Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process

@Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?[/QUOTE]

I was letting my son handle most of the first contacts that came in starting the summer after his HS Junior year, which was right after his ODP year. We regularly discussed the schools that had contacted him and which ones he was interested in. I went on all the campus visits and made sure to include questions about finances.

He was away at soccer camp for a week that summer, so I took one call for him from a coach at Akron. I totally screwed up that call, saying that I didn't even know they had a D1 soccer team. Jumping ahead -- that fall Akron lost the NCAA final in kicks, and in 2010 (my son's first college season) they won it all with the Final 4 played at UC Santa Barbara.
 
Zoro said:
My son got a C- in pre-calc from a "bad" teacher start of sophomore year.
In 10th spring a 10 grade very strict chem teacher. He got invited by USA cycling to race in Europe - and he would need to miss class.
He got a C in that class and it correlated with his time out of country. We also left the HS and went to online because of that ( we think online is less competitive than a big HS). We also kept him in 4 years of independent PE so he could train for cycling and take fewer hard classes and keep it to 2-3 AP classes.

So his transcript looked like he jumped around (he did) and got a C in an important class. As his other later grades were good, that gave an opportunity for explanation. And a story about following passion...yada yada the whole out-of-the-box thing which they eat up these days, which was also true.
Coaches and admin though it was a good story and we think overlooked the C- from the (10th grade) fall before. He ended up with as many/more doors open than DD (the soccer player). We think it was the true story about his passion and focus that made that difference.
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My son is starting the process of applying to colleges and most of the advice we have been given over the years is to make sure he shows his "passion" for what he likes. Sounds like your son did just that and it paid off! Congrats! I like hearing about these experiences from other parents because I'm sure at the time, it was a little worrisome.
 
I assume you were spending time arguing with JAP vs studying soccer and school rankings and program fit.
 
Zoro said:
I assume you were spending time arguing with JAP vs studying soccer and school rankings and program fit.
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I let my son worry about the soccer programs. When he told me which schools he was interested in, I looked up their academic ratings and cost.

My initial prejudice was for SDSU and Creighton. My wife wanted USD. I vetoed only UCLA and UCSB. As it turned out, we could have saved a lot of time and effort if I had just listened to the mom whose son had committed early to UC Davis and then immediately started "recruiting" us.
 
Zoro said:
@gkrent ent and @Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?
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Z- Reporting & recommending. Your method worked for your dd which is awesome.

Our method was more in line with Makeaplay, gkrent and others who were not the forefront of contact, she was. We were advisors, mentors and council for her to experience the process. When it came down to $$ and on campus interface, that's when mama/papa bear accompanied and got down to negotiating the deal.

At the end of the day we wanted our DD to be vested mentally/physically in the process and really want the opportunity because like you mentioned earlier in this thread - playing ball in college is a job.

Fortunately for her, the coaching staff at her future home in the NE felt the same.
 
Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...
 
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Calisoccer11 said:
... I like hearing about these experiences from other parents because I'm sure at the time, it was a little worrisome.
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Sharing our experiences which I had done over 7+ years in the old site and 1,000s of emails - is kinda tough.

My summary:
-Know where your kids fit and try to get a school, and/or get money that they would not get without their sport.
Shoot higher than where you would expect their peers to end up.
-They are the product, coach is the buyer, you are the agent/salesperson.
-Apply sales and marketing strategy that works with long lead time big ticket items.
-Kids are generally not capable at doing what you can do. But when the time is right they can take over.

My son finally got it - "encouraging me" and "leading the way" was code for us doing all the work. But the hand-off was not too late.
 
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Zoro said:
@gkrent ent and @Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?
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I should clarify: First contact was always made with my kids coaches who eventually would set up a call. Then, my kids called and talked to the coaches, let them give them their pitch, etc. It obviously depends on the kid, but I think it makes a great first impression to the coach if the kid can have the confidence to call, introduce themselves, ask key questions about the program, and demonstrate listening skills on a phone call. From there, my kids report back to me about the conversation and we go from there.

I helped out with talking points prior to the call to ensure that its productive, but after a few phone calls with a few different coaches, they got the hang of it.

