Play High School or Not?
- Thread starter greekgirl
- Start date
Simisoccerfan
PREMIER
Well study showed a lot more injuries in games then training. The another main conclusion centered around being fit, maintaining fitness, and pre and post game warm ups and cool downs.
That really depends on the type of training they are getting, how the coach manages the work load week to week. I don’t mean to sound redundant but it really does depend on the coach. The good ones will navigate the season, change the level of intensity at practices throughout the season....no matter what league.
End of the Line
SILVER ELITE
Thank you for finally putting in some thought rather than reflexively being your usual self. You know what, I agree with you that playing too many games is likely to increase the injury risk, especially if you repeatedly play full HS games. In fact, I'll even add that the HS rule of having OT for non-playoff games is ludicrous. See, it isn't so hard to agree with the obvious. I think we can also agree that one way to reduce the risk of injury is to ensure that kids are in better shape physically and mentally. As some point, the benefit of increased training (including strength training and increasing stamina) no longer becomes a benefit and instead becomes an increased injury risk, and that perfect mix varies by kid in a way that you'll never be able to gauge exactly where that line must be drawn. But studies very clearly show that it should be drawn at forcing girls to play 90 minutes without sufficient rest.
But that still doesn't change the fact that 6 kids per game being forced to play 90 minutes has probably the most significant direct impact on the increased risk of a catastrophic knee injury than anything else, and there is no legitimate reason to have it in the first place. It also doesn't change the fact that kids can play a lot more games than GDA allows, so long as they properly manage it, but too many parents seem to think that this is something that is outside their scope of responsibility or even concern.
Where you and others go wrong, sir, is that you believe that there are two options that must be accepted as they are. You seem to think there is either GDA in its current format or there is non-GDA in its current format when, in fact, all of them can be improved. When kids decide to play HS, it is not because they think it will reduce the risk of knee injury. To the extent is a consideration at all, it is because they think HS and the higher injury risk still makes it a better option for them despite the risk to their knees. Which tells you a lot about how bad the GDA platform is and why it's failing.
End of the Line
SILVER ELITE
Actually no. The link relates specifically to soccer, and also cites other studies that relate specifically to soccer, as well as other sports including basketball. The first article I quoted is also soccer specific.
The studies I cited very clearly show that minutes played in a game substantially increases the injury risk in soccer players, whereas game density does not appear to have an impact on younger players. With respect to 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes specifically, I need to dumb things down for people by providing examples because the studies use technical terms like "game density" and utilize some pretty sophisticated analysis and graphs that are too much for people like yourself. In the end, I have identified a number of studies that support what I am saying, but you just don't care to read them. I am also still the only person to provide any medical studies at all, and all of them definitively state that a kid playing 90 minutes is stupid. As I said earlier (which you ignored), reasonable minds may differ with respect to playing 3 days in a row at 75 minutes (ECNL) vs. 2 in a row at 90 (GDA), but the studies I've cited suggest I'm right and you haven't shown anything to the contrary. You've just said "nuh uh" and misrepresented what is in the studies, which is fine because you aren't my audience. Anyone with a real interest will read the what I have posted and realize that I am providing medical information from MIT and PhDs, and you're MarkM. Unlike you, I'm not telling anyone to rely on what I am saying. You're the only one doing that.
End of the Line
SILVER ELITE
The interesting thing here is that you believe that these clubs left because of HS (and maybe cost), not the annoyance of having to play before finals. But wanting to play HS and not wanting to deal with the headache of dealing with being gone before finals week (at significant cost) are not mutually exclusive. All of the clubs that left did so because GDA hurt the bottom line and was risking running off many of consumers and revenue. And when many consumers were saying HS and another comp platform were a better option, why was that? In the end, it is because HS is more fun, and one of the things that makes it a better choice for them is that they don't need to deal with any of the headaches of GDA.
Why do you think USSF holds the winter showcase when it does? Not because it is the ideal time to hold it, that is for sure. USSF holds it when it does because it wants to put it as far into HS soccer season as possible as a deterrent to losing kids to HS. The only carrot GDA has is that mid-level players (or younger kids) get access to college coaches at its showcases. I thinks it can force them to give up HS because they (probably rightfully) believe it is the better option. But GDA's carrot doesn't have any weight for kids who've either already committed, alphas that don't need GDA to get recruited, or kids who don't have a 4.8 gpa or who are more committed to academics than a soccer tournament in Florida.
