Why I feel DA is the superior league

[GoldenGate]

TY "Golden Gate" for giving us all the information we as parents need down here in SoCal. It's all a BIG scam folks. If Earthquakes DOC is not "enforcing" the rules of Expectations, than no one is. Some folks are making a lot of money off false expectations on what it takes to be the next Mia. Please PM me GG and I will pay you the $1. BTW, I hate the Warriors but they're one hell of team. Go Lakers Better yet GG, get a GOATs team formed from NoCal and get your dd down here for the first ever, "All GOATs Labor Day Turney." @Sombith, can you make this happen? We will also allow top teams from all over the country to test their teams against the "Best of the Best Local GOAT teams" Dom? This could be the change we all need. A "D0 DA" parade so to speak to "doo doo" on the DA for one weekend. DA is not going away (unless parents in SoCal do something about it) so you might as well have some fun, right? A tournament run by crazy parents and their innocent daughters. No Coaching, No tournament fees, No Teams fees, No Mandatory Hotel stays. In fact, if your nice to me, I might let some of you stay at my crib at da beach in Laguna. Just let the girls play, have fun, eat ice cream and pizza and paint face green, yellow, blue or whatever they want. Just one weekend out of the whole year where no politics, keeping up with the Jones, politicking the coaches to get playing time and or guaranteed field position and starts. No blacklisting, name calling or labeling families crazy club hoppers is allowed. I bet Surfref and my dd Grandpa would help ref the games. However, we should throw them some money for dealing with all the crazy soccer parents. No one can make money except the Refs!!!!

Nothing about Quakes is a scam. They do excellent work and follow GDA rules. I’m sure Quakes would prefer no one played HS, but they seem to understand it isn’t their decision to make, and they work within the rules to accommodate when appropriate. I doubt Mr. Deza has ever given anyone false expectations about their ability or future. He is rather candid, which is one of the things that makes him such an excellent coach and DOC.

 

[Justus]

Nothing about Quakes is a scam. They do excellent work and follow GDA rules. I’m sure Quakes would prefer no one played HS, but they seem to understand it isn’t their decision to make, and they work within the rules to accommodate when appropriate. I doubt Mr. Deza has ever given anyone false expectations about their ability or future. He is rather candid, which is one of the things that makes him such an excellent coach and DOC.

I know he's the real deal. But the website say's something else. Some in OC say 4 days/10 months but it's not really. A little, "wink, wink" or "waiver" and no problemo.

 

[Kicker4Life]

I know he's the real deal. But the website say's something else. Some in OC say 4 days/10 months but it's not really. A little, "wink, wink" or "waiver" and no problemo.

As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.

 

[LASTMAN14]

As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.

To add the staff also has days where the girls will play Frisbee golf, basketball, volleyball to break things up and keep it light.

 

[Justus]

As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.

I know. I was always messing with you and took it too far at times. I apologies. I know what's going. This is dance moms but with both parents trying to get the D1 deal. All good under the sun brah!!!!

 

[Justus]

As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.

The truth is must clubs allow two days a week

 

[Kicker4Life]

The truth is must clubs allow two days a week

Your “truth” or reality?

 

[Justus]

Your “truth” or reality?

Without naming names it's a reality. I know most committed players with goals will go for 3 days but I know many, many players going to just 2. DA tries to make themselves the great 4 days of training a week with all the special trainers/10 months out of the year "academy" when we all know its the same as ECNL except the rules are different. I pushed for DA but my dd truly saw the smoke & mirrors sales pitch. I didn't, she did

 

[Kicker4Life]

Without naming names it's a reality. I know most committed players with goals will go for 3 days but I know many, many players going to just 2. DA tries to make themselves the great 4 days of training a week with all the special trainers/10 months out of the year "academy" when we all know its the same as ECNL except the rules are different. I pushed for DA but my dd truly saw the smoke & mirrors sales pitch. I didn't, she did

The “the committed” age group is always a special group. I guess you don’t know what you don’t know when considering your limited exposure

 

[MarkM]

The “the committed” age group is always a special group. I guess you don’t know what you don’t know when considering your limited exposure

Let the troll die.