Some calls were not set up, DD was just reaching out to the program and finally got through to them. In these cases the dialog went a little differently but again I helped out with talking points so that time was used wisely.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a parent contacting the coach; each parent knows their kid best and if they know their kid has trouble with "giving good phone" that might be the right move for them.
 
soccerobserver said:
Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...
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Making coach contact and generating coach interest, school fit, logistics on visit. I talked to Columbia, Harvard and Dartmouth. DD had a major in mind and at the time soccer ranking was important to her. As DD knew the Dartmouth coach from a Stanford camp she and mom went there and DD did the sleep over thing. That made the choice clear and DD selected ND the following week. Dartmouth coach ended up at ND BTW...
So in all cases I called first. I emailed links to DD's videos (mine of her). I spoke with those coaches about cost of living, where students live and school calendar, nearby airports and transportation. All logistics things a parent might ask that a kid might not. I never spoke about grades or test scores or soccer/sport other than she was a GK.
 
Zoro said:
If your family has demonstrated financial need or are an ethnic background that gets financial aide you stand a lower chance of getting soccer money than if not.
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@Justafan you disagreed. I expected someone to. There are subtle points to my statement. But here is why it is true.
If you don't go to DI you stand a lower chance of getting money - because DII, DIII give less money by definition - there is lower chance. So scope is DI. Soccer is merit money. At the top DIs sports are the only merit money allowed and Ivy's give nothing for merit. While I expect some players may get non-soccer merit and soccer merit - I think it is odd enough to not really affect chances. Suzy with all As and possible merit money for grades and soccer, would, in reality likely go to a better school - that does not give money for grades. So again, the chances are lower this would happen. Need and ethnic group remain the major areas money is given for a soccer player in a DI. I can't think of other areas that might affect any chances of getting money on a big scale.

Coaches have so much money to give. If a player has money elsewhere, coaches will use that money over their soccer scholarship money. If financial aide determines Suzy needs $25K / year and will grant her $25K and coach award $15K in soccer money, Suzy now gets $10K from the school. Same is true for external money. If financial Aid say $25 and rich uncle or external scholarship is given the financial aid grant is reduced by that amount and it is required to report that money. So why would any coach give any money to Suzy when it just would just offset the grant amount. They don't. they save their money for putting together the best team.
 
espola said:
I let my son worry about the soccer programs. When he told me which schools he was interested in, I looked up their academic ratings and cost.

My initial prejudice was for SDSU and Creighton. My wife wanted USD. I vetoed only UCLA and UCSB. As it turned out, we could have saved a lot of time and effort if I had just listened to the mom whose son had committed early to UC Davis and then immediately started "recruiting" us.
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Hold on, because this impacts how I read any and every one of your posts going forward. Did you just say you wanted SDSU and Creighton, and vetoed UCLA and UCSB?
 
soccerobserver said:
Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...
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Observer - Not sure there's much I can add what Z's abundantly contributed to this (thank you Z- I've been reading your shared insight for years)....especially on the financial/needs base $$, minority $$, grant $$, common data set info etc......so I'll just clarify my statement that we simply whiteboarded all of the due diligence, gauged the coaches interest level, the "negotiation" for her final round of schools (Ivies & DIII Academic) we measured where they (the coaches) wanted/required her to be on their academic index for her class..... When they said we only need you to get "xo" for this test, x.y GPA, and it matched her level of love for the school ........bingo - we found the winner.




 
The number is 3.6 non weighted GPA, 600 in each area of the SAT (typical reading/math only) for any DI college in any varsity sport to get in. ACT 30 maybe, 32 for sure.
If you are special, they dip lower. Many schools go 1,100 for the two and higher grades. Hit that without a sport it is not doable at near the confidence level.
That is pretty much the bar for all Ivy's, Northwestern, Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame - that top 20 group.
Son for rowing - same.
One of the coaches I fell in love with over all I've dealt with was Martin at Princeton - rowing. Such a great guy and such a talent. The boat he was talking about here - getting the feeling did some nice winning.
Anyway it was a great trip with son and although we all thought Princeton was too much school - it was obtainable - if he wanted to row. I just think this is beautiful to watch.
 
If you have a kid willing to serve, and an athlete - esp a female, check out the service academy.
It is not about that some kids at Harvard or Princeton is a 170IQ (if you have one of those ignore my comments).

