over their teammates when they were 10, or even if they are over 6 ft, there's nothing fair about that either.

What's "fair" or "unfair" here is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Any fidgeting of the rules will produce winners and losers, since there are finite places on a team. It's not "fair" if your DD gets cut from their dream team because somebody who looks like a guy walks in from tryouts and just blows away everyone even the strongest girls. It's not "fair" either to send the trans kid who has behaved as a girl since they were 8 and is on hormone blockers to compete against 18 year guys. Start from the position there is no "fairness" here. Also start from the position that I have yet to see a dude decide he wants to compete in women's sports just to gain a scholarship or trophy (though it also wouldn't surprise me to eventually see one or two).

For 10 years or so, before the woke knives came out, we had the NCAA standards. They, IIRC, required an athlete to be on hormones before being allowed to compete with the other sex. They worked for a long time before politics overwhelmed this issue.

Knowing that no solution can ever be perfect, and understanding we have to try to take into account the concerns of all participants, I'd think a siding scale is the most appropriate scale. For youth rec, who cares. I once had to referee an AYSO game with a kid who was MTF, 9 years old or so, playing with the girls. Very sweet kid, somewhat in love with the attention being given, and could not see that child playing with the boys and not getting hurt and/or bullied. For youth club sports, it's tricky because it's at an age before hormones are advised, but I can see a rule where hormones and/or testosterone blockers are required for some length of time, but the rules should be less stringent since it is a team sport and the contribution of any 1 athlete is limited. For individual youth sports, because the performance is so dependent on the performance of an athlete a stricter rule is called for. For college athletics, the rules should be even stricter and require a prolonged period on hormone blockers and estrogen, plus either a transition or an active moment towards transition within the coming months For Olympic level competition, it wouldn't be unreasonable to require the transition to have occurred.

None of this is entirely "fair" to anyone. But it recognizes there are competing concerns on both ends of the spectrum. Whether or not a transition really makes someone a "real boy" or "real girl" is besides the point here...who cares....it's all about definitional nonsense either....and no a transition does not make you magically into a biological female. We need to balance compassion on one end of the spectrum with fairness on the other, knowing that "fairness" is impossible to achieve in sports. We were headed in that direction before politics inserted its dirty nose into this issue.
 
"For the first two years after starting hormones, the trans women in their review were able to do 10 percent more pushups and 6 percent more situps than their cisgender female counterparts."

"Their running times declined as well, but two years on, trans women were still 12 percent faster on the 1.5 mile-run than their cisgender peers."


 
Now in the US and many places people talk about putting men on hormone drugs to reduce their levels of testosterone.

This is the level currently used to allow men to play in many women's sports: 10 nmol/L

By way of comparison most women fall in the range of 0.35 - 2.43 nmol/L

So even after taking drugs to reduce the advantage that men have, transgenders have significantly more vs women. That makes a difference.

Some world sports bodies now say 5 nmol/L to play in women's sports.

Again that is more than double what most women actually have.

Even with the drugs it isn't a fair playing field.
 
O.k. Here's my take which is likely to make me unpopular with either side but it means I'm probably on to something. And I say this as someone with a bit of background in this situation being LGBTQ myself, and having a relative who is T.

Firstly, sports is never fair. My son is August birthday and a GK. He was the tallest in his age group, but when they moved around the age groups he has to compete now against kids with 6 months growth on him. He's in the 75% of height for males, so not a short keeper by any means, but still that 6 months makes a huge difference. He also wound up losing a year of development when they changed the years. Similarly, if there are any girls on your teams with a mix of chromosomes (like the xxy) , or if they just happen to be genetically early bloomers and towered over their teammates when they were 10, or even if they are over 6 ft, there's nothing fair about that either.

What's "fair" or "unfair" here is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Any fidgeting of the rules will produce winners and losers, since there are finite places on a team. It's not "fair" if your DD gets cut from their dream team because somebody who looks like a guy walks in from tryouts and just blows away everyone even the strongest girls. It's not "fair" either to send the trans kid who has behaved as a girl since they were 8 and is on hormone blockers to compete against 18 year guys. Start from the position there is no "fairness" here. Also start from the position that I have yet to see a dude decide he wants to compete in women's sports just to gain a scholarship or trophy (though it also wouldn't surprise me to eventually see one or two).

