Separate private divisions for playoffs with soccer

G

galaxydad

SILVER ELITE
After an AD meeting yesterday there is a rumor that there will be a proposal to have separate private and public school playoff divisions for soccer as a litmus test for a larger switch.

DA players from public schools watching from the sidelines as their DA teammates play for private schools play in the CIF playoffs.

per the source many ADs were unaware of the rule and feel this is the final straw.
Well see if it goes any further
 
A couple questions:
*Is this just for girls as the Boys DA does not have this same issue?
I highly doubt CIF will do this for one gender and not the other.
*What problem does this solve?
The current girls CIF SS finals for Div 1 - 3 include a grand total of 1 private school and 2019 had 2 of 6 with 1 champion.
*How will this be implemented across the Divisions?
The point of divisions is to allow for equality in team strength based on previous success and school size. If private schools have a distinct advantage, they will naturally select to the same division and therefore eliminate the perceived advantage will go away...see Football where private schools dominate the highest level as they can attract (recruit) top talent.
 
DJB said:
*What problem does this solve?
The current girls CIF SS finals for Div 1 - 3 include a grand total of 1 private school and 2019 had 2 of 6 with 1 champion.
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The problem that is solved is an issue of fairness. Some DA girls are allowed to play HS soccer and others aren't. On the surface, public school girls are being punished for not going to private schools. If DA is going to continue private school waivers for DA players, then public schools should make them play in their own sandbox. Private schools are not limited to geographic area, they can provide financial assistance AND they can have DA players on their roster?! Public schools pull their players from a specific geographic area. Put the private schools in their own bracket and let then do whatever they want.
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
The problem that is solved is an issue of fairness. Some DA girls are allowed to play HS soccer and others aren't. On the surface, public school girls are being punished for not going to private schools. If DA is going to continue private school waivers for DA players, then public schools should make them play in their own sandbox. Private schools are not limited to geographic area, they can provide financial assistance AND they can have DA players on their roster?! Public schools pull their players from a specific geographic area. Put the private schools in their own bracket and let then do whatever they want.
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Let's define "Punished" and "Fairness" - It is a clear and upfront choice for the girls and parents. If they go to a public school and want to play high school, they have a choice to not play DA. They can play ECNL or another high level league that allows for High School play. No one if forcing DA on them. If it was so important for your daughter to play high school you would have chosen another path.

Again,this is not a Private School decision or rule. It is a DA rule. You should take this up with DA and not CIF or the private schools.

Lastly, DA is a label that does not 100% indicate skill or impact on a roster. There are MANY non-DA players who can/will make a more significant impact on a soccer field at or higher than DA players. What makes you believe a DA player will automatically make the high school team a winner in a very competitive so cal region?
 
I will start with the fact that my daughter plays HS soccer, and turned down a DA offer awhile back for logistics reasons.
If I had my way all private schools would play in their own division as they are not limited to a geographic area like public schools. Recruit all you want and offer as much as you want in the way of scholarships, but play against your own.
I understand that it is a DA rule, and I would like to see DA grow a pair and say no HS soccer for anyone (or for everyone), but I don't control that.
I don't believe that every DA player would be an impact player at HS anymore than every DA player is an impact player for their respective club. That said, training 4 days a week compounded over years should make the DA players a pretty talented group.

The appearance to me is that this is another case of special rules applying to a small group of people; I don't see that as "fair."
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
I will start with the fact that my daughter plays HS soccer, and turned down a DA offer awhile back for logistics reasons.
If I had my way all private schools would play in their own division as they are not limited to a geographic area like public schools. Recruit all you want and offer as much as you want in the way of scholarships, but play against your own.
I understand that it is a DA rule, and I would like to see DA grow a pair and say no HS soccer for anyone (or for everyone), but I don't control that.
I don't believe that every DA player would be an impact player at HS anymore than every DA player is an impact player for their respective club. That said, training 4 days a week compounded over years should make the DA players a pretty talented group.