 

[Justus]

I understand now why its superior

 

[timbuck]

We are now at a point where there are too many damn leagues.
Have DA. Have ECNL.
But DPL and ECNL regional league are just stupid. Couple that with 3 flavors of flight 1.

People say the US needs promotion/relegation.
We keep promoting youth teams, but there is no relegation. We just keep adding layers.

I try to keep up on teams/leagues where we have friends playing. It’s too much work this year.

 

[Fact]

We are now at a point where there are too many damn leagues.
Have DA. Have ECNL.
But DPL and ECNL regional league are just stupid. Couple that with 3 flavors of flight 1.

People say the US needs promotion/relegation.
We keep promoting youth teams, but there is no relegation. We just keep adding layers.

I try to keep up on teams/leagues where we have friends playing. It’s too much work this year.

Find a coach and a team that is a good fit irregardless of name/league. (This is not meant to say that they should play on a team below their ability level. They might need to play up a year or two or even a girl with boys to find the right level) It might take your kiddo a little extra effort to be recruited but in the end they will have had a much happier experience. I promise.

 

[timmyh]

Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.
It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:

There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players. In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born. In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born. That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world. Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches).

I see that number rising for the women significantly in the very near future. In the next decade, because of the boom in the number of quality international soccer players along with the fact that women have a fraction of the professional prospects that men have (thus making an American college scholarship quite an attractive proposition), it would not be surprising at all if that percentage rises from 1 in 20 to something like 4 or 5 in 20. If that happens, then those roster spots will obviously be at the expense of American players. The competition for scholarships for US players will increase dramatically.

The DA believes that spending 3 or 4 month for each of four straight years to leave the club and play high school soccer comes at a developmental cost to the individual player. I think everyone, even the most die-hard ECNL fan, would agree with that contention. With rare exception it's almost certainly true, but such commitment comes with an obvious cost. That cost is the very reasonable belief that the life experience and fun of playing high school soccer is well worth the minor developmental loss that comes with choosing to play in the generally inferior environment. I think even the most die-hard DA stans see the merit in that personal decision for many players. That tradeoff is now easier to justify because the average ECNL player still currently has quality collegiate options.

Putting all that together, though, the competition for college roster spots and money is about to get much more competitive as the rest of the world continues to improve the quality and quantity of its players who will be looking to play at an American college. If the DA is producing players who have more fully fulfilled their potential and are better equipped to fill the fewer spots available, then I think simple math would suggest that ECNL players will be getting the short end of the stick of being the ones shut out of those 3 or 4 roster spots that will probably soon be going to international players. It seems likely to me that the consequences of taking a total of 12-16 months off from a high-level club environment to play high school instead of club soccer may become a bit more stark in the near future than it is now.

Men's college coaches long ago come to the conclusion that boy players who have been in the DA environment are generally better equipped to be an impact college player. That day is likely coming for the women's game, too. And combined with the likely influx of impact international players, it seems to me the college scholarship squeeze could be coming for ECNL and especially other "independent" players.

 

[Justafan]

Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.
It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:

There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players. In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born. In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born. That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world. Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches).

I see that number rising for the women significantly in the very near future. In the next decade, because of the boom in the number of quality international soccer players along with the fact that women have a fraction of the professional prospects that men have (thus making an American college scholarship quite an attractive proposition), it would not be surprising at all if that percentage rises from 1 in 20 to something like 4 or 5 in 20. If that happens, then those roster spots will obviously be at the expense of American players. The competition for scholarships for US players will increase dramatically.

The DA believes that spending 3 or 4 month for each of four straight years to leave the club and play high school soccer comes at a developmental cost to the individual player. I think everyone, even the most die-hard ECNL fan, would agree with that contention. With rare exception it's almost certainly true, but such commitment comes with an obvious cost. That cost is the very reasonable belief that the life experience and fun of playing high school soccer is well worth the minor developmental loss that comes with choosing to play in the generally inferior environment. I think even the most die-hard DA stans see the merit in that personal decision for many players. That tradeoff is now easier to justify because the average ECNL player still currently has quality collegiate options.

