Is DA done?

[jpeter]

In SoCal, I expect the new USYS venture is primarily for the girls DA clubs that aren't going to ECNL. It doesn't look like too many boys DA teams aren't already going to ECNL, the MLS league, or the USL league. If one formed, it seems like it would be San Diego and Arizona-oriented (although it might make more sense for those former AZ DA teams to join Boys ECNL and create a robust AZ section with the pre-existing four Boys ECNL teams in AZ).

Clubs putting DA teams in ECNL (or already had Boys ECNL too)

SD Surf
LA Surf
Real SoCal
FC Golden State
Legends
West Coast (OC Surf)
Pateadores
Strikers
Arsenal

Clubs putting DA teams in MLS operated league (some just rumored)

LA Galaxy
LAFC
LAUFA
TFA
Albion
Nomads

Clubs possibly putting DA teams in USL League

VC Fusion

Unknown and therefore candidates for a possible USYSA Elite league

Santa Barbara
San Diego SC
Murrieta Surf
City San Diego (LA Galaxy SD)
Chula Vista
Arizona DA teams?

It's not one for one or one for all either can be in both. They will be at least 2 that are planning both from what I've been told.

Don't forget there can be cross play among the leagues now. Both ECNL and MLS/USYS have came out and said they will be "scheduling" games between clubs in each. Is that friendly games, tournaments or what exactly don't know yet?

 

[thedudeabides]

For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams. The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.

What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams. Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL. The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.

Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.

There are several club teams in California that can beat the earthquakes and galaxy academy squads. The bottom 4-5 non-mls DA's were bad in SoCal. They aren't even top 50 in socal and the disparities between mls and non mls da's in other parts of the country are even more pronounced. Most of these non mls da's were simply being used so the mls da's didn't have to fly all over the place. The best club teams against the mls academies is the best approach if they make it promotion/relegation.

 

[Zvezdas]

Based on our club meeting there is no prom/rel for boys ecnl for 2020/21.

 

[soccerfan123]

I think the theory is that LV and PHX/TUC are close enough and they are used to the longer travel. Just my thought. We travel to Surf 5.5hrs. Man City etc. For us Phx/Tuc is 6hrs or a 45min flight. You socal people would die being in a car in a desert for that long. That is a joke but there are a lot of complaints about travel. As for why the did what they did in CA is you all are at most traveling 4.5hrs or so. Balanced travel time I guess. If you look now in the ECNL age groups southwest used to be two divisioned prior to their recent change. PHX and RSZ AZ were tops in 03 for the last two years their other teams are quality too. why are they in t2?

As for the Championship qualifying, it was supposed to be the top 5 at 03 this year. Yes at the composite it becomes one but all of that has changed year to year to tweak things. I assume more tweaks to scheduling and qualifying are going to occur.

Again if it is super important to be in a top tier then great. Like I said, I have been happy with the exposure this year and South Carolina would have been really good too. My son loves the league and has friends at most of the teams across the landscape. I hope that continues as we head into what could be his last season.

I do not think its tiers, it is regional grouping I thought but I cud be wrong. but one group wants to skip high school season

 

[Kante]

Not really apples to apples. CSL Premier is pretty strong top to bottom where the bottom of CRL is pretty weak because teams can get a favorable pool or have a lucky weekend and qualify . CRL is also a side league like NPL so I don't really consider it because it draws from all the other leagues. I have analyzed the primary fall leagues (DA, ECNL, CSL Premier, SCDSL Discovery, and Presidio flt 1) and CSL Premier was slightly above DA and ECNL and significantly above SCDSL and Presidio in YSR composite rankings for boys teams at 3 age groups. Interestingly many of the teams that get relegated in CSL Premier are former DA teams that aged out of academy. Instead of earning it over years they get a weak pool in CRL, qualify for premier then struggle. That was a good indicator the DA's were failing in developing quality players.

Aside from all that, people need to stop thinking their letters are better. I am only making a strong statistical and anecdotal case here for CSL because they have been trashed mercilessly by the DA and ECNL snobs when real results painted a different picture. The hard truth is promotion/relegation works because the necessity to win does foster development but it negates the effects of pay to play and politics. Let me say that again, winning and development are NOT mutually exclusive.

What really needs to happen on the boys side is the top 10-15 teams from all the various leagues within a 3-5 hour drive of an MLS team should be invited to compete in a league with that MLS team. It should be a promotion/relegation system with the MLS Academy not ever getting relegated. The other team are there to support the MLS team and they should naturally be near the top because they will constantly be recruiting players from the other teams and bringing them into hopefully a residential academy structure. It's simple and it would work.

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.

 

[soccerfan123]

Based on our club meeting there is no prom/rel for boys ecnl for 2020/21.

pro - rele would be gr8 but how do you do it with different groups. bottom one from each group?.adn would it be teams or clubs? Clubs only way to organize logistically I guess

 

[soccerfan123]

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.