The appearance to me is that this is another case of special rules applying to a small group of people; I don't see that as "fair."
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Have you not heard of EllaJustus, NewWaveDave , @Soccerhelper and friends? He can tell you a lot.
 
EJ is no more and I love NWD and Soccerhelper. Justus was way too judgmental on folk.s Please forgive me everyone for EJ and Justus if they offended anyone. Like I'm innocent in all this toxic madness, right? I'm guilty as hell for falling into the trap. No more. No more curse words from me either. I have a different view of HS Soccer and DA Waiver stuff today @Fact. I think the DA is stupid for putting us all here in the first place but whatever. I think HS Soccer rules and it's too bad the DA forbids their top top players from playing unless they get a special pass just because. I say stay in the DA and the rest of the other players will play ECNL and HS Soccer. I've heard from many and I mean many ECNL coaches and their phone is winning off the hook for next season. All these families looking for a safe place for their dd and to call home for 10 months. Let them have the DA. CIF should always have private school league and playoffs. If a dear child decides to follow the DA rules and she goes to public school and she follows the DA rules, then so be it. Or, just don't follow the rule and see if they try and kick your ass out when your dd comes back after playing for her high school. That's what I want someone to do. Let's see if DA takes that sucker on. I tried to get my dd to do last year but she found a great coach in HS School and ECNL and doesn;t want the drama or the spot light in that case just to play in the DA and prove a point. I would support anyone who just disobeyed this stupid rule that no judge would in force imho. Any of you smart lawyers disagree with me? The Federation is already getting sued by the big sisters for $68,000,000.
 
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full90 said:
Omg DA just let them play high school. So stupid.
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At this moment I have told all my friends who ask me for advice to stay away from the DA, even if they allow HS School Soccer for next year and go back to birth year to save face and save their business from failing as it is already imo. A league for the rich only. Anti Latino, won't allow Public School kids to participate and poor kids who have parents trying to survive completely knocked out from participating and having access to the holy grail. Not a group I want to spend time with. Also, "some" Docs & coaches have been very poor examples to our young ladies right here in SoCal. Right now it's still status quo for next crazy season but that could change on a dime. I'm so grateful to just have one more year of this but I will 100% offer any advice to those who need help.
 
Mater Dei’s boys basketball team this season traveled to Arizona, Las Vegas, Oregon, West Virginia and Massachusetts.

GDA is run just like private school travel sports league. In fact, the one's most in charge of the socal DA probably all send their kids to private school. Private schools can travel all they want because the teachers have to support the athletes. Public school kids need to be in their chair everyday so the school can get paid. Plus, traveling all over the country to play soccer and missing school sends the wrong message and I agree. Private school teachers can tell little Sally not to worry about her homework and test and go win for the Monarchs and she can take it when she gets back from her 6 day soccer trip to Florida. Public school teacher might say, "I don;t care about your little soccer trip, you need to be here to take the tests and turn in homework or get an "F." The coaches and Docs then put a full court guilt pressure defense on the kid and say, "That's too bad Sally, all the D1 one coaches and YNT scouts will be there and they really want to see you play. Oh well, good luck being seen by college coaches." Sally comes home crying because she feels torn. She wants to play with her friends from HS but also wants to use soccer as a vehicle into college. However, she is being made to believe you have to go fly across the country and play in the cold and maybe not even play because Sally comes off the bench most of the time.

Lastly, the GDA was put together to find the "best of the best" in all of the United States of America so they can put together the best team possible to represent this great country of ours. You can't tell me your league is doing that when you EXCLUDE all the Public School kids from participating. Think about that for a moment and let that sink in to your mind. It sounds unbelievable but were actually all allowing this to happen as we discuss this very important topic for well being of our dear daughters.