Putting all that together, though, the competition for college roster spots and money is about to get much more competitive as the rest of the world continues to improve the quality and quantity of its players who will be looking to play at an American college. If the DA is producing players who have more fully fulfilled their potential and are better equipped to fill the fewer spots available, then I think simple math would suggest that ECNL players will be getting the short end of the stick of being the ones shut out of those 3 or 4 roster spots that will probably soon be going to international players. It seems likely to me that the consequences of taking a total of 12-16 months off from a high-level club environment to play high school instead of club soccer may become a bit more stark in the near future than it is now.

Men's college coaches long ago come to the conclusion that boy players who have been in the DA environment are generally better equipped to be an impact college player. That day is likely coming for the women's game, too. And combined with the likely influx of impact international players, it seems to me the college scholarship squeeze could be coming for ECNL and especially other "independent" players.

On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues. For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway? DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league

 

[Justafan]

On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues. For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway? DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league

Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt). So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.

 

[Fact]

On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues. For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway? DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league

Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt). So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.

Wow, I am proud of you, finally something logical.

 

[MarkM]

Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt). So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.

You play more club games in DA. You play more overall games if you play ECNL and HS. I think most would agree that the HS games don't count (or even detract) from development.

There are two fewer days of training in ECNL each week. Some would argue that is unnecessary and leads to burnout. And some ECNL kids spend those two days training independently. But no one would argue that there is a minimal difference in days spent with the club between DA and ECNL.

 

[timmyh]

On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues. For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway? DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league

I don't think the quantity of the training is their point as much as the quality. I think the contention is that, with rare exception, the dozen+ months spent training in the high school environment is less likely to help a player maximize the fulfillment of their potential than a player who is instead spending that time in a top-level club environment.

The developmental difference of 3-4 months per year may not be huge (or worth the trade-off for skipping HS soccer for many), but it pretty inarguably exists and may become quite important if foreign players start increasing the competition for college roster spots. .

 

[Justafan]

I don't think the quantity of the training is their point as much as the quality. I think the contention is that, with rare exception, the dozen+ months spent training in the high school environment is less likely to help a player maximize the fulfillment of their potential than a player who is instead spending that time in a top-level club environment.

The developmental difference of 3-4 months per year may not be huge (or worth the trade-off for skipping HS soccer for many), but it pretty inarguably exists and may become quite important if foreign players start increasing the competition for college roster spots. .

No, the question is how much more time do you spend training with a DA team vs. your own club team (apples to apples) because of the time HS takes away from training with your own club team. If you compare apples to apples, you probably train about 4 weeks per year more with a DA team than a regular club team. I would argue that 4 weeks or 1 month a year is not that significant.

Here’s my formula and please correct me if I’m wrong. DA trains for 10 months and a Discovery level team trains for 8 months (I’ll use our club team as an example), so that’s 2 months difference per year. However, DA plays 16-30 games/yr (based on Q&A from website), while we play approx 50 (league-12; crl-12; thxgvg showcsse -3; vegas -4; man city 3/4; surf cup-4; blues cup-3/4; scrimmages about 5/6). So that’s at least around 12-15 more games than DA which amounts to about a months worth of training (i.e. 12-15 practice sessions). So yes, DA trains more than a regular team but it only translates to about 1 more month per year, not 4.

Also for that extra month of training, a regular club player puts in 4 months of high school. It’s nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, but it certainly is not DA. However, it is still touches on the ball almost everyday of the week.

So if there is a developmental difference, it’s not because of high school, it will be because of the difference in the club team themselves. If you train with a very good coach in a non DA team, you’re only training about 1 month less with your club team than a DA team trains with theirs.

 

[End of the Line]

Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.
It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:

There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players. In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born. In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born. That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world. Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches).

I see that number rising for the women significantly in the very near future. In the next decade, because of the boom in the number of quality international soccer players along with the fact that women have a fraction of the professional prospects that men have (thus making an American college scholarship quite an attractive proposition), it would not be surprising at all if that percentage rises from 1 in 20 to something like 4 or 5 in 20. If that happens, then those roster spots will obviously be at the expense of American players. The competition for scholarships for US players will increase dramatically.

