New ECNL Clubs

Dabizness said:
Really? How so?
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Surf used to be the only ECNL club in SD county. Most of the other SoCal ECNL clubs were clustered close to each other in Orange County. ECNL would regularly deny entry to any other SoCal club. In my opinion it was an attempt to preserve the monopoly of some of the clubs in a geographical area.
 
Dabizness said:
Really? How so?
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Previous ECNL landscape:

- Eagles (Camarillo)
- Real SoCal (Thousand Oaks)
- Arsenal (San Bernardino)
- West Coast (OC)
- Slammers (Newport OC)
- Strikers (OC)
-Blues (South OC)
- Surf (SD)

They left a large part of LA County unserviced. Had they simply accepted Legends and LA galaxy or Beach over the years of trying, they would have all but avoided the DA.
 
outside! said:
Surf used to be the only ECNL club in SD county. Most of the other SoCal ECNL clubs were clustered close to each other in Orange County. ECNL would regularly deny entry to any other SoCal club. In my opinion it was an attempt to preserve the monopoly of some of the clubs in a geographical area.
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Exactly!!! In cahoots!

So how did surf fall out of favor with ECNL? Why has Blues been able to have both ECNL and DA? because of the ECNL Championships last year?

There are clubs/teams in SD county that can be bolstered by entrance into ECNL (attract and develop players/teams) and raise the overall level of play in the ECNL SW region.

Is money only logical reason?
 
Dabizness said:
There are clubs/teams in SD county that can be bolstered by entrance into ECNL (attract and develop players/teams) and raise the overall level of play in the ECNL SW region.
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Looks like that is the plan with the adddition of DMCV and LA Breakers.

It wasn’t just Surf. All of the ECNL clubs voted to add teams, but each Club was already benefiting from their respective “monopolies” and pulling kids from unserviced regions into their systems/$’s to their pockets.
 
outside! said:
It has always been about the $$$$.
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Follow the money? Does this hold true for th DA as well? Does that explain Surf choosing DA over ECNL?

Kicker4Life said:
Previous ECNL landscape:

- Eagles (Camarillo)
- Real SoCal (Thousand Oaks)
- Arsenal (San Bernardino)
- West Coast (OC)
- Slammers (Newport OC)
- Strikers (OC)
-Blues (South OC)
- Surf (SD)

They left a large part of LA County unserviced. Had they simply accepted Legends and LA galaxy or Beach over the years of trying, they would have all but avoided the DA.
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It seems like the mission and vision for the DA might not be altogether truthful? Is the DA a means to enable a different set of folks to financially benefit and cut into ECNL league/club profit? It just seems like the “industry of youth soccer “ is just reshuffling is go gets what piece of the financial pie?

If it was truly player centered, then the Federation and governing bodies would Create a STABLE structure for youth soccer. This would include a regional balance of the most well organized Clubs with established curricula so travel is minimized and choice is maximized. Only the best licensed coaches would be hired based on ability to teach and develop soccer players. The system of development would include games and showcases designed to allow players to grow and develop, and not enable a pay for play and win at all cost mentality on the part of coaches/directors.
 
Dabizness said:
Exactly!!! In cahoots!

(1)So how did surf fall out of favor with ECNL? (2) Why has Blues been able to have both ECNL and DA? (3) because of the ECNL Championships last year?

(4) There are clubs/teams in SD county that can be bolstered by entrance into ECNL (attract and develop players/teams) and raise the overall level of play in the ECNL SW region.

Is money only logical reason?
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#1 - power play by ECNL,
#2 - they met the ever changing requirements by ECNL to continue to have both - for now,
#3 - yes,
#4 - perhaps
or so I understand.
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
#1 - power play by ECNL,
#2 - they met the ever changing requirements by ECNL to continue to have both - for now,
#3 - yes,
#4 - perhaps
or so I understand.
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Was ECNL's requirements any different than DA? Both want/ed the teams in league to be the top team from each club. ECNL worked with clubs that had both and allowed those that won championships last year (Blues) to have both while those that didn't (Surf), had to choose. ECNL seems more flexible than DA, as they required every team to be the top team.

Would love to hear Surf's perspective on the changing requirements as other clubs in SW division have said the requirements were clear from the start. RB seems to be selling something different to the Surf DPL parents.

No doubt Slammers going "all-in" for ECNL likely took away some flexibility that ECNL may have given for Surf to stay one more year to win an ECNL championship.

Heard Blues is keeping both for 19/20 as well.
 
