D1 college soccer under threat

Woobie06 said:
Fair enough. I think we are in different lanes. For our DD the end goal (can’t speak for others) is this helps her get into a university suited for her to get her started on her adult journey. The goal is for her get a quality education, build a life, family, and career. Professional soccer is not even a thought. If the unlikely opportunity did come, maybe help subsidize her for a year or two for the experience. It’s a hard way to make a living and not much money in the Women’s game, yet. $50k Max and $20k Min for the NWSL, do the international leagues pay better? I don’t know. Hopefully that changes for those that want to pursue it. The pro pathway on the women’s side just seems like a very tough road and there are many more financially rewarding options available. Best wishes to you are your DD working toward and achieving the goal of going pro.
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I understand all this more. We all come from different lanes too. Interesting topic about college life and soccer. The top, top players probably need to find something else quickly after HS School. I really like the club idea for college. Let the top players play pro and also go to college for free some how. That will off set a parent having to pay so the kid can be a pro. Free college and a few bucks playing with the best of the best around the world. The goal for my dd is to also be the best she can be at the highest level of soccer in the USA and it's a mess. I like the idea of going to a college game but now days it seems like it will get cut. I would be sad but it is what it is. Like I said a million times, I was all about the pros.
 
MacDre said:
So if 90% or more don’t play after college, why not focus on school and play soccer for fun? Playing D1 soccer is not a prerequisite for attending university. Parents can still show up to their kids pick up games and cheer them on. They can live vicariously through their kid getting a degree and achieving their primary goal.
Basketball and football are self sustaining and athletes get full scholarships. I believe scholarship money for soccer is provided by basketball and football so the analysis is very different. I personally find it disturbing that the sports that are dominated by black athletes are subsidizing sports dominated by white athletes that are from communities that have traditionally excluded black people.
I think a system that is good for development is one that actually adheres to the rules of the game and doesn’t have unlimited substitutions. I think college soccer sufficed previously because the world is so sexist and the US was one of the few places supporting women.
I get that there’s no money in women’s soccer but who cares if it makes a young lady happy. I also know several broke lawyers, so maybe we should advise against law school too? I personally believe that if a person focuses on what they love that the money will come because it makes the heavy lifting easier.
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Does it bother you that white students subsidize a free education for black kids that would otherwise not attend college at all or play professionally if it weren't for football or that extended education of 1 year of basketball? Are you kidding me?
 
dad4 said:
To be fair, I have a hard time justifying the use of student fees to support athletics. Raises the cost to those who just want a degree.

I did play a sport during college, and had a great time. But I don't see how most other students benefited from my use of their fees.
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You would think that most students would feel the same way but in 2016 UCSD students voted by a 3:1 margin to double the fees to move from D2 to D1.
 
The Outlaw said:
Does it bother you that white students subsidize a free education for black kids that would otherwise not attend college at all or play professionally if it weren't for football or that extended education of 1 year of basketball? Are you kidding me?
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I’m confused. I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
MacDre said:
I’m confused. I have no idea what you are talking about.
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This... this is what I'm talking about: "I personally find it disturbing that the sports that are dominated by black athletes are subsidizing sports dominated by white athletes that are from communities that have traditionally excluded black people."

For starters, how do you know where kids are from? And who is excluding black people? Which communities? If we're talking about basketball, because that's really the only one dominated by black athletes (football to some extent), let's cut right to the chase. How many black college basketball players would gain admission to a 4-year university at all... let alone on someone else's dime? And don't tell me "people pay to see Deandre Ayton." Yeah, they pay to watch these guys play 1 year. How many actually graduate? Who is buying the tickets to watch them? The same white families that traditionally exclude them? Who paid Deandre's way from the Bahamas to a prep school in San Diego... then Phoenix... because his step dad is a plumber? Probably some evil white guy paid the check for that, right?

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/graduation-rates-black-players-power-schools/story?id=53668482
 
The Outlaw said:
This... this is what I'm talking about: "I personally find it disturbing that the sports that are dominated by black athletes are subsidizing sports dominated by white athletes that are from communities that have traditionally excluded black people."

For starters, how do you know where kids are from? And who is excluding black people? Which communities? If we're talking about basketball, because that's really the only one dominated by black athletes (football to some extent), let's cut right to the chase. How many black college basketball players would gain admission to a 4-year university at all... let alone on someone else's dime? And don't tell me "people pay to see Deandre Ayton." Yeah, they pay to watch these guys play 1 year. How many actually graduate? Who is buying the tickets to watch them? The same white families that traditionally exclude them? Who paid Deandre's way from the Bahamas to a prep school in San Diego... then Phoenix... because his step dad is a plumber? Probably some evil white guy paid the check for that, right?

