SoCal Soccer Attitude Change

[ocref]

I have worked with many different refs over the years and rarely come across what I call a "bad" ref. By far, most referees are good at what they do and some are excellent. Most want to improve and learn. Bad refs will be noticed within their associations and by the assignors and are usually dealt with in a number of ways, from direct feedback to more subtle ways such as given lower priority in the assigning process. The ones that are not that good are usually relatively new to USSF and still getting the hang of it. They just need to be mentored. Most ref associations try to team up those newer guys and gals up with a couple of vets with the aim to give them some constructive feedback following the match. It really takes many many matches to gain sufficient experience to develop into a quality ref. It takes a lot of work, training, feedback etc. Unfortunately many of the teens in our association do not want to step in as the center and many others eventually quit. Too many are discouraged by what they see and experience. The sport is growing with game counts increasing each year and we're struggling to cover all the games ... there's a shortage of refs. Yesterday I worked 2 adult games in the am then 2 SCDSL BU17 & BU19 in the pm. A total of 4 90 minute games (2 as center) on a Sunday because there's just not enough higher level refs to cover. So what you have is a State Ref that is often doing 6+hours of games covering higher level games & the less experienced ref trying to get through a youngers match the best he can. But it's with the youngers that the parