Is DA done?

methood said:
This is just a mess.
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Why? Because they don't have every detail ironed out during a massive transition while a 100-year pandemic is going on? So parents like you and I have all of the details immediately?

Why don't we exercise some patience and see what comes out of this before passing judgment? Clearly they have some time to iron out the details, the current season is over and we are in a dead period for the foreseeable future.

By the way, I highly doubt that EVERY non-MLS DA team is offered to be in this new MLS league. Even that first tweet merely said "every former DA club will have a place to play" (paraphrasing), it didn't say where.
 
Husky13 said:
Why? Because they don't have every detail ironed out during a massive transition while a 100-year pandemic is going on? So parents like you and I have all of the details immediately?

Why don't we exercise some patience and see what comes out of this before passing judgment? Clearly they have some time to iron out the details, the current season is over and we are in a dead period for the foreseeable future.

By the way, I highly doubt that EVERY non-MLS DA team is offered to be in this new MLS league. Even that first tweet merely said "every former DA club will have a place to play" (paraphrasing), it didn't say where.
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Agreed. I'm cautiously optimistic. That said, i dont think my son has had a single year where there wasnt some massive change in club/structure/age/DA etc. Can't imagine other sports are like this. All that said, spend anytime in the Girls DA/ECNL threads and the boys side seems perfect.
 
Dargle said:
If the MLS league seems a little ad hoc and making it up as they go, that's probably because it is. That has caused some to be worried about its viability. We'll see. Even if it has lasting power, it does appear they're taking other clubs to complete the schedule rather than to upgrade the competition, which makes you wonder if those clubs/players will get the full benefits

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251161477844615173
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MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league.

On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.

At the end of the day though, it's hard not to be concerned that MLS self-interest will prevail at the expense of others.

Also, love Charles Boehm generally, but he mucked up the quote from the MLS guy. The quote was that every former DA team would "have a place to play," not that every former DA club would have a place in the MLS league.
 
Kante said:
MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league.

On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.

At the end of the day though, it's hard not to be concerned that MLS self-interest will prevail at the expense of others.

Also, love Charles Boehm generally, but he mucked up the quote from the MLS guy. The quote was that every former DA team would "have a place to play," not that every former DA club would have a place in the MLS league.
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MLS will be less inclined to self deal bc the youth soccer community is their fan base. If they are smart and trying to filter players to the MLS and expanding the MLS & its fan base, youth soccer is small potatoes and self dealing will cost them more than it's worth in the long run.

US Soccer had nothing to lose and therefore no incentive to behave better.
 
jpeter said:
They have to cut expensive and no I don't think that why they want to include non-mls, travel and other things are behind that like USYS.
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Totally agree that they always needed to include more local clubs to reduce travel, even apart from the financial crisis, although I'm sure they hoped those clubs would provide the best non-MLS teams and I don't know that they achieved that overall. Just suggesting that MLS' ability and appetite to carry the league has limits, and those limits are now greater. It will be interesting to see how they set up the fee structure for the non-MLS clubs.
 
Midas said:
Heard high school will not be an option in the MLS league
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Who is saying that? First time I've even heard that mentioned.

When youth soccer gets close to returning I'm sure we will find out the details on how organizations & leagues are going to run, the age groups, rosters, sub, out/inside comps, rules, travel, tournaments, showcases etc. Right now no body really knows, what was done in past is just that. The new landscape is shaping up to be different buts it's so fluid only time will tell.
 
jpeter said:
My advice is play soccer, gave some fun, and choose clubs, coaches, teams that are supportive and have good reputations.

The whole chase the college athletic partial scholarship for soccer deal should'nt be the focus. Your kids great grades and character will go farther in getting accepted.

The days of getting special admin due to athletics are pretty much over at the big colleges. Even at UCLA if you not in the average range of requirements they won't even give you a offer. The range for GPA for incoming freshman is 4.0 to 4.29 and you need socal and character reference or work also. If you have a 3.5 GPA and play soccer to count on offers from the the big D1 colleges they have so many possible applicants they just move on to the next.

At the better D2's 3.5gpa is possible for some schools that have lower admission standards while other require 3.7+ even the the minimum requirement is just what like a 2.2 GPA for a scholarship. D3 there are no set gpa requirements, up to schools but still have to meet the NCAA A-G course work in college.

Financial need is a big part of scholarships, example our son had offer from a pretty high profile college but it cost $55,000 a year. Coach likes him wants to make him an offer but explain to him they only get about 6 scholarships and nobody gets a full one and it's based on economic need basically he's going to get nothing in a nut shell.

Our daughter decided that she wasn't going to play college soccer and she managed to get over a dozen scholarships based on academic character, social, and Civic things she does. some of those were smaller amounts but it all added up enough to pay for her college for the first two years.