I can’t argue with crazy......you win
End of the Line
SILVER ELITE
Happy to oblige....
Coaches exploiting kids by playing too much is certainly a problem, and USSF should focus more effort on dealing with this serious issue instead of creating a platform that requires coaches to exploit them.
Your argument about studies showing that driving longer in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident is addressed and refuted for its faulty logic in the article I posted earlier, so I refer you to that. But I can also add that you are wrong about that too. If you review commercial driving studies, you'll see that driving a lot of consecutive hours leads to a significant increase in the likelihood of an accident due to mental fatigue. Here's one. https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Commercial_Motor_Vehicle_Operations/download. It shows that there isn't a meaningful increased risk of an accident at first, just like in a soccer game, but once you past a certain point (the 10th hour of driving or around the 40th consecutive minute of soccer), you start to break down mentally and mental fatigue then because a leading cause for both motor vehicle accidents and soccer injuries. What is most fascinating, though, is that the study shows that taking breaks during the driving can be a great way to reduce the risk of an accident, just like a break during a soccer game is a great way to reduce the risk of injury.
As for your ACL tears, you are correct that they're no laughing matter, which is why I'm actually providing people with medical studies instead of suggesting to people that it's ok for their kids to play 90 minute games because they tore their ACL some other way. That said, your argument is no different than claiming that no one has an increased risk of getting STDs from hookers because you got yours from your girlfriend and not the hooker.
I would be interested in your explanation about how you incurred an ACL injury if you think it is helpful for others. Given that you've had three, however, I suspect you may be the last person anyone should listen to in a discussion about how to avoid ACL injuries.
Since we are talking about ACL injury and fatigue here are a few more interesting articles for those are interested and willing to put in the effort to read the scientific research and acquire some knowledge .....
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005768-200908000-00017
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/43/13/1049
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005768-200908000-00017
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/43/13/1049
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm
Surfref
PREMIER
What I think is really funny is that GDA players/teams are supposed to be “the elite players” and supposedly in top physical shape, but are limited to playing one game a day. While, the SCDSL, CSL and Presidio/SDDA teams are looked on as being low level and not in great physical shape, especially Silver/Bronze/Tier 2/3, and they routinely play 2-3 games a day during tournaments. It seems to me that the GDA teams should be the ones playing multiple games in a day and the other “low level” teams only playing one game. Just an observation.
Soccerfan2
GOLD
Ha! I was wondering how long it would take you. I give you much credit for your endurance!
How many pro players or college players play more than one game a day? Are they not Elite Athletes?
Honestly....does having the ability to, but not playing 2 games in a day somehow exclude you from being an elite athelete?
Yah....I thought there was hope for a minute there.
Surfref
PREMIER
What I should have ended with was that I don't think it is healthy for any players to be playing multiple games in a day or 4-6 games over a weekend.
Multi Sport
DA
There are always teachers who don't care what your reason is. My DD had one in HS and did not allow her or two other teammates take a test they missed for.. HS soccer. I made a call and she was allowed to make up the test. The teachers excuse was that she is bipolar and was having a rough day.
But then you have the flip side. My kid sister ended up having the same Algebra 2 teacher that I did in HS, Mrs. Smith. I struggled big time to get a B . My sister? Well I guess the teacher must have remembered me so she told my sister that as long as she does all the homework that she would give her a C. The difference between my sister and I (besides 17 years) was she was a standout athlete who had led the school to two CIF Championships and was inline to get a D1 scholarship. Me.. I played Right Field and batted ninth.
Mrs. Smith also made my sister promise to never take Math again.
Not sure why everyone still has the misconception that DA players cannot play high school soccer. It was done quiet frequently when my ds was playing, even at public schools. Currently, I am hearing from friends that coach girls at private high schools that they have DA players and no they are not financially needy and are also still playing DA.
There are exceptions for private schools. http://www.ussoccerda.com/faq
Can Academy clubs participate in non-Academy competitions?
To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from the U.S. Soccer Development Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only one exception: National Team duty. Development Academy players for all teams must choose to participate in the Academy full-time and forgo playing for his high school team.
Kicknit22
GOLD
It’s not a misconception. Yes, there are quite a few kids that are ditching out on DA come HS season, at the older/oldest age group. I suspect that, unless changes are made, this will continue to happen, year after year. Most girls will not give up thier senior year, whether DA exposure has helped them land their future school or not. JMO
Sheriff Joe
DA
That would explain many posters in these here parts.