The DA believes that spending 3 or 4 month for each of four straight years to leave the club and play high school soccer comes at a developmental cost to the individual player. I think everyone, even the most die-hard ECNL fan, would agree with that contention. With rare exception it's almost certainly true, but such commitment comes with an obvious cost. That cost is the very reasonable belief that the life experience and fun of playing high school soccer is well worth the minor developmental loss that comes with choosing to play in the generally inferior environment. I think even the most die-hard DA stans see the merit in that personal decision for many players. That tradeoff is now easier to justify because the average ECNL player still currently has quality collegiate options.

Putting all that together, though, the competition for college roster spots and money is about to get much more competitive as the rest of the world continues to improve the quality and quantity of its players who will be looking to play at an American college. If the DA is producing players who have more fully fulfilled their potential and are better equipped to fill the fewer spots available, then I think simple math would suggest that ECNL players will be getting the short end of the stick of being the ones shut out of those 3 or 4 roster spots that will probably soon be going to international players. It seems likely to me that the consequences of taking a total of 12-16 months off from a high-level club environment to play high school instead of club soccer may become a bit more stark in the near future than it is now.

Men's college coaches long ago come to the conclusion that boy players who have been in the DA environment are generally better equipped to be an impact college player. That day is likely coming for the women's game, too. And combined with the likely influx of impact international players, it seems to me the college scholarship squeeze could be coming for ECNL and especially other "independent" players.

The flaw in this, and with USSF's thinking, is that it wrongly assumes there is one best path for everyone. Sure, many will become marginally better if they skip HS and train with their club all year, but they can do that anyway. But forcing kids to skip HS if they want to play high level comp soccer just drives many kids to do something else because training 4x a week for club just isn't a lot of fun for most girls, who have better things to do. Not all HS programs suck, and there can be significant value for many kids playing HS even beyond getting a little recognition and joy out of the sport every once in a while. Playing HS almost invariably forces an elite comp player to be more assertive than playing club since they will inevitably be "the man", for example. And is likely to keep a lot more kids playing soccer and for longer than they would otherwise. Telling an 8th grade girl that their HS sports career is over before it began if they want to play soccer just means many kids will play some other sport. Like I have said many times, the only advantage the US has over other countries is that far more girls play the sport and for longer, and everything US Soccer does to deter anyone from playing the sport only helps level the playing field.

Another flaw is the assumption that more foreign players will overwhelm the college ranks. The reality is no one is getting any better, and there is absolutely no evidence that the rest of the World is closing any gaps. The WNT is the most dominating, and over the longest period of time, it has been in its entire history. When France gets better, Japan gets worse. When England gets better, Sweden gets worse. Worrying that foreigners will soon take all the college slots from our American girls is more than a little xenophobic, and there is nothing to support the proposition that the U.S. is falling behind.

That said, the WNT will soon start to fail, but not because kids play HS, and because of the biggest flaw in your argument, which is that the DA is generally better equipped to make an impact college player. That is true on the boys' side, but only because the DA wiped out the competition and the entire competitive landscape, so the only decent players must play DA. By default that makes them better equipped to be impact players than those who don't play DA. However, those impact college players (and all players produced in the DA) are worse overall than what the U.S. was producing pre-DA. The overall quality of boys youth players has declined significantly compared to the pre-DA era, and that cannot be reasonably disputed. After more than a decade of the DA, the MNT couldn't qualify for the WC, couldn't beat Trinidad and Tobago, and the new crop of players just got humiliated by Mexico. Sure they tied Uruguay, but without Suarez, Cavani, Godin, or anybody really. The current state of men's soccer is the worst it has ever been in the U.S., mostly because the US hasn't produced anyone who can play during the DA era. Even the mighty Pulisic can barely find the field for Chelsea. The DA system prohibits so many kids with potential from being able to play soccer at a high level even if they wanted to. Kids quit because it's too expensive, or too time consuming, or they can't impress HS cheerleaders, or the time commitment negatively impacts their grades, or they can't play football, or whatever the reason. The one thing USSF fails to understand is the only thing that can make a better soccer country is to have more kids play it, more often, and for a longer span of years. Everything abut the DA does the opposite of that.