College soccer while that's another topic all together, the short limited season is really not conducted for serious soccer players. Many end up having to play and some other leagues like usl 2, upsl, etc to keep developing.
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I agree play for fun 1st but I have had a very different experience working with athletes and non athletes getting into colleges.

The days of being a non student and getting into college are indeed gone but I can name plenty of examples of 3.5 non AP kids getting into UCLA to play sports- not just revenue sports. You just have to be good enough if you are indeed a D1 prospect.

The low income Strong student athlete is the real unicorn as they can usually go for free with pell grants and needs based aid

middle class and up are going to have to pay for their students education unless they are like your daughter. Merit money is very hard to come by but it’s there especially at private schools

I’d argue however that the D1 sport scene is not a great option for the student athlete. They “own” you for lack of a better word and often discourage their players from difficult courses and majors

D2 is a great balance and the D3 schools are often the top academic choices- finally NAIA often have the most $ for their student athletes you’de be surprised

every kid wants to play at UCSB etc keep you options open, be willing to leave the west coast and you can play

lastly right now the “serious soccer player” sadly doesn’t have much of an option at all in the US on the pro stage- not even worth the time IMO
 
jpeter said:
Who is saying that? First time I've even heard that mentioned.

When youth soccer gets close to returning I'm sure we will find out the details on how organizations & leagues are going to run, the age groups, rosters, sub, out/inside comps, rules, travel, tournaments, showcases etc. Right now no body really knows, what was done in past is just that. The new landscape is shaping up to be different buts it's so fluid only time will tell.
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Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.
 
Kante said:
MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league.

On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.
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God, no. DA/MLS needs a fresh start. He may be experienced, but he ran a completely failed organization. Unfortunately that is something you see all the time in business.

While I'm skeptical of the MLS/DA league, I'm taking a wait and see approach. This is so fresh and we can speculate til were blue in the face (not saying that isn't fun). The reality is youth soccer is not restarting for a while, particularly if we have to meet the 6 benchmarks that Newsom laid out. This may sound blasphemous, but I haven't really missed soccer that much and my son even less so, but he has a ton of other interests. Maybe there is a message there I'm missing?
 
watfly said:
While I'm skeptical of the MLS/DA league, I'm taking a wait and see approach.
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I just think the MLS is not interested in adding a lot of non MLS DA clubs. After all they were not happy having their teams play non DA teams due to quality differences right? So why when you get a chance to have your own league for your MLS academies would they go back and add in A LOT of non MLS DA clubs? I don't think they do. Some? Sure.
 
galaxydad said:
I agree play for fun 1st but I have had a very different experience working with athletes and non athletes getting into colleges.

The days of being a non student and getting into college are indeed gone but I can name plenty of examples of 3.5 non AP kids getting into UCLA to play sports- not just revenue sports. You just have to be good enough if you are indeed a D1 prospect.

The low income Strong student athlete is the real unicorn as they can usually go for free with pell grants and needs based aid

middle class and up are going to have to pay for their students education unless they are like your daughter. Merit money is very hard to come by but it’s there especially at private schools

I’d argue however that the D1 sport scene is not a great option for the student athlete. They “own” you for lack of a better word and often discourage their players from difficult courses and majors

D2 is a great balance and the D3 schools are often the top academic choices- finally NAIA often have the most $ for their student athletes you’de be surprised

every kid wants to play at UCSB etc keep you options open, be willing to leave the west coast and you can play

lastly right now the “serious soccer player” sadly doesn’t have much of an option at all in the US on the pro stage- not even worth the time IMO
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Good feedback, yeah all I know about is what my kids have been through the last 18months or so. That UCLA example is very recent regarding soccer, first hand as we know incoming players and had discussions about that with the athletic staff. Football and other sports may be different but have no first hand info on that.

Grades and character came first no matter what universities they were interesting in, the athletic prowess or abilities was there and never in question. The culture, program fit, costs, campuses, and interactions with both staff and other students where what narrowed down the field.
 
Midas said:
Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.
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Nothing to be bad about, good to question what's the parameters & rules maybe. Better to find out up front and help your player make the most informed decision.

Some clubs & organizations actually have a contract where they spell things out. Sometimes those terms can / do seem wacky especially to the kids . One of those maybe releated to high School sports or other activities discouragement. We personally know some who have walked away as a result in the past. A league wide ban well that's another topic, hopefully we've learned our lessons in that regard.
 
Desert Hound said:
I just think the MLS is not interested in adding a lot of non MLS DA clubs. After all they were not happy having their teams play non DA teams due to quality differences right? So why when you get a chance to have your own league for your MLS academies would they go back and add in A LOT of non MLS DA clubs? I don't think they do. Some? Sure.
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There is a background battle going in CA at least to scavenge the bones of the former ussda.

