2007 DA

[foreveryoung]

So the team that brings a big kid from Fresno to play in big games is really focusing in development?
lol
8-1 dude

I should have been clear that I wasn’t making assumptions about either team but was responding to your comment that a large score discrepancy speaks volumes at the U13 level.

I don’t have a stake in either of those teams, just kids playing soccer in general

 

[RedDevilDad]

I should have been clear that I wasn’t making assumptions about either team but was responding to your comment that a large score discrepancy speaks volumes at the U13 level.

I don’t have a stake in either of those teams, just kids playing soccer in general

Yeah, there is probably some truth to your point... amazing how mental plays a role at this age... some of these kids (not mine of course, haha) can't turn drama off and focus on the game, understandably so. Amazing how they can play as world beaters one weekend and then be annoyed that they had to go to bed at 9:30 instead of staying up till midnight, wake up in a bad mood and then act like they have never seen a soccer ball before. lol

 

[watfly]

What exactly does it mean? That one team is better at recruiting players versus developing them? That one coach is more focused on winning another on development? That one team has a lot of size another doesn’t? That one team is going to produce more professional players than the other?

They are 12. And there are so many variables. They may have just been hot and given up once the score was 5-1. Not great but again, they are 12. And this is the first season of 11 v 11. That’s a big transition for some more than others. They are not professionals. 8-1 in the premiere league would speak volumes.

What would be more telling is other factors. How many times did they play out of the back versus punting? How many passes did they complete? Did they execute the things they were working on in training last week? How many chances did they create? How many players have been with the club 2+ years versus new this year? Did PT players get minutes? It is the “development” academy right?

Scores are a part of and can help assess a teams progress but too much focus on scores and standings at 12 is just perpetuating the issues in youth sports and our inability to produce world class soccer players.

I generally agree with you. However, the reality of DA is it's really not about development at the end of the day. This is a result of what DA calls "meaningful games", which is a euphemism for winning. Coaches are under tremendous pressure to win. Particularly those coaches at clubs that don't have a full complement of DA age groups. If you don't win you won't be considered for additional age groups. With the creation of A & B tiers for the 18/19 age group, which I expect to trickle down to other ages, the pressure to win will be even greater. Some clubs also have a reputation to uphold, so losing isn't an option. If a club has the choice of recruiting a kid that rates a 9 on a scale of 10, or keeping a loyal kid that's a 8 that has the potential to be a 10, the club is most likely going to take the recruit. Clubs prefer shiny new objects.

Development of a DA team really only occurs within the span of a season. The development of teams then resets at the beginning of each season as teams gain or lose players. Recruitment takes priority over development, although some clubs are more aggressive at recruitment than others and some are better at development.

I think the fact we're all over analyzing the results of 12 year olds has more to do with entertainment value than anything else. Do I love winning, absolutely, but I prefer a well played loss over a poorly played win. Or at least that's what I need to keep telling myself this year because its unlikely that my son's team will be near the top half of the bracket.

 

[RedDevilDad]

DA is it's really not about development at the end of the day.

Agree... The way it ends up being about development is when quality coaches are involved. They develop talent because they are good coaches not because of the DA system.

Do I love winning, absolutely, but I prefer a well played loss over a poorly played win. Or at least that's what I need to keep telling my self this year because its unlikely that my son's team will be near the top half of the bracket this year.

We may be teammates and not know it. hahahaha... I've been telling myself this for 2 years and figure I have to stop saying it somewhere around 16. hahaha. #TooReal

 

[Kante]

Speaking of over-analyzing, here's predicts for this weekend.

(but, first, a quick note, the point of these predicts is to provide context to look at a team and see if they're improving relative their own past performance i.e are they developing. For example, the 1-8 loss that TFA took vs LAFC last week is notable, not because TFA lost 1-8 (lots of teams will lose by that kind of margin to LAFC this season), but because they had only lost in aggregate 4-8 to LAFC last year, and because TFA was the #2 team in the region.

The Boys DA would be more accurately be called the Identification Academy because US Soccer primarily sees the DA system as a means to ID players for the YNT. This isn't casting aspersions, this is what they've said.

But only 10% of the players will ever be called into a YNT camp (note difference btw camp and training center here), and that 10% likely have shot at playing "pro" somewhere (pro can be everything from EPL to tier 4 in Switzerland to a PDL club in the US hence the "pro" designation).

For the other 90% , DA provides families with the possibility to 1) leverage soccer to get into a college their kid might not otherwise get into 2) maybe get a partial scholarship.

But, again, this is not US Soccer's focus - at all - on the boys side.

Btw, can confirm a 100% that most teams/coaches/clubs - despite what they say or imply - do not develop players.

Have been looking at team improvement/decline over time for two years for socal clubs across u12 thru u15 age groups, hoping that some evidence of player development will show up but have only seen one (maybe two) instance where improvement occurred over time without adding new players and without overloading the team with early birthday - i.e. older - kids.)​

here's predicts for this weekend. home team is listed first. Have incorporated 2019-20 results but the algo is still largely based on 2018-19 u12 results, so please insert appropriate caveats about accuracy here.

San Diego
Albion 6 vs Arsenal 1
OC Surf 5 vs Chula Vista 1 note: Chula Vista generated an interesting result last week, keeping what the algo said was going to be a big blow-out manageable (although still 0-4). Will be interested to see if CV can beat the algo again this week.
Strikers 1 vs San Diego Surf 4
LAGSD 1 vs San Diego SC 6 note: key for LAGSD will trying to keep SDSC's DR ( seven goals in the last two games) under control
Murrieta Surf 5 vs Nomads 0

Los Angeles
Legends 1 vs TFA 2
Ventura Fusion 4 vs LAUFA 1
FC Golden State 2 vs Santa Barbara SC 4
LAFC 12 vs Pateadores 2
Real SoCal 2 vs Los Angeles Surf 3

 

[RedDevilDad]

In your order:
I think Arsenal and Albion will be a lot closer then 6-1.
I think Strikers has maintained and Surf dropped, meaning that could go either way and will be closer.
I also think FCGS has improved and won’t get 4 on them.

 

[foreveryoung]

I generally agree with you. However, the reality of DA is it's really not about development at the end of the day. This is a result of what DA calls "meaningful games", which is a euphemism for winning. Coaches are under tremendous pressure to win. Particularly those coaches at clubs that don't have a full complement of DA age groups. If you don't win you won't be considered for additional age groups. With the creation of A & B tiers for the 18/19 age group, which I expect to trickle down to other ages, the pressure to win will be even greater. Some clubs also have a reputation to uphold, so losing isn't an option. If a club has the choice of recruiting a kid that rates a 9 on a scale of 10, or keeping a loyal kid that's a 8 that has the potential to be a 10, the club is most likely going to take the recruit. Clubs prefer shiny new objects.

Development of a DA team really only occurs within the span of a season. The development of teams then resets at the beginning of each season as teams gain or lose players. Recruitment takes priority over development, although some clubs are more aggressive at recruitment than others and some are better at development.

I think the fact we're all over analyzing the results of 12 year olds has more to do with entertainment value than anything else. Do I love winning, absolutely, but I prefer a well played loss over a poorly played win. Or at least that's what I need to keep telling myself this year because its unlikely that my son's team will be near the top half of the bracket.

So we just accept the reality and continue to perpetuate it by being hyper focused on scores/standings?

Aren’t the parents (paying customers) a pretty big influence on the clubs/coaches? Yes I know they have the league to deal with but isn’t also about the parents and their demand to win? Don’t we have some role in the reality of the current atmosphere? If we really wanted to see the clubs/coaches focused on development then we should start being hyper focused on things that matter with regards to development. That means on this forum, on the sidelines, letting our coaches know, and in our decisions about what club and/or coach they play for. Find a coach or club that believes in development and creating a great soccer experience for their players and stick with them, even through the losses. This is how change happens.

On a related note, I spontaneously asked a dozen or so 2006 DA boys milling around before training (who didn’t know me and there were no other adults or coaches in ear shot) why they play soccer. Almost all of them responded without hesitation with some version of “because it’s fun”. A couple seemed shocked by the question and I wondered if those are the “because my parent makes me” kids. No one said “to play in college”, “to get a scholarship”, “to win”, “to be a professional player someday”, “to stay fit and competitive”. Just “because it’s fun”.

I then asked if you were on a team that lost all the time would you still want to play soccer or would you rather not play at all. They all said they would rather play soccer and lose all the time then not play at all.

We've created an environment that serves the adults and not the kids. I'm just suggesting we be more aware of that and if we want that to change, be aware of how we contribute to it.

 

[foreveryoung]

Have been looking at team improvement/decline over time for two years for socal clubs across u12 thru u15 age groups, hoping that some evidence of player development will show up but have only seen one (maybe two) instance where improvement occurred over time without adding new players and without overloading the team with early birthday - i.e. older - kids.)

Are you are using scores/standings to assess team improvement/decline or are there other factors as well?

 

[watfly]

Find a coach or club that believes in development and creating a great soccer experience for their players and stick with them, even through the losses. This is how change happens.

Agree wholeheartedly, and that's why we chose the coach and club we are with now. Great coach (teaching concepts that will prove successful in the long run), son is having fun again, but will not achieve many wins this season. As far as demanding change, I tried that. Last year we had a coach that was beyond verbally abusive and had a very strained relationship with the truth. I don't know how many kids he made cry from his berating. Kids that weren't even berated were crying out of sympathy, that is how mean spirited he was and how he frightened 10-11 year olds. Fortunately, my son was never really a direct target of being singled out for a verbal beat down, but the toxic environment that the coach created (aided by some parents) made my son reluctant to go to practice. It got to a point that before each practice he asked out loud "I wonder want kind of mood Coach Ahole is going to be in today." I finally contacted the club president regarding the situation with very detailed information about the repeated incidents. The president requested corroborating stories from other parents (1). I spoke to a number of other parents on the team who were fed up with the situation. Four or five families agreed to also contact the club president. You know how many families followed through? One, that's it. You now what happened to the coach despite ample evidence of his misdeeds? Nothing. I tried, but the club soccer machine has gotten too powerful and parents are afraid to speak out for fear of retribution against their child and missing the opportunity of being on a winning team.

I'm not going to apologize for being entertained by the wins and losses of the DA teams my son competes against. It's hardly contributing to "the problem" because that ship has sailed. We all just have to find the best situation for our kids, I hope we're in that place now. Good luck.

(1)As a matter of note, some families had disclosed the coaches abuse in the clubs anonymous end of the year evaluation (calendar year, long before DA season is over), which the president claimed to know nothing about, and said it didn't matter anyway since the evaluations were anonymous it was nothing they could follow up with the parents. Genius!

 

[foreveryoung]

Agree wholeheartedly, and that's why we chose the coach and club we are with now. Great coach (teaching concepts that will prove successful in the long run), son is having fun again, but will not achieve many wins this season. As far as demanding change, I tried that. Last year we had a coach that was beyond verbally abusive and had a very strained relationship with the truth. I don't know how many kids he made cry from his berating. Kids that weren't even berated were crying out of sympathy, that is how mean spirited he was and how he frightened 10-11 year olds. Fortunately, my son was never really a direct target of being singled out for a verbal beat down, but the toxic environment that the coach created (aided by some parents) made my son reluctant to go to practice. It got to a point that before each practice he asked out loud "I wonder want kind of mood Coach Ahole is going to be in today." I finally contacted the club president regarding the situation with very detailed information about the repeated incidents. The president requested corroborating stories from other parents (1). I spoke to a number of other parents on the team who were fed up with the situation. Four or five families agreed to also contact the club president. You know how many families followed through? One, that's it. You now what happened to the coach despite ample evidence of his misdeeds? Nothing. I tried, but the club soccer machine has gotten too powerful and parents are afraid to speak out for fear of retribution against their child and missing the opportunity of being on a winning team.