The difference between going in and coming out is the most stark at the service academies.

It is about what the service academies do with your basic smart kid I'm so impressed by. All (so even the football players) freshman take calculus, engineering, language (mine doing Russian), leadership courses and history of war (you could just call it history). And while not kicking butt vs DI recruited athletes at other colleges, it is a bit less important (other than beat Army). They are athletes. Looking at some, I question that, but the mean scores for men for the school is 12 pull-ups, 71 situps, 48 pushups, 1:53 600yd run and about a 6 min mile - going in. Girls are also competitive. And they pay your kid to attend. Of course kid needs to want to serve and know that they may end up giving their life for their country. But...they tend to die less than kids hanging around home (that is now). No motorcycles allowed.

They also have the highest mid-career salaries.
 
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Zoro said:
Well I'd select Davis over those and I know some who might hire Davis over those. UCLA and UCSB (and Ivy's) are group think schools. Ideally I'd avoid the UCs...
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Your opinions have always been a little odd. I hope no one takes you too seriously.
 
Zoro said:
The number is 3.6 non weighted GPA, 600 in each area of the SAT (typical reading/math only) for any DI college in any varsity sport to get in. ACT 30 maybe, 32 for sure.
If you are special, they dip lower. Many schools go 1,100 for the two and higher grades. Hit that without a sport it is not doable at near the confidence level....
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Not arguing but what we've learned is not what's stated herein.

For Ivy's and other private top 20, the recruiting class requires Academic Index (AI) average of 200 (or equivalent of AI, since not every school uses it). Composition of AI is the two SAT components (or ACT), two SAT Subject test scores, unweighted GPA. Based on what we've seen, GPA of 3.6 and 600 each will not get you close to 200. There is an agreement within Ivy League, we've been told, that states athletes will be representative of institution's student bodies and not be the exceptions from it. They have many rules above and beyond NCAA rules, including recruiting and engagement time allowed for sports.

Clearly, since its an average, some can to be lower, but it also says some needs to be higher, if that's the case. EVERY coach we've spoken with look for higher AI so that they have margin to recruit lower AI player. In other words, being on the lower end (below average AI) does not help and makes the player less attractive. Yes, if one is exceptional, they'll try to make the lower AI work somehow but at this level of competition for those 6~8 slots/school, everyone is quite exceptional.
 
@mirage sounds like you are more current than when I was looking and recently I had only talked to one Ivy. I had not heard the term given to AI but certainly I know it is a combo they look at.

My 3.6 number and 600 was stated as a low bar, not an average, and not ridged. It is what coaches say, not what Admin does. In the maybe 20 school coaches I have talked to, none have asked for higher than that to get in. I have only spoken with a few schools admin folks, but as we can see what admin actually does that seems less important than what a coach says.

But you (not mirage you - the general you, should have said ya'll but I'm not Southern) can use actual facts to assist in what you look for.
The actual 25 percentile can be found in the Common Data Set (posted about above - section C9). You can see what they actually do vs what they say they do. I don't know how to get an AI number from the Common Data Set because the SAT/ACT and grades are listed separately and we don't know which pair go together, but it is good enough to know they do dip lower - for somebody. It may even be a question to ask the coach - "Hey you guys let in 3.7% last year that have reading SATs in the 500s, some in the 400s - who are they?" (actual for Stanford - http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015, similar for Harvard). So what I am saying is there is a chance for an SAT in the 400s, in any area, to get into Stanford or Harvard. It is likely not a soccer player.

It was interesting to me, and a point of pride that my DD's incoming year 2012 the 25 percentile achievement (ACT) ND was higher than any DI. The average, and top were not (so the others have smarter), but who they actually let in and how low they dipped was (so the others also had lower achievers). And it was only true on the achievement side, not the aptitude side (SAT). I had been looking at the difference between the 25 and 75 percentiles that are published and thinking that a wide gap might mean the athletes are less respected. DD heard that is the case at some schools. The thought you are here because you are a jock... While not a major criteria for DD, she did pick a school were the ACT delta between 25th and 75 was only 2-3 points vs some schools where it was much more.
 
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