For 10 years or so, before the woke knives came out, we had the NCAA standards. They, IIRC, required an athlete to be on hormones before being allowed to compete with the other sex. They worked for a long time before politics overwhelmed this issue.

Knowing that no solution can ever be perfect, and understanding we have to try to take into account the concerns of all participants, I'd think a siding scale is the most appropriate scale. For youth rec, who cares. I once had to referee an AYSO game with a kid who was MTF, 9 years old or so, playing with the girls. Very sweet kid, somewhat in love with the attention being given, and could not see that child playing with the boys and not getting hurt and/or bullied. For youth club sports, it's tricky because it's at an age before hormones are advised, but I can see a rule where hormones and/or testosterone blockers are required for some length of time, but the rules should be less stringent since it is a team sport and the contribution of any 1 athlete is limited. For individual youth sports, because the performance is so dependent on the performance of an athlete a stricter rule is called for. For college athletics, the rules should be even stricter and require a prolonged period on hormone blockers and estrogen, plus either a transition or an active moment towards transition within the coming months For Olympic level competition, it wouldn't be unreasonable to require the transition to have occurred.

None of this is entirely "fair" to anyone. But it recognizes there are competing concerns on both ends of the spectrum. Whether or not a transition really makes someone a "real boy" or "real girl" is besides the point here...who cares....it's all about definitional nonsense either....and no a transition does not make you magically into a biological female. We need to balance compassion on one end of the spectrum with fairness on the other, knowing that "fairness" is impossible to achieve in sports. We were headed in that direction before politics inserted its dirty nose into this issue.
I think you’re asking more from hormone blockers than they can provide. They do not appear to create a level playing field, or even come close.

Even after transition, the XY person still has very significant athletic advantges over the XX person.

It would be nice if it did. We could all feel great about being inclusive. But that isn’t the way biology works.
 
I think you’re asking more from hormone blockers than they can provide. They do not appear to create a level playing field, or even come close.

Even after transition, the XY person still has very significant athletic advantges over the XX person.

It would be nice if it did. We could all feel great about being inclusive. But that isn’t the way biology works.

No, I recognize the limitation. But I also recognize we aren't going to get to perfect fairness here either. There isn't a perfect here. It's a balancing between inclusiveness and fairness concerns. It's not fair either that the kid at 12 years old who is 6 foot gets to play against the other boys who are all barely 5, but we still let them play too. To the extent steps can be taken to mitigate the imbalance they should (as well as make sure that the athlete is serious about their goal).

p.s. it's hilarious I'm more woke on this issue than you, isn't it?

p.p.s. I'm frankly surprised to see you posting on the issue too (though I appreciate the independence of thought). Would have thought you'd be afraid of being cancelled by your own side.
 
No, I recognize the limitation. But I also recognize we aren't going to get to perfect fairness here either. There isn't a perfect here. It's a balancing between inclusiveness and fairness concerns. It's not fair either that the kid at 12 years old who is 6 foot gets to play against the other boys who are all barely 5, but we still let them play too. To the extent steps can be taken to mitigate the imbalance they should (as well as make sure that the athlete is serious about their goal).

p.s. it's hilarious I'm more woke on this issue than you, isn't it?

p.p.s. I'm frankly surprised to see you posting on the issue too (though I appreciate the independence of thought). Would have thought you'd be afraid of being cancelled by your own side.
Fairness in any sports is very subjective. I have seen girls playing with boys who are clearly better than boys. I have seen freshmen playing Varsity in HS who is clearly better than varsity players. It's all about ability, physiology, hard work and talent - not gender related.
 