I'm not going to apologize for being entertained by the wins and losses of the DA teams my son competes against. It's hardly contributing to "the problem" because that ship has sailed. We all just have to find the best situation for our kids, I hope we're in that place now. Good luck.

(1)As a matter of note, some families had disclosed the coaches abuse in the clubs anonymous end of the year evaluation (calendar year, long before DA season is over), which the president claimed to know nothing about, and said it didn't matter anyway since the evaluations were anonymous it was nothing they could follow up with the parents. Genius!

You did do something, you left the coach/club. You can only control your actions. And change doesn't happen overnight. And I never asked anyone to apologize for being entertained by wins/losses. If you recall, my response began as a response to the "speaks volumes" comment. I'm suggesting we be more aware of being hyper-focused on the scores of 12 year old soccer matches.

 

[Kante]

Are you are using scores/standings to assess team improvement/decline or are there other factors as well?

not standings, only scores but in relative terms.

for example, team A plays team B. on average, team A scores 5 goals per game but team B only allowed 2 goals when they played. So, team B would have a -60% goals allowed % score for that game.

then, look at team B goals allowed % for each game over the course of the season from game 1 thru game x.

over time, does team B's goals allowed % trend better, worse or stay the same? trending better - in the absence of adding new players - indicates development

this process/metric allows teams from LAFC to Chula Vista to evaluate progress/development in more meaningful terms than wins/losses and standings. yes, there's lot of variables (eg, do coaches play 2nd string in 1h (LAFC), do coaches ease off the gas in blow-outs, player injuries etc) but generally the variables average out of the length of the season to show solid/accurate picture of improvement or decline.

things like style of play matter but are (highly) subjective and, unless there is video available on games (and people with time available), evaluating style of play is not practical.

 

[watfly]

You did do something, you left the coach/club. You can only control your actions. And change doesn't happen overnight. And I never asked anyone to apologize for being entertained by wins/losses. If you recall, my response began as a response to the "speaks volumes" comment. I'm suggesting we be more aware of being hyper-focused on the scores of 12 year old soccer matches.

Fair enough. You and I will vote, or have voted, with our feet. Unfortunately, there are way more families in line to take our place on that winning team, so the Club never gets the message. They can just check the "disgruntled parent" box.

 

[foreveryoung]

Fair enough. You and I will vote, or have voted, with our feet. Unfortunately, there are way more families in line to take our place on that winning team, so the Club never gets the message. They can just check the "disgruntled parent" box.

And in my experience with the many parents I have seen that have left a team for the winning team it has never worked out the way they wanted it to. They find themselves replaced by the next shiny object, or the team falls apart the next year, or they lack playing time and/or realize the grass wasn't any greener. What you put out to the universe will always come back to you.

 

[RedDevilDad]

Well... what do you know?
How’d you all do today? A bunch of 9am games.

 

[RedDevilDad]

Strikers 1-1 SD Surf
LAGSD 0-0 SDSC
TFA 1-1 Legends
Arsenal 3-1 Albion

 

[RedDevilDad]

SDSC tied 0-0 with LAGSD.
From LAGSD friend:
We basically played smart soccer game, kept possession and avoided a quick counter as that would have left us exposed. They are a possession team, but to be honest they lost a lot of balls by bad passes. Particularly in the middle. SDSC did have more chance than us, but we played the defensive gave and let them come to us.. Today we actually had some great potential attacks, but like 3 on 2 but we seemed to be afraid to penetrate and shoot from outside. I feel if we had a bit more physical attack it would have given us a a goal
They were also vulnerable with thru passes in the corners.