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/graduation-rates-black-players-power-schools/story?id=53668482
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Damn homie, do you need a hug? I’ll be more clear.
I’m advocating for low income folks. The white dudes in my hood ride Harley’s, are full patched, and many live in trailer parks. They don’t drive BMW’s or sip expensive lattes. I’m actually an expert at college admissions for poor folks and first generation college students. And poor whites comprise the largest segment of this group. However, it’s more difficult to put together a solid package for a poor white kid because many affluent whites already attend college.

It pisses me off a little that kids from Schools like Mission San Jose, Monte vista, and Piedmont are taking college spots away from white kid’s in Vallejo and Rodeo that live in trailer parks only because their parents can afford to “pad” their college applications by paying for club soccer.

It further pisses me off that there are not any solid soccer options in my community along HWY 80. Vallejo, Rodeo, Richmond, S. Berkeley, and Oakland because those majority white communities with better funded schools are seen as profitable. To add insult to injury universities pimp kids from communities similar to those along the 80 to raise funds for programs to support communities that have neglected them their entire life-why is this okay? Outlaw, why are soccer clubs/pay to upgrade your university type options only available in uber rich areas?
 
dad4 said:
To be fair, I have a hard time justifying the use of student fees to support athletics. Raises the cost to those who just want a degree.

I did play a sport during college, and had a great time. But I don't see how most other students benefited from my use of their fees.
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In the two examples I have learned about, UC Davis and UCSD, the students voted for the fees as part of the process of transitioning from D2 to D1.
 
The Outlaw said:
This... this is what I'm talking about: "I personally find it disturbing that the sports that are dominated by black athletes are subsidizing sports dominated by white athletes that are from communities that have traditionally excluded black people."

For starters, how do you know where kids are from? And who is excluding black people? Which communities? If we're talking about basketball, because that's really the only one dominated by black athletes (football to some extent), let's cut right to the chase. How many black college basketball players would gain admission to a 4-year university at all... let alone on someone else's dime? And don't tell me "people pay to see Deandre Ayton." Yeah, they pay to watch these guys play 1 year. How many actually graduate? Who is buying the tickets to watch them? The same white families that traditionally exclude them? Who paid Deandre's way from the Bahamas to a prep school in San Diego... then Phoenix... because his step dad is a plumber? Probably some evil white guy paid the check for that, right?

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/graduation-rates-black-players-power-schools/story?id=53668482
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For men’s basketball and football, call it what it is: a minor league. Then pay the players.

For non-money sports, at least ask what can be done to lower the expenses. I’m still wondering why it makes sense for Stanford to play Penn in anything. At best, it is $20,000 in plane tickets for a not very good game. Add in what boosters spend, and it is a lot more.
 
espola said:
In the two examples I have learned about, UC Davis and UCSD, the students voted for the fees as part of the process of transitioning from D2 to D1.
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I think this had more to do with football and basketball. Also UCD and UCSD are great schools and have many #1 programs. I think these students were aiming to get the same notoriety and portability of their degrees as UCLA and Cal have through their D1 programs.
 
MacDre said:
Damn homie, do you need a hug? I’ll be more clear.
I’m advocating for low income folks. The white dudes in my hood ride Harley’s, are full patched, and many live in trailer parks. They don’t drive BMW’s or sip expensive lattes. I’m actually an expert at college admissions for poor folks and first generation college students. And poor whites comprise the largest segment of this group. However, it’s more difficult to put together a solid package for a poor white kid because many affluent whites already attend college.

It pisses me off a little that kids from Schools like Mission San Jose, Monte vista, and Piedmont are taking college spots away from white kid’s in Vallejo and Rodeo that live in trailer parks only because their parents can afford to “pad” their college applications by paying for club soccer.

It further pisses me off that there are not any solid soccer options in my community along HWY 80. Vallejo, Rodeo, Richmond, S. Berkeley, and Oakland because those majority white communities with better funded schools are seen as profitable. To add insult to injury universities pimp kids from communities similar to those along the 80 to raise funds for programs to support communities that have neglected them their entire life-why is this okay? Outlaw, why are soccer clubs/pay to upgrade your university type options only available in uber rich areas?
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To be fair, club soccer as a college fund is a sucker’s bet.

If you don’t believe me, add up total soccer scholarship money per year for all schools. Then add up total club fees per year for all clubs. It’s not even close.

As for admissions, if your goal is getting into college and doing well there, hitting the books seems a lot more direct.
 
dad4 said:
To be fair, club soccer as a college fund is a sucker’s bet.

If you don’t believe me, add up total soccer scholarship money per year for all schools. Then add up total club fees per year for all clubs. It’s not even close.

As for admissions, if your goal is getting into college and doing well there, hitting the books seems a lot more direct.
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Yeah but for poor first generation college students getting into a elite school is like winning the lottery. As long as they graduate. They don’t have to finish at the top of their class.
Also, many of the kids who are padding their applications don’t need to because they have college educated parents and a strong network. Poor kids need elite schools to build a network and attain cultural capital.

I’m more concerned about the lack of opportunities for certain communities. I also understand that the money available through soccer is nominal, I just wanted to point out the institutionalized classism in the process and to note that the college admissions game is not a meritocracy.
 
MacDre said:
Yeah but for poor first generation college students getting into a elite school is like winning the lottery. As long as they graduate. They don’t have to finish at the top of their class.
Also, many of the kids who are padding their applications don’t need to because they have college educated parents and a strong network. Poor kids need elite schools to build a network and attain cultural capital.

I’m more concerned about the lack of opportunities for certain communities. I also understand that the money available through soccer is nominal, I just wanted to point out the institutionalized classism in the process and to note that the college admissions game is not a meritocracy.
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I also agree hitting the books is fundamental!
 
MacDre said:
Damn homie, do you need a hug? I’ll be more clear.
I’m advocating for low income folks. The white dudes in my hood ride Harley’s, are full patched, and many live in trailer parks. They don’t drive BMW’s or sip expensive lattes. I’m actually an expert at college admissions for poor folks and first generation college students. And poor whites comprise the largest segment of this group. However, it’s more difficult to put together a solid package for a poor white kid because many affluent whites already attend college.

It pisses me off a little that kids from Schools like Mission San Jose, Monte vista, and Piedmont are taking college spots away from white kid’s in Vallejo and Rodeo that live in trailer parks only because their parents can afford to “pad” their college applications by paying for club soccer.

It further pisses me off that there are not any solid soccer options in my community along HWY 80. Vallejo, Rodeo, Richmond, S. Berkeley, and Oakland because those majority white communities with better funded schools are seen as profitable. To add insult to injury universities pimp kids from communities similar to those along the 80 to raise funds for programs to support communities that have neglected them their entire life-why is this okay? Outlaw, why are soccer clubs/pay to upgrade your university type options only available in uber rich areas?
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So you think kids in Vallejo and Rodeo, living in trailer parks, could afford college without someone else paying the tuition (scholarship)? College isn't an entitlement. Lots of people would love to live in Atherton but can't because they can't afford it. Lots of people would love to drive an $80k car but can't because they can't afford it. Where do you draw the line? Life isn't fair. And ask yourself this, Dre... what happens if everyone has access to college. What does that do to the value of a degree? What happens when you make things free and easily attainable? Does that mean a company only has to now offer $40k, instead of $60k a year, because they have 50 qualified applicants instead of 10? You need balance. It's not fair, but these idiots that want to make college free haven't considered what that does to the big picture. And tell me how many kids aren't getting into colleges because athletes, who otherwise have ZERO shot at getting into that school, take their spots and aren't paying anything? It works both ways. Your point about padding college applications, in my opinion, isn't valid.

How do you call comp soccer "pimping"? I have no sympathy for parents that are upset about the DA collapsing. They knew that was a risk and were willing to pay to send a 13-year old to other states to play a game. Really? That's ALL about ego and nothing else. But they elected to do it and nobody was blindsided by the rules. And there's only a few of us idiots left thinking a college scholarship of $5k per year will somehow compensate for the $75k we paid for 10 years of comp. You're also ignoring the fact that California soccer rosters, especially men's, are full of Hispanic kids that wouldn't be going to Cal or Davis or Santa Barbara, etc if it weren't for soccer. The grades were there but the funding wasn't. I can't speak to other regions but it's the case here. Soccer can open doors for everyone and that's not pimping. So are you NOW saying it pisses you off there's no pimping available on HWY 80?
 
MacDre said:
Yeah but for poor first generation college students getting into a elite school is like winning the lottery. As long as they graduate. They don’t have to finish at the top of their class.
Also, many of the kids who are padding their applications don’t need to because they have college educated parents and a strong network. Poor kids need elite schools to build a network and attain cultural capital.

I’m more concerned about the lack of opportunities for certain communities. I also understand that the money available through soccer is nominal, I just wanted to point out the institutionalized classism in the process and to note that the college admissions game is not a meritocracy.
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Is there evidence that D1 sports scholarships work out for lower income students who don’t go pro?

My impression was that, for a lot of them, they aren’t ready for the classes at that school and end up with no degree. Or, if they get a degree, it is in a field with few job prospects.
 
MacDre said:
Yeah but for poor first generation college students getting into a elite school is like winning the lottery. As long as they graduate. They don’t have to finish at the top of their class.
Also, many of the kids who are padding their applications don’t need to because they have college educated parents and a strong network. Poor kids need elite schools to build a network and attain cultural capital.

I’m more concerned about the lack of opportunities for certain communities. I also understand that the money available through soccer is nominal, I just wanted to point out the institutionalized classism in the process and to note that the college admissions game is not a meritocracy.
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If it truly was a meritocracy, fewer people of color would be admitted. College Sports recruiting and Affirmative action allow for certain people of color the opportunity to attend certain colleges. Of course there is a debate on whether that is fair or not.
 
MSK357 said:
If it truly was a meritocracy, fewer people of color would be admitted. College Sports recruiting and Affirmative action allow for certain people of color the opportunity to attend certain colleges. Of course there is a debate on whether that is fair or not.
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Please elaborate.
 
MacDre said:
I think I’d be okay if college soccer disappeared forever because I do not see the benefit. The games are not entertaining. The style of play is not good for development. Most people on this forum openly admit that it’s about the university and not soccer so, those folks can play club soccer in college and focus on academics.
Also, MLS/NWSL would be forced to figure out a better development pathway for kids who’s priority is soccer if college soccer goes away. Could someone please tell why loosing college soccer is a bad thing? Are people just scared of change?
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Seriously?? If you are of that mind set, then all athletic programs should be cut. Heck, we don't need any athletic programs professional or otherwise. I don't find many of the other sports to be entertaining. We don't "need" the NFL, AFL, NBA, NWSL, MLS, or any European football leagues, etc. etc. etc. to stay alive. There is no benefit to the public other than entertainment. Sure it provides a career for some, but then again, maybe they should focus on academics in college. We should only focus on things that keep us alive. Heck, we don't need the music industry, we don't need "entertainment" by musicians and singers. Let's all focus on education and people that keep us alive. If you don't find college soccer entertaining, that's fine. Don't watch. If you don't find this forum entertaining, don't read it.
 
dad4 said:
Is there evidence that D1 sports scholarships work out for lower income students who don’t go pro?

My impression was that, for a lot of them, they aren’t ready for the classes at that school and end up with no degree. Or, if they get a degree, it is in a field with few job prospects.
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That’s goes to the part of neglected communities and underfunded schools. But take me for example. I had a young drug addicted mother and no father. I grew up in the midst of the North Richmond Project Trojans. I did well enough in college because of the support of the McNair Scholars program. By time I graduated from UCD my research was being used to overturn 3 strikes legislation.
I went to Hastings and Na’il Benjamin was my roommate. Hannibal and Marshawn are intelligent too. Lot’s of smart folks in the hood that just need support.
 
Copa9 said:
Seriously?? If you are of that mind set, then all athletic programs should be cut. Heck, we don't need any athletic programs professional or otherwise. I don't find many of the other sports to be entertaining. We don't "need" the NFL, AFL, NBA, NWSL, MLS, or any European football leagues, etc. etc. etc. to stay alive. There is no benefit to the public other than entertainment. Sure it provides a career for some, but then again, maybe they should focus on academics in college. We should only focus on things that keep us alive. Heck, we don't need the music industry, we don't need "entertainment" by musicians and singers. Let's all focus on education and people that keep us alive. If you don't find college soccer entertaining, that's fine. Don't watch. If you don't find this forum entertaining, don't read it.
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You have the right to choose the sports that you do and don’t like. I happen to like soccer. However, I was very disappointed with the level of play and entertainment factor. This doesn’t apply to all soccer but I don’t like college soccer. Sorry.
 
MacDre said:
You have the right to choose the sports that you do and don’t like. I happen to like soccer. However, I was very disappointed with the level of play and entertainment factor. This doesn’t apply to all soccer but I don’t like college soccer. Sorry.
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MacDre, you seem like a bright guy with some good insights, but your view on this issue is pretty cynical and self-centered. The fact that you only see benefit in those college sports that you find “entertaining” is missing the point. The value of those programs are much farther reaching than that. So few kids that play any sport in college go on to play professionally, so why is their continued development in college even a requirement?
 
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