No, I recognize the limitation. But I also recognize we aren't going to get to perfect fairness here either. There isn't a perfect here. It's a balancing between inclusiveness and fairness concerns. It's not fair either that the kid at 12 years old who is 6 foot gets to play against the other boys who are all barely 5, but we still let them play too. To the extent steps can be taken to mitigate the imbalance they should (as well as make sure that the athlete is serious about their goal).

p.s. it's hilarious I'm more woke on this issue than you, isn't it?

p.p.s. I'm frankly surprised to see you posting on the issue too (though I appreciate the independence of thought). Would have thought you'd be afraid of being cancelled by your own side.
I wouldn’t be strict on it if I thought other people would move a trans athlete to the boys side when they begin to dominate on the girls side.

Unfortunately, that does not appear to be how people work. Most want to win, and will leave a dominant player on the field long after it’s clear they are ruining the game for the other players.
 
I wouldn’t be strict on it if I thought other people would move a trans athlete to the boys side when they begin to dominate on the girls side.

Unfortunately, that does not appear to be how people work. Most want to win, and will leave a dominant player on the field long after it’s clear they are ruining the game for the other players.

Oh I'd be in favor of the reverse too. Testosterone is clearly a performance enhancing drug. But then I think the higher level teams should be screening for performance drugs too at the higher teen levels.

p.s. it's even funnier for this structure you are going with the "people aren't angels" argument, when I've put that to you about the lockdowns forever.
 
Curious how this will affect female college athletes? How would you feel if your daughter missed her opportunity to play college soccer because of this new change?View attachment 9985

Now that college soccer season is starting up, it’s probably a good time to evaluate whether college sports has been “eviscerated” yet. Is anyone seeing transgender athletes “eviscerating” the college soccer landscape? I mean, these transgender rules have been in place for over a decade, so presumably we’d know by now right? Or is Abigail Shrier just trying to scare the trumpanzee buffoonery into losing their collective snowflakey minds over a non-issue?
 
Now that college soccer season is starting up, it’s probably a good time to evaluate whether college sports has been “eviscerated” yet. Is anyone seeing transgender athletes “eviscerating” the college soccer landscape? I mean, these transgender rules have been in place for over a decade, so presumably we’d know by now right? Or is Abigail Shrier just trying to scare the trumpanzee buffoonery into losing their collective snowflakey minds over a non-issue?
You are really looking hard for any type interaction aren't you. Do you have anyone else besides this board you can confide in? I worry for you. You are reaching and you look very desperate!!
 
You are really looking hard for any type interaction aren't you. Do you have anyone else besides this board you can confide in? I worry for you. You are reaching and you look very desperate!!

Let me make sure I have your point of view correct. When people make gratuitous bigoted comments about transgender athletes “eviscerating” women’s sports, that’s not trolling, but pointing out how ludicrous their statements are is trolling, in your opinion?

So, in other words, anyone who disagrees with your magat perspective is a troll? When someone points out that your ridiculously stupid predictions about the future have not been born out, that is trolling?

Like all trumpanzees, Snowflake just wants to say stupid s**t without accountability.
 
Lurked forever but finally have to post. I have a transgender daughter, biologically male. She has started hormone treatments. She loves sports, and doesn't care about winning or losing, just wants to play. We decided it was not safe for her to play on male teams because she has been physically assualted, targeted and severly bullied in the past. she plays two sports with other girls. She fits in with other girls. Our experience is that the girls do not care at all; they like her. It is youth sports. The people who care that much are smart enough to keep it to themselves to our faces, I guess, because they know how pathetic it sounds to be that worked up about chiuldren's sports. She does not plan to compete in college, but if she did I assume the governing bodies would mandate hormone testing or whatever else could keep an even playing field. As far as elementary, middle chool and high school sports are concerned, though, anyone who wants to sideline these kids is just pathetic. The other kids don't care. It is small minded parents who do.
Great to see your kid is getting to play. The reaction to this is pathetic, agree with you on that.

I know my son regularly plays against boys who are many inches taller and 40+ pounds heavier, and likewise with my daughter. I don't hear any of those parents complaining about their kids having a physical advantage because they were "fortunate" that their kids hit puberty sooner (more so than genetics) but I guess it will eventually even out.

I have seen a girl, who identified as a boy, play on a U15 boys team and the boys were cool with it, so agree with you that the kids could care less. The parents were surprised at first and then just shrugged and carried on.

