Play High School or Not?

Multi Sport said:
So this happens every year?

As for getting ready for finals? If your kid knows in advance that they will be missing finals they can communicate this with their teachers and make proper arrangements.

Does it help them prepare for college. I would argue that it could. My DD is graduating from College this Spring and the rigors of playing soccer in college, practice, travel and a heavy scholastic schedule is anything but easy. Your kid hopefully already has great study habits and is used to studying on the road.
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Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together. They have a schedule for each day that includes: Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings. So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.
 
Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros. Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.
 
Kicker4Life said:
Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together. They have a schedule for each day that includes: Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings. So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.
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We had a similar situation when my son traveled to Dallas Cup. We all stayed in the same hotel, the hotel had a dining room set up for Dallas Cup teams (breakfasts were part of the package), and we went out together for dinner. I don't think anyone actually studied - in my son's school, spring break was the week after we got back so he did his work then (and I believed him when he told me that).
 
Fact said:
Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros. Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.
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I’m sure it’s true and no, it’s not ideal to miss school. But it also isn’t as catastrophic as its being portrayed when handled proactively.

Thanks for the input!
 
Kicker4Life said:
According to whom, you?
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According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
 
MarkM said:
I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions. But you are a liar, and repeatedly. How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30? There is this thing called the internet. People can look that kind of stuff up. Why does someone so righteous have to make things up? Weird, huh?

But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school. My kid seems to be handling it just fine though. Do you know kids that can't handle it? Is your kid struggling? If so, I'm sorry to hear that. My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics. Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.

As to your second point, if your kid is any good, she is playing 90 minutes regardless of whether its DA or ECNL. Based on your comments, it sounds like you really never experience that. Again, I'm sorry to hear that your kid can't ever get 90 minutes in an ECNL game. At any rate, with ECNL, good kids are playing 3, ninety minute games over 3 days. With GDA, kids are playing 3 games over 4 days. You tell me what is better for kids' health?

As to discussion about the pill, I have no clue what you are talking about and I don't care.
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End of the Line said:
As for you comment about snow, click below:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2016
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2017

Thank you for at least conceding it is not a good idea to miss school; you are the first person to do that. Whether your kid or my kid can handle missing school is not relevant to the question. I'm sure most can put up with it, but being able to put up with something and being a good idea are two very different things. If it were a good idea to make kids miss school before finals, everyone would be doing it, right? Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back, and without a good reason. GDA would be a much better platform if excellent clubs and players weren't leaving it because USSF does things like this. Do you agree with that?

As for game length, no. First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old. Second, sure, there are many bad ECNL and other coaches who will ride players too hard, that is the coach that is the problem, not the platform. When GDA forces all coaches to ride kids too hard, that is the platform that is the problem and not the coach. Third, although reasonable minds may differ, 3 games over 3 days is likely to be better when you properly manage minutes. The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once. If you have studies that show otherwise, I would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals. Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it. Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post. It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk. If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.
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Dude, where is the link to April 2018? It was easy to check 2018. I thought you said it snowed the last three years in Commerce? I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying. Why did you lie?

"The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
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I’ve spoken to staff at LAFC/Slammers prior to their move away from DA was announced. It was not for any of your arguments.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters. Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious. I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan. I think I can turn him around. Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
Click to expand...
The Hawks were in DA?
 
MarkM said:
Dude, where is the link to April 2018? It was easy to check 2018. I thought you said it snowed the last three years in Commerce? I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying. Why did you lie?

"The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
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I apologize. It looks like it only snowed the day before in April 2018 and not that much. You got me. An April Showcase in Colorado is the best place for a showcase that weekend.
 
MarkM said:
The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once." Huh? What medical consensus? Stop it clown. The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.
Click to expand...

This is like deja vu all over again. Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​

But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/th...y-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/ Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.

Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (1, 2), rugby and basketball.​

Your turn Doc. @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him. I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.
 
End of the Line said:
According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.
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I asked who? As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it). Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons. ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.

I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this. I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)

That reminds me....you still standing by this statement:
End of the Line said:
BTW, I didn't ask you to make a case for GDA over ECNL.
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Yah...didn’t think so.

I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)? Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument? ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.

End of the Line said:
Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."
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Ok this seems to be the last argument you can deflect towards. So let’s play jeopardy, I’ll give you 2 answers and you can give me your answer in the form of a question:

Answer #1 is: 61 degrees
Answer #2 is a 3 parter so bear with me:
a) 22%
b) <5%
c) >1%

You can avoid answering these too, if yo wish.....but the rest of you can play along as well if you want.
 
Kicker4Life said:
I asked who? As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it). Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons. ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.

I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this. I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)

That reminds me....you still standing by this statement:

Yah...didn’t think so.

I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)? Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument? ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.


Ok this seems to be the last argument you can deflect towards. So let’s play jeopardy, I’ll give you 2 answers and you can give me your answer in the form of a question:

Answer #1 is: 61 degrees
Answer #2 is a 3 parter so bear with me:
a) 22%
b) <5%
c) >1%

You can avoid answering these too, if yo wish.....but the rest of you can play along as well if you want.
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Why did ACL's come up? :confused:
 
Multi Sport said:
Got it.

Does Michigan have the same school calender as So Cal? I have a sister that lives on the East Coast and the school calendars don't always match up.
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They don’t.
End of the Line said:
This is like deja vu all over again. Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​

But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/th...y-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/ Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.

Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (1, 2), rugby and basketball.​

Your turn Doc. @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him. I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.
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And conversely you’ve provided information that has supported mine......you’re literally arguing against yourself now. #tailspin <zing>
 
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End of the Line said:
This is like deja vu all over again. Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​

But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/th...y-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/ Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.

Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (1, 2), rugby and basketball.​

Your turn Doc. @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him. I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.
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Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days? Medical consensus and one study? Those are the same? Come on joker. You ain't fooling anyone. Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk. I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days. Nothing. Nada. Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days. Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue. So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier. Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point. I'll be waiting anxiously.
 
MarkM said:
Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days? Medical consensus and one study? Those are the same? Come on joker. You ain't fooling anyone. Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk. I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days. Nothing. Nada. Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days. Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue. So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier. Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point. I'll be waiting anxiously.
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Dude, didn’t we agree to not respond.:D
 
The increasing level of injury observed for youth players towards the end of the season supports the concerns expressed by the Football Association27 over the total number of games in which young players compete over the course of a season. It is expected therefore that the establishment of the football academies for young players at professional clubs, together with the standards set by the Football Association relating to the maximum number of matches played by youth players in a season, will go a long way towards addressing this issue.

This is one of the main conclusions from the study mentioned by End.

DA plays only about 30 to 35 games in a season. Some DA teams play 2-4 more games in outside tournaments.

ECNL plays about 25-30 games in a season. Plus alot more outside tournaments. Plus 20 to 25 HS games.

All other leagues play about 12 games in season. Maybe 18 to 35 outside games at tournaments. Plus 20 to 25 HS games.

So many non DA players play twice as many games as DA players.

See I can agree with this conclusion from the study you actually presented.
 
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