USYS+ MLS vs USclub (NPl & ECNL)

USYS has been dominant in Socal for a while mostly due to Cal South and all the clubs & players playing under them

USclub has been trying to make inroads for years in Socal and have been picking up steam and offering more NPL's,UPSL, USL and ECNL for the boys recently.

Too bad they can't work together more closely but they act like competitors more than not and that doesn't help the players.

Let's really see if there is going to be cross competition finally like ECNL & MLS/USYS have came out in favor of this week.

CAL South have to wonder about them now will they make another move...CRL "academy" like last year? Or something to counter MLS "elite' & USclub expansion
 
Midas said:
Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.
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Our DOC said High School would not be an option. Maybe that is only for our club and not going to be a rule for the league.
 
thedudeabides said:
When a u15 team shows up playing non DA with the exact same roster that it fielded the year before as a DA, it's the same team. In fact YSR considers it the same team because it counts 18 months of competition. Same coach, same players, same team. Also, there are several tournaments that DA teams participate in that they play non DA competition. You can keep drinking the koolaid but judgment has been rendered; complete failure of it's stated objective to create world class players. Also, I've had numerous conversations with the creator of YSR software; the algorithm is solid and works very well with as little as 8 games counted. Numbers don't lie.
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LOL. No DA koolaid drinking here. We left the DA over a year ago and wouldn't go back.

Numbers don't lie, but models have limitations.

YSR's predictions are great, but as I said before, the numbers are not as good for teams further away in the graph. They favor teams that play more against lessor teams. If two teams have the same rating and one has played more games against lessor competition, the other team is more likely to win. This is why non SoCal teams have inflated numbers (and fare so poorly in tournaments vs. SoCal teams). It's not ysr's fault. It's how the model works. There's no possible way it can compensate for the lack of games between DA and non DA because the longer the cycle (using data from A played B played C played D to predict A vs. D) the less accurate the prediction. I'm sure the creator of ysr, whoever he may be, is aware of this. It's just how the math works.

If ysr is considering a former DA team as the same team, that can help tighten the cycles, but only so much because when a team ages out of DA, they usually loose one or two of their top players, which can make a big difference.
 
focomoso said:
LOL. No DA koolaid drinking here. We left the DA over a year ago and wouldn't go back.

Numbers don't lie, but models have limitations.

YSR's predictions are great, but as I said before, the numbers are not as good for teams further away in the graph. They favor teams that play more against lessor teams. If two teams have the same rating and one has played more games against lessor competition, the other team is more likely to win. This is why non SoCal teams have inflated numbers (and fare so poorly in tournaments vs. SoCal teams). It's not ysr's fault. It's how the model works. There's no possible way it can compensate for the lack of games between DA and non DA because the longer the cycle (using data from A played B played C played D to predict A vs. D) the less accurate the prediction. I'm sure the creator of ysr, whoever he may be, is aware of this. It's just how the math works.

If ysr is considering a former DA team as the same team, that can help tighten the cycles, but only so much because when a team ages out of DA, they usually loose one or two of their top players, which can make a big difference.
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So I would agree with much of that. I actually brought it up to the programmer a few years ago. I called it the sandbagging effect. If you take a team that is pretty decent but they are playing in a lot of low level tourneys and playing in a level below where they should be in league, they will beat teams by much more than the predicted outcome because of a demoralization factor. When teams are two or more goal difference in composites at the start of the game, the likelihood of that team getting beat by 4 or more goals goes up more than the linear prediction. You are correct, YSR doesn't and can't predict this. What it should do is have a diminishing effect on how it counts every goal that exceeds more than 4 goals over the expected outcome.

Here's what I don't agree with what you said; I have not seen the inflated effect in states outside of socal like you state and that's why SoCal disproportionately, even adjusting for population differences, dominates YSR rankings. Got soccer is the exact opposite because their methodology is severely flawed to the point of it being a statistical joke. In fact YSR is far superior in predicting SoCal in relation to the rest of the country because of their methodology of counting every official game and giving losing teams credit when they exceed expectations. In other states because there are fewer teams, the spread between the top and bottom is much more narrow and therefore it is more difficult to sandbag.

Anyway, we are splitting hairs I believe. I have no doubt that between the statistical models I have seen backed up by real life game outcomes, the overall composite average of non mls DA's around the nation would not even put them as a top 50 team in SoCal. In fact, I just ran a sample of 20 non mls da's around the country at U14 and their composite put them at 74th in SoCal! There are 74 teams in southern california alone that are as good or better than the average non mls DA and 250 teams around the country that are as good are better. That's astonishing. Sure there are factors that skew here and there and as you stated models have limitations but the fact is MLS finally figured out what a lot of people knew for years....DA was way, way, way overhyped at the point of being a sham. I'm glad you were able to recognize this as well when you moved on from it.
 
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