YSR is very inaccurate for the older ages, like 14 and older. it rewards blowing out terrible teams way to much so hard schedule teams are not rewarded unless they are so good they beat everybody

 

[Son]

Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs. They wanted to operate only U17 and U19. Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages. If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?

I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.

 

[Kante]

In SoCal, I expect the new USYS venture is primarily for the girls DA clubs that aren't going to ECNL. It doesn't look like too many boys DA teams aren't already going to ECNL, the MLS league, or the USL league. If one formed, it seems like it would be San Diego and Arizona-oriented (although it might make more sense for those former AZ DA teams to join Boys ECNL and create a robust AZ section with the pre-existing four Boys ECNL teams in AZ).

Clubs putting DA teams in ECNL (or already had Boys ECNL too)

SD Surf
LA Surf
Real SoCal
FC Golden State
Legends
West Coast (OC Surf)
Pateadores
Strikers
Arsenal

Clubs putting DA teams in MLS operated league (some just rumored)

LA Galaxy
LAFC
LAUFA
TFA
Albion
Nomads

Clubs possibly putting DA teams in USL League

VC Fusion

Unknown and therefore candidates for a possible USYSA Elite league

Santa Barbara
San Diego SC
Murrieta Surf
City San Diego (LA Galaxy SD)
Chula Vista
Arizona DA teams?

could see MLS taking TFA, and maybe Barca (their location is a tough travel)

 

[Kante]

YSR is very inaccurate for the older ages, like 14 and older. it rewards blowing out terrible teams way to much so hard schedule teams are not rewarded unless they are so good they beat everybody

are there a couple examples of this inaccuracy you could cite? eg, teams that are ranked either too low or too high?

 

[Dargle]

It's not one for one or one for all either can be in both. They will be at least 2 that are planning both from what I've been told.

Don't forget there can be cross play among the leagues now. Both ECNL and MLS/USYS have came out and said they will be "scheduling" games between clubs in each. Is that friendly games, tournaments or what exactly don't know yet?

Good point. Inter-league play would be good (and would happen anyway in tournaments when those return), but having teams in two different leagues doesn't mean that both teams would be at the same level. It may just replicate the ECNL/ECRL divide for girls and then the question will be where are the clubs putting their A team.

 

[Kante]

Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs. They wanted to operate only U17 and U19. Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages. If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?

I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.

the u16 as standalone age group is goodness.

 

[Son]

There are several club teams in California that can beat the earthquakes and galaxy academy squads. The bottom 4-5 non-mls DA's were bad in SoCal. They aren't even top 50 in socal and the disparities between mls and non mls da's in other parts of the country are even more pronounced. Most of these non mls da's were simply being used so the mls da's didn't have to fly all over the place. The best club teams against the mls academies is the best approach if they make it promotion/relegation.

Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?

 

[Bubba]

For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams. The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.

What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams. Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL. The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.

Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.

If MLS is trying to be like the r

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.

Everyone worries to much about which league your son plays. During league play its when colleges are in season. Coaches are really busy. Get on a good team with a good coach , play major touraments . Remember you are competing now with foreign players that are on every college teams also.

 

[jpeter]

the u16 as standalone age group is goodness.

MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard. Would be surprised if ECNL is any different

With calendar year and High school ages there is really not a economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out. Participation really declines once you a hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.

 

[Dargle]

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.

CSL Premier is helped by two things: (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.

Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.

 

[jpeter]

Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?

TFA yes, Barca yes but they are new. Mixed bag on the others but who knows now? going to be a shakeup & lots of movement either way.

This a lower cost leagues for those clubs and more will seek those avenues.

 

[thedudeabides]

Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.

I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.

 

[watfly]

Time will tell on which of the two programs MLS/USYS vs. ECNL will provide a better platform and be more competitive. My speculation is that both programs will have something to offer from a competitive standpoint and that it will likely vary from region. I expect that ECNL will have an easier time getting the ball rolling. However, the backing of USYS for the MLS league is a big deal. USYS is certainly more competent than US Soccer, but that's a pretty low bar. If I had to guess over the long term I think ECNL will be more competitive for the girls and USYS may be more successful for the boys. Of course, my crystal ball is really cloudy...I don't even know what day it is.

I'm curious to see how ECNL handles pro/rel...whether its team or club based.

 

[Kante]

CSL Premier is helped by two things: (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.

Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.

helpful. interesting problem to solve... given that the apple cart has been up-ended, hopefully there's an open-ness to new ideas.

for example, seems like it could now make sense to do the youth equivalent of the US Open Cup.

 

[vegasguy]

MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard. Would be surprised if ECNL is any different

With calendar year and High school ages there is really not a economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out. Participation really declines once you a hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.

With a potential delay or cancellation of college play this season and recruiting in up in the air, I could see more gap year players playing u18/u19 which would make this age group a potential fun watch.