I see many refs to elite level & college, but less to the fact that if a kid gets dropped, then that kid was #18 on the roster and at best marginally elite (hint, if you're #18 on the roster in the eyes of the coach on an elite team, move ...). My view is that if your kid isn't a starter then the coach is looking to replace them. If your kid is a starter, then you have nothing to worry about.
 
Let me make sure I have your point of view correct. When people make gratuitous bigoted comments about transgender athletes “eviscerating” women’s sports, that’s not trolling, but pointing out how ludicrous their statements are is trolling, in your opinion?

So, in other words, anyone who disagrees with your magat perspective is a troll? When someone points out that your ridiculously stupid predictions about the future have not been born out, that is trolling?

Like all trumpanzees, Snowflake just wants to say stupid s**t without accountability.

You actually missed it. I'll set you straight, people haven't been responding to your post so you go back to a comment made on Feb 18th, weeks ago, and try to get someone to bite... presumably because you have nobody else to talk to...how about go outside and kick the ball around with your kid? You'd rather be online all day? You need people to respond to you because you are unfulfilled and you need something to fill that time and space, very sad...It has nothing to do with peoples gratuitous bigoted comments, but because you have nothing better to do, you try to instigate, best part is, people on this board are getting tired of responding to you, because you have nothing original to bring. You keep going back to the same stuff over and over. Totally like CNN, NBC, all those networks, turn them on right now, go ahead, I don't even need to be on and I already know....they are talking about Trump, why? because, like you they cant see beyond their own shadow and are incapable of having any deep rhetoric, so they keep repeating themselves, just like you!!!
 
You actually missed it. I'll set you straight, people haven't been responding to your post so you go back to a comment made on Feb 18th, weeks ago, and try to get someone to bite... presumably because you have nobody else to talk to...how about go outside and kick the ball around with your kid? You'd rather be online all day? You need people to respond to you because you are unfulfilled and you need something to fill that time and space, very sad...It has nothing to do with peoples gratuitous bigoted comments, but because you have nothing better to do, you try to instigate, best part is, people on this board are getting tired of responding to you, because you have nothing original to bring. You keep going back to the same stuff over and over. Totally like CNN, NBC, all those networks, turn them on right now, go ahead, I don't even need to be on and I already know....they are talking about Trump, why? because, like you they cant see beyond their own shadow and are incapable of having any deep rhetoric, so they keep repeating themselves, just like you!!!
Clap....clap....clap.....we’ll said!
 
Great to see your kid is getting to play. The reaction to this is pathetic, agree with you on that.

I know my son regularly plays against boys who are many inches taller and 40+ pounds heavier, and likewise with my daughter. I don't hear any of those parents complaining about their kids having a physical advantage because they were "fortunate" that their kids hit puberty sooner (more so than genetics) but I guess it will eventually even out.

I have seen a girl, who identified as a boy, play on a U15 boys team and the boys were cool with it, so agree with you that the kids could care less. The parents were surprised at first and then just shrugged and carried on.

I see many refs to elite level & college, but less to the fact that if a kid gets dropped, then that kid was #18 on the roster and at best marginally elite (hint, if you're #18 on the roster in the eyes of the coach on an elite team, move ...). My view is that if your kid isn't a starter then the coach is looking to replace them. If your kid is a starter, then you have nothing to worry about.
Starting 10. The gkers, regardless of their skill level, unless they are the top 5 kids in region, are also always vulnerable to getting replaced if someone better comes along, regardless of whether they are the starter or substitute. On the girls side the only thing that stops this from happening more often is the goalkeeper shortage. On the us pro side, the salary caps limit things since only so much money is available after the other key roles have been signed. The gk also makes a ready scapegoat if the team isn’t doing well and the coach wants to deflect responsibility.
 
In addition to about half the U Dub players being kneelers, almost all the Cal and Oregon St players are too. It must be a sad life knowing the bigotry you love so much is losing.

I stand for the flag and kneel for the cross along with 74 million others....lol
 
Back
Top