Carlsbad10 said:
Was ECNL's requirements any different than DA? Both want/ed the teams in league to be the top team from each club. ECNL worked with clubs that had both and allowed those that won championships last year (Blues) to have both while those that didn't (Surf), had to choose. ECNL seems more flexible than DA, as they required every team to be the top team.

Would love to hear Surf's perspective on the changing requirements as other clubs in SW division have said the requirements were clear from the start. RB seems to be selling something different to the Surf DPL parents.

No doubt Slammers going "all-in" for ECNL likely took away some flexibility that ECNL may have given for Surf to stay one more year to win an ECNL championship.

Heard Blues is keeping both for 19/20 as well.
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The dual club situation creates a problem as both DA & ECNL require the "top" teams to be placed in their respective programs (as I understand it). I am not sure that ECNL is really working with any club to help them retain dual status, it just so happened that Blues won an ECNL championship which allowed them to meet the ECNL requirements to keep ECNL while still having DA. ECNL had leverage if you didn't win a championship, they could have decided to make an exception. As was explained to us, ECNL changed their requirements multiple times; maybe the written requirements and the verbal agreements that were made were different. Every club will see how it was handled through their own set of glasses; this was a surprise move to some. Without the Slammers going all in I am not sure that ECNL makes the move with Surf.

What will be interesting to see is how former ECNL clubs respond. If it happened as I understand it I would not be surprised to see DPL clubs do everything in their power to make ECNL irrelevant.
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
The dual club situation creates a problem as both DA & ECNL require the "top" teams to be placed in their respective programs (as I understand it). I am not sure that ECNL is really working with any club to help them retain dual status, it just so happened that Blues won an ECNL championship which allowed them to meet the ECNL requirements to keep ECNL while still having DA. ECNL had leverage if you didn't win a championship, they could have decided to make an exception. As was explained to us, ECNL changed their requirements multiple times; maybe the written requirements and the verbal agreements that were made were different. Every club will see how it was handled through their own set of glasses; this was a surprise move to some. Without the Slammers going all in I am not sure that ECNL makes the move with Surf.

What will be interesting to see is how former ECNL clubs respond. If it happened as I understand it I would not be surprised to see DPL clubs do everything in their power to make ECNL irrelevant.
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Who is “running” or making decisions and policy for the DPL? Is it run by a the club directors? Is DPL...only in SoCal? Or nationwide?

What is it’s targeted market sector? Compared to ECNL and the DA?

I think you bring up a key point, how does the ECNL respond? Obviously Blues cannot put their “top team” in both leagues. So what do they choose to do with their players and teams? I suspect that their second team will be placed in the ECNL...no?

ECNL has a national platform which is established and can use that to strengthen their service or weaken it by their decisions regarding clubs they allow in or out in SoCal. I go back to the original inquiry... whether it’s ECNL, DA, or DPL... these leagues are able to segregate, prohibit, and limit access and choice to kids/parents. Again, not player centered! Certain areas have no choice...and as a result kids and parents have to play for a certain club or coach (they may not want to) in order to play at a high level.
 
Dabizness said:
(1)Who is “running” or making decisions and policy for the DPL? Is it run by a the club directors? (2)Is DPL...only in SoCal? Or nationwide?

(3) What is it’s targeted market sector? Compared to ECNL and the DA?

(4)I think you bring up a key point, how does the ECNL respond? Obviously Blues cannot put their “top team” in both leagues. So what do they choose to do with their players and teams? I suspect that their second team will be placed in the ECNL...no?

ECNL has a national platform which is established and can use that to strengthen their service or weaken it by their decisions regarding clubs they allow in or out in SoCal. I go back to the original inquiry... whether it’s ECNL, DA, or DPL... these leagues are able to segregate, prohibit, and limit access and choice to kids/parents. (5)Again, not player centered! Certain areas have no choice...and as a result kids and parents have to play for a certain club or coach (they may not want to) in order to play at a high level.
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1 - Club directors (DPL was created by DA only clubs to compete with DA/ECNL clubs - they needed/wanted something to hang onto 2nd team talent),
2 - Originally SoCal only but there is a DPL pilot in Texas. I believe the SoCal league has nothing to do with DA, but the Texas league is actually a pilot program by the federation that runs DA,
3 - Not sure how to answer, both programs want/demand top teams at respective clubs - I would guess each dual club will have a day of reckoning where they have to choose,
4 - ECNL got kicked in the nuts by DA, but has been doing everything they can to stay/regain their relevance. Not sure where each Blues team falls into place,
5 - This isn't about the players (IMO). Very little of this actually helps aggregate and promote talent.
I guess choice is good as a consumer but leagues are watered down due to talent being spread around.
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
If it happened as I understand it I would not be surprised to see DPL clubs do everything in their power to make ECNL irrelevant.
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For the less influential clubs, I'm sure that's the case. But Surf as an organization definitely want to maintain a good relationship with ECNL. This will become clear over the coming months.
 
futboldad1 said:
For the less influential clubs, I'm sure that's the case. But Surf as an organization definitely want to maintain a good relationship with ECNL. This will become clear over the coming months.
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ECNL forced Surf in making a decision. It’s Surf who have the upper hand.
 
