Soccerfan2
GOLD
The image of the ladies in their inside out jerseys yesterday says it all.
US Soccer: "Our Proposal for Equal Pay for Women & Men"
- Thread starter MWN
- Start date
Keepermom2
GOLD
Well said...I too have been conflicted for the same reasons until I read the purpose of US Soccer and FIFA's is to grow the game. I had always looked at it from a profit stand point. While that is still somewhat important because you need revenue to be able to spend on growing the game, there has been incredible growth in women's soccer in the US and in the world which is largely because of the US women's national team success.
outside!
DA
I was not conflicted and I was looking at it from a profit point of view, long term profits. The best way to continue to grow the sport for men is to fund the women. Mothers on average make more decisions about how children spend their days than fathers do. Women soccer players and fans will be more likely to introduce their young children to soccer than non players/fans.
Keepermom2
GOLD
Very good point!
Keepermom2
GOLD
A long-term partner of U.S. Soccer, Coke said in a statement Wednesday that it was “extremely disappointed with the unacceptable and offensive comments. We have asked to meet with them immediately to express our concerns,” the company said. “The Coca-Cola Co. is firm in its commitment to gender equality, fairness and women’s empowerment in the United States and around the world, and we expect the same from our partners.”
I am guessing the revenue argument will now be off the table.
ftw.usatoday.com
I am guessing the revenue argument will now be off the table.
U.S. Soccer hits rock bottom with shameful legal argument against USWNT
In a filing, a lawyer for U.S. Soccer made the argument that women’s players were inferior to men. There’s no coming back from there.
ftw.usatoday.com
sweeperkeeper
SILVER
You are cherry picking data. Look at world wide viewership of the world cup finals not just US numbers. Then look at revenue for the entire sport. There were 3-4 times the viewership for the mens world cup than the womens.
I'm not saying that the men deserve more or less. I actually think they should be paid the same base rate (something like 100K per year) but then the question goes back to the fact that the men's game generates significantly more revenue world wide (mostly from FIFA television rights) which gets funneled through the various team.
My point is that many of the arguments for the WNT pay increase revolve around their performance and how well they have done. That is great but then you need to look at that sport (womens soccer) separate than mens soccer. It is no different than mens baseball vs womens softball.
Keepermom2
GOLD
A long-term partner of U.S. Soccer, Coke said in a statement Wednesday that it was “extremely disappointed with the unacceptable and offensive comments
We are talking about US Soccer not world wide soccer. You should probably update yourself on the latest happenings in the legal argument. US Soccer is at risk for losing revenue from sponsors for both men and women for making the same argument in essence that you are making. Note it IS different than men's baseball vs women's softball because they are not under the same organization or being paid by the same organization.
We are talking about US Soccer not world wide soccer. You should probably update yourself on the latest happenings in the legal argument. US Soccer is at risk for losing revenue from sponsors for both men and women for making the same argument in essence that you are making. Note it IS different than men's baseball vs women's softball because they are not under the same organization or being paid by the same organization.
Dos Equis
GOLD
My conflict had nothing to do with profits but more to do with investment. I was concerned the women were looking too much at current pay versus long term investment in the overall women's game by US Soccer. The support of the NWSL and their salaries and benefits for playing there is a unique situation, and while modification and expansion of that investment was needed, elimination of that support in exchange for higher compensation for current players was, in my estimation, a gamble I was not willing to support.
However, US Soccer abandoned that argument/strategy for straight out sexism. Less responsibility? Our women's team carried the torch and was (and in large part still is) the global face for the entire women's soccer game for over 20 years. The girls youth game develop in these years as a direct result of our women's teams accomplishments and efforts. That includes the dark days, post the collapse of the first woman's professional league, when our WNT was not year round and the women were sustaining the game by paying to play, playing for free, or fundraising and running camps and clinics so the WPSL and other adult leagues could keep going.
US Soccer just does not get it. This debacle. The rushed roll out and now slow decline of the girls DA everywhere but in Socal. I could go on, but in the end, women's soccer needs better stewardship than US Soccer has shown it can provide.
Keepermom2
GOLD
And...not cherry picking at all.
FIFA: Over 1 Billion People Watched 2019 Women's World Cup That includes an average audience of 82.18 million in-home viewers for the USA-Netherlands final. FIFA research says the Women's World Cup final drew an average audience of 82.18 million in-home viewers - 56% more than the 2015 final. FIFA says the United States' 2-0 win over the Netherlands in Lyon, France, reached 263.62 million viewers for at least one minute of action.
FIFA: Over 1 Billion Watched 2019 Women's World Cup
The numbers were big all summer long–especially in the USA-Netherlands final.
www.si.com
Over 3.572 billion watched the men's 2018 World Cup and over 1.12 billion watched the final alone. What is your point?And...not cherry picking at all.
FIFA: Over 1 Billion People Watched 2019 Women's World Cup That includes an average audience of 82.18 million in-home viewers for the USA-Netherlands final. FIFA research says the Women's World Cup final drew an average audience of 82.18 million in-home viewers - 56% more than the 2015 final. FIFA says the United States' 2-0 win over the Netherlands in Lyon, France, reached 263.62 million viewers for at least one minute of action.
FIFA: Over 1 Billion Watched 2019 Women's World Cup
The numbers were big all summer long–especially in the USA-Netherlands final.
Keepermom2
GOLD
Great post. I was also struggling with the "current pay versus long term investment". Ideally I would like to see the settlement agreement include equal pay, payment for damages (I am not necessarily in agreement on the FIFA bonus discrepancy the way it is currently stated), and an additional investment that includes growing the women's soccer program here in the US beyond what they currently have planned.
Keepermom2
GOLD
The growth in the women's game worldwide.
The first step is to understand the current differences in pay. The women are paid "guaranteed" amounts, whereas the men are not paid any guaranteed amounts. As a result, the men get paid more for meeting certain milestones, whereas the women are paid less.
| MEN (Per Collective Bargain) | WOMEN (Per Collective Bargain) | |
| SALARY (National Team Contract) 17 Players (16 in 2021) | $0.00 (No US Soccer Salary) | $100,000 |
| MLS/NWSL Bonus by US Soccer | $0.00 (No US Soccer Bonus) | $67,500 (Tier 1) $62,500 (Tier 2) |
| Call Ups - Non Contract Players | $3,500 - $4,000 per call-up (8+ Camps) | $3,500 - $4,000 per call-up (8+ Camps) |
| World Cup Roster Bonus | $68,750.00 | $37,500 |
| Win Against Non Top Teams | $9,375 (Outside Top 25) | $5,250 (Outside Top 8) |
| Loss Against Non Top Team | $5,000 | $0.00 |
| Game Attendance $ per ticket | $1.50 to Union | $1.50 + 7.5% to Union above 17,000 txs. |
| Game Sold Out | No Bonus | Bonus |
| Viewership Bonus | No Bonus | Bonus (if increase 10+%) |
Source: https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...ing-the-pay-gapswhats-at-stake-for-both-sides
It is absolutely true that the USWNT players not paid equally. This is because they negotiated a guaranteed deal, which guarantees pay of $167,500 for 17 of them, and $62,500 for the remaining 7, whereas the USMNT soccer players receive $0 in guaranteed pay.
My question to all of you is based on the fact that the Women negotiated guaranteed pay and the men don't get any, why do you believe that US Soccer is treating them unfairly?
Carlos Cordeiro, the U.S. Soccer president who presided over a disgraceful legal strategy citing “science” to belittle the world champion U.S. women’s national team based on its gender, should resign immediately.
There is no other conclusion that can be reached after the federation showed shockingly poor judgment approving official language from U.S. Soccer,
U.S. Soccer has had a long history of discriminating against its women’s players, a story that SI told in detail in last year’s podcast series THROWBACK about the U.S. women’s national team. But never before this week had that discrimination been put into writing so brazenly by the federation itself. In documents released to the public, presumably after significant vetting from U.S. Soccer, the federation argued that women’s players deserved to be paid less than men’s players because their ability and skill were not as good as those of men’s players if they competed against each other on the field.
There is no other conclusion that can be reached after the federation showed shockingly poor judgment approving official language from U.S. Soccer,
U.S. Soccer has had a long history of discriminating against its women’s players, a story that SI told in detail in last year’s podcast series THROWBACK about the U.S. women’s national team. But never before this week had that discrimination been put into writing so brazenly by the federation itself. In documents released to the public, presumably after significant vetting from U.S. Soccer, the federation argued that women’s players deserved to be paid less than men’s players because their ability and skill were not as good as those of men’s players if they competed against each other on the field.
Thank you for illuminating this. So the $66 million comes down to this - the women want equal WC pay and want US Soccer to pay the difference to what FIFA pays out. They clearly have a better deal already than the US men. As I and many have said, it is profit driven - the men's tournament generates far more revenue than does the women's. The only possible beef could be with FIFA and are they paying an equal percentage of the award's pot to both men and women winners? Other than that I would tell them to go pound sand. It's not US Soccer's responsibility to make up the difference.
outside!
DA
As someone said above, great post. I feel like a rec player practicing with a D1 team. You write really well.
The only thing I would change about your post is that all soccer in the US, men's and women's needs better stewardship than US soccer can provide.
outside!
DA
So your solution to a century or more of blatant discrimination that effects all female players is to do nothing?
Please tell me how the current deal with US Soccer discriminates against women? They made the deal. So are you telling me FIFA should pay the women the same amount as the men even though they don't produce the same revenue.
It would be highly unlikely that the legal filings were vetted by US Soccer Executives or their PR Team. In litigation of this nature, those with advanced notice of legal strategy tends to be a very small circle. Because these legal filings were made by an outside firm, the normal practice is for outside counsel to share the filings with "in house counsel" before filing. In house counsel would not share the filings with anybody not on the "closed" legal committee and then its rare to do so for a summary judgment motion. What US Soccer's lawyer's argue is based on existing law, thus, legal strategies and not PR strategies, so "assuming" or "presuming significant vettings from US Soccer" would be highly unlikely. Also note that this are responsive pleadings (Opposition or Reply Papers), which means they needed to be filed and served 21 days before the hearing date.
Here is a link to the Opposition papers:
DocumentCloud
www.documentcloud.org
The arguments made by counsel that are the inflammatory arguments start on page 11 (Sub.Section C - WNT and MNT Players Do Not Perform Equal Work Requiring Equal Skill, Effort, and Responsibility Under Similar Working Conditions."
However, reading the full context of the argument is much less to not inflammatory (IMHO).
outside!
DA
Why does the men's game produce more revenue? Is it solely because it is more entertaining? Prior to the 1921 ban on women's football by the FA, some women's matches sold more tickets than men's matches with one drawing 53,000 spectators. The FA ban did not end until 1971. Many other countries banned women's football. Germany's ban did not end until 1980. Without these historical ban's on women's football it is very likely that women's football would generate much more revenue than it does now. So given that the women's game has been discriminated against by many of the core countries of FIFA, your solution is still to do nothing to right these wrongs?