I will add lastly that if the DA goes back to school year age and allow HS Soccer too their business model is toast. So I think all we need is one brave family and dd to challenge this stupid, unenforceable rule in the first place. Any volunteers? Then, we need to challenge the birth year rule. This too was done in the dark of night, trust me!! I know for a fact many top docs (the good ones) begged the GDA not to change to birth year. All the good ones were concerned with the social damage this would cause and pressure to pick one or another, either or, instead of........Both and.......... Then they begged the DA, the good ones not to forbid children to participate for their local high school soccer teams. These three things need to be challenged, like right now. Hit the Pause button and at least try and have a quick civil discussion or debate on whats best for the children for 2020-2021 season. If you don;t, they will tell you want to do. DA and ECNL as of right now are in a dog fight. The truth lies in the middle. I like the ECNL structure but would like a discussion on the all the travel and maybe lighten that up a little or be ok with some type of hybrid and or part time model. This is a good start to important topic that I obviously have time to help with. PTA and now the PPA, Parent and Players Association :)
 
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Based on the no HS play issue, I believe ECNL is a better option than DA, and my DD played the first year of GDA. Just remember that the ECNL leadership is just as corrupt as DA and they DO NOT care about the players any more than DA leadership does. The biggest reason GDA was able to get up an running is that ECNL operated as a monopoly in SoCal and would not expand in order to protect the member clubs.

If I was in charge, I would eliminate both DA and ECNL and form a SoCal league with team based promotion and relegation. Only the top few teams would have any need to travel out of the area. This would save everybody money and as an added bonus put less CO2 and particulate in the air. I would also form all-star type age group teams that could get together to train periodically. These teams could challenge the US national teams and I bet they would win more than 1/2 the time.
 
outside! said:
Based on the no HS play issue, I believe ECNL is a better option than DA, and my DD played the first year of GDA. Just remember that the ECNL leadership is just as corrupt as DA and they DO NOT care about the players any more than DA leadership does. The biggest reason GDA was able to get up an running is that ECNL operated as a monopoly in SoCal and would not expand in order to protect the member clubs.

If I was in charge, I would eliminate both DA and ECNL and form a SoCal league with team based promotion and relegation. Only the top few teams would have any need to travel out of the area. This would save everybody money and as an added bonus put less CO2 and particulate in the air. I would also form all-star type age group teams that could get together to train periodically. These teams could challenge the US national teams and I bet they would win more than 1/2 the time.
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Corrupt by keeping some Docs who own clubs out of Socal ECNL? I think the ones who wanted to force the leadership of ECNL (private company) entry and were denied for a reason. Its speculative on your part to say they were corrupt. I bet there is a business reason why Beach and Legends were not approved. They and Surf seem to be running the socal DA now and we all see how they operate. I can see why they weren't allowed to participate in ECNL.
 
Soccerhelper said:
Corrupt by keeping some Docs who own clubs out of Socal ECNL? I think the ones who wanted to force the leadership of ECNL (private company) entry and were denied for a reason. Its speculative on your part to say they were corrupt. I bet there is a business reason why Beach and Legends were not approved. They and Surf seem to be running the socal DA now and we all see how they operate. I can see why they weren't allowed to participate in ECNL.
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Before GDA, Surf used to be the only ECNL club in SD county. They did their best to make sure no other SD clubs were accepted into ECNL even though local teams were beating their ECNL national champs. Similar dynamics in OC were keeping Beach and Legends out of ECNL.
 
Another interesting point is that many of the DA coaches are most often private HS school coaches.- there is tremendous pressure to go to that school if you want to play DA or ECNL for that matter.

One DA coach who played a public school team in the playoffs told the coach that enjoy his best Jr player while it last as he’s bring him to DA next year and won’t let him play HS anymore.
JSerra is almost all Blues- Boys West Coast ECNL, Servite has 2/3 or the 04 ECNL team attending and I bet you could go on and on
 
Soccerhelper said:
Corrupt by keeping some Docs who own clubs out of Socal ECNL? I think the ones who wanted to force the leadership of ECNL (private company) entry and were denied for a reason. Its speculative on your part to say they were corrupt. I bet there is a business reason why Beach and Legends were not approved. They and Surf seem to be running the socal DA now and we all see how they operate. I can see why they weren't allowed to participate in ECNL.
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No one is saying a Beach/ Legends monopoly is better than a Surf monopoly.

The point is that any club based monopoly is bad for the kids. ECNL and GDA are equally at fault in this. Just merge the leagues and let the top 10 socal teams play each other.

Anything else is being done for the clubs, not the kids.
 
DJB said:
A couple questions:
*Is this just for girls as the Boys DA does not have this same issue?
I highly doubt CIF will do this for one gender and not the other.
*What problem does this solve?
The current girls CIF SS finals for Div 1 - 3 include a grand total of 1 private school and 2019 had 2 of 6 with 1 champion.
*How will this be implemented across the Divisions?
The point of divisions is to allow for equality in team strength based on previous success and school size. If private schools have a distinct advantage, they will naturally select to the same division and therefore eliminate the perceived advantage will go away...see Football where private schools dominate the highest level as they can attract (recruit) top talent.
Click to expand...

Both the boys D1 SS finalist this year are private schools. Loyola vs Servite loaded with club players, ecnl, and some DA with "waviers". Yes they recruit and offer assistantance to players who won't necessarily go there without that. Some always find a way to game the system and that's going on anyway you slice it.

The ussda ban on public HS soccer is not needed and doesn't help anyone IMO.

Im not sure HS needs to separate public vs private in competition and CIF has like what 7 different levels? and does a quasi pro/rel each year in a attempt to get more balanced comp.
 
outside! said:
Before GDA, Surf used to be the only ECNL club in SD county. They did their best to make sure no other SD clubs were accepted into ECNL even though local teams were beating their ECNL national champs. Similar dynamics in OC were keeping Beach and Legends out of ECNL.
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I can;t speak on that but I do concede your point and I think that sucks as well. However, it's a board of a private company that is free to add teams or not. Also, the only thing I see ECNL selling is helping a parent and player have better access to college coaches. Colleges like it because they don;t have to fly all over the country. They also have a competitive process for their perceived top players called CPS. From their the top CPS players play and then the National Selection of players play more games. Cream rises to the top that way. Some snubs but that's expected. Nothing is perfect. GDA started their league by announcing with misinformation or decided to change their original announcement of 03 only and then a few months later change to 03 and 04 when certain clubs started to lose top recruits. 04s would have been forced to go ECNL. They also had the tickets to the YNT all of a sudden. Their league got something ECNL never got. My dd left a club because of not wanting to ECNL with baby 04s. She was offered by two top Clubs a spot on their 03 new DA Academy team for 2017-2018 new DA League, one of which was a full ride. A certain club and a few others were going to lose their top older 04s. So they decided to add 04s too at the last minute to help keep players from leaving to Legends or other top clubs that allowed play ups for tops goats. Surf was one club that had a club policy of no play ups unless mandated by Youth National Coaches and Staff. The other false information given to me that was false
1st. All Clubs who get the DA will need to be fully funded by a certain time or else. At this time every club in America was told this. They were told new Sheriff in town and you must apply to enter the pearly gates. Two rounds of sweat & bullets for some clubs. I feel bad for 98% of the clubs out there. 2nd All Coaches MUST have B licencee to coach. I think the deeper issue is the recruiting practices done behind closed rooms in today's market place. But I'm done talking about the past. I also think ECNL has probably learned a lesson and could help with a solution to the future as well as those at the DA. The past is the past. Let's all forgive each other and try and fix it for those going into 8th grade next year and younger. I'm all in to help :)
 
Soccerhelper said:
But I'm done talking about the past. I also think ECNL has probably learned a lesson and could help with a solution to the future as well as those at the DA. The past is the past. Let's all forgive each other and try and fix it for those going into 8th grade next year and younger. I'm all in to help :)
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What was the quote? Something about "Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it." All I am saying is that the same corrupt people are still in charge of ECNL. Don't trust them farther than you can throw them.
 
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