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Dabizness said:
I think you bring up a key point, how does the ECNL respond? Obviously Blues cannot put their “top team” in both leagues. So what do they choose to do with their players and teams? I suspect that their second team will be placed in the ECNL...no?
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Blues is an anomaly. At least until Baker's teams age out. His older teams will stay ECNL, because many like HS soccer and play for Jserra under B as well. There will be some that head off to college after this season. Others will stay composite or U19. Their YNT players don't need DA, don't want it and are already recruited. Baker's teams will win championships again this year and no one will be shocked. However, the DA teams are another story. Blues went out recruiting hard last year. Fielded some decent teams at some age groups, mostly younger. But without Baker, Blues other ECNL teams are not strong enough to win a championship, this year or next. So, to answer your question, yes, at Blues the ECNL is the second team, excluding Bakers two teams (U19 and U18/19 Composite)
 
Also consider that Surf is a brand. Just about all the "surf" clubs are separate entities that license the brand. Murrieta Surf, Inland Empire (now Legends), etc. Nothing prevents any of these other affiliates from applying to the ECNL and filling a void or two left by clubs high tailing it for the DA.

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
1 - Club directors (DPL was created by DA only clubs to compete with DA/ECNL clubs - they needed/wanted something to hang onto 2nd team talent),
2 - Originally SoCal only but there is a DPL pilot in Texas. I believe the SoCal league has nothing to do with DA, but the Texas league is actually a pilot program by the federation that runs DA,
3 - Not sure how to answer, both programs want/demand top teams at respective clubs - I would guess each dual club will have a day of reckoning where they have to choose,
4 - ECNL got kicked in the nuts by DA, but has been doing everything they can to stay/regain their relevance. Not sure where each Blues team falls into place,
5 - This isn't about the players (IMO). Very little of this actually helps aggregate and promote talent.
I guess choice is good as a consumer but leagues are watered down due to talent being spread around.
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"ECNL got kicked in the nuts..." Good line.

The DA is definitely NOT about the players, its about finding talent to fill the Youth National Team and National Team, that is the mission of US Soccer. The players can benefit, nonetheless, by understanding the system and working within that system.
 
CopaMundial said:
Blues is an anomaly. At least until Baker's teams age out. His older teams will stay ECNL, because many like HS soccer and play for Jserra under B as well. There will be some that head off to college after this season. Others will stay composite or U19. Their YNT players don't need DA, don't want it and are already recruited. Baker's teams will win championships again this year and no one will be shocked. However, the DA teams are another story. Blues went out recruiting hard last year. Fielded some decent teams at some age groups, mostly younger. But without Baker, Blues other ECNL teams are not strong enough to win a championship, this year or next. So, to answer your question, yes, at Blues the ECNL is the second team, excluding Bakers two teams (U19 and U18/19 Composite)
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For example I was told Blues 05 DA is their top team.
 
ToonArmy said:
Since they don't play in DPL where 06 pre academy teams play this year does their A team play in ECNL this year and B team flight 1?
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Right, but since DA starts at ‘06 for the ‘19/20 season, what team will be DA and what team will be ECNL currently their top ‘06 team is ECNL?
 
MWN said:
Also consider that Surf is a brand. Just about all the "surf" clubs are separate entities that license the brand. Murrieta Surf, Inland Empire (now Legends), etc. Nothing prevents any of these other affiliates from applying to the ECNL and filling a void or two left by clubs high tailing it for the DA.
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Usually true, but OC are more centralized than a simple licensee such as Murrieta.
LASTMAN14 said:
ECNL forced Surf in making a decision. It’s Surf who have the upper hand.
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My point was that Surf are not going to try and delegitimize ECNL in an attempt to make DPL relevant as ECNL is not a pathway they've turned their back on. A good relationship remains between the two.
 
futboldad1 said:
Usually true, but OC are more centralized than a simple licensee such as Murrieta.


My point was that Surf are not going to try and delegitimize ECNL in an attempt to make DPL relevant as ECNL is not a pathway they've turned their back on. A good relationship remains between the two.
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Agree with you. My response was to add to your statement.
 
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