From Murrieta Surf friend:
No... we play tomorrow. Maybe we can get out of our half.
Lol.

Arsenal and Albion:
Arsenal overran Albion and could have easily had 6 but wasted a few solid chances. Albion has good players but got clearly out-coached. Couldn’t adjust to Arsenal and kept trying to come down their right side with no joy. Albion’s only goal was confounding-ly offsides. Shot bounced off the goal post and was scored by the player behind the goalkeeper. Maybe the ref thought there was a deflection? Albion’s first half goalie was phenomenal in the air but very nervous in possession. 2nd goalkeeper was noticeably less competitive. Albion has some good sized players but looks like a team with some really good players used to beating people individually whereas Arsenal looked like a good team of good players that are disciplined.
8-0 loss to albion last year to 3-1 win and same 8-1 to murrieta last year to a 1-0 good contested loss this year hints that Arsenal has improved.

From Legends friend:
We were good. Tied TFA 1-1. No way they could give up 8 goals to LAFC. (I sent him the game report and the conversation ended, lol)

 

[Ed Ho]

SDSC tied 0-0 with LAGSD.
From LAGSD friend:
We basically played smart soccer game, kept possession and avoided a quick counter as that would have left us exposed. They are a possession team, but to be honest they lost a lot of balls by bad passes. Particularly in the middle. SDSC did have more chance than us, but we played the defensive gave and let them come to us.. Today we actually had some great potential attacks, but like 3 on 2 but we seemed to be afraid to penetrate and shoot from outside. I feel if we had a bit more physical attack it would have given us a a goal
They were also vulnerable with thru passes in the corners.

From Murrieta Surf friend:
No... we play tomorrow. Maybe we can get out of our half.
Lol.

Arsenal and Albion:
Arsenal overran Albion and could have easily had 6 but wasted a few solid chances. Albion has good players but got clearly out-coached. Couldn’t adjust to Arsenal and kept trying to come down their right side with no joy. Albion’s only goal was confounding-ly offsides. Shot bounced off the goal post and was scored by the player behind the goalkeeper. Maybe the ref thought there was a deflection? Albion’s first half goalie was phenomenal in the air but very nervous in possession. 2nd goalkeeper was noticeably less competitive. Albion has some good sized players but looks like a team with some really good players used to beating people individually whereas Arsenal looked like a good team of good players that are disciplined.
8-0 loss to albion last year to 3-1 win and same 8-1 to murrieta last year to a 1-0 good contested loss this year hints that Arsenal has improved.

From Legends friend:
We were good. Tied TFA 1-1. No way they could give up 8 goals to LAFC. (I sent him the game report and the conversation ended, lol)

Love the game insights - thanks Red Devil.

 

[JB805]

Is there a way to find the roster of a team from the 2018-2019 season?

 

[RedDevilDad]

Is there a way to find the roster of a team from the 2018-2019 season?

Hm... good question. The team manager can access previous seasons. If you are wondering about a player specifically, you can click on his name and it will tell you if he played and where/when.

In theory, you could go to the schedule and see a game report from a previous season (of a U13 or older team) and the roster is there.

 

[JB805]

Hm... good question. The team manager can access previous seasons. If you are wondering about a player specifically, you can click on his name and it will tell you if he played and where/when.

In theory, you could go to the schedule and see a game report from a previous season (of a U13 or older team) and the roster is there.

Got it from the game report as you suggested. Thanks!

 

[RedDevilDad]

Heard that Murrieta Surf won 2-0 over a "weak Nomads."

Meaning the whole SD side results are:
Murrieta 2-0 Nomads
Arsenal 3-1 Albion
Strikers 1-1 SD Surf
OC Surf 2-2 Chula Vista
LAGSD 0-0 SDSC
Real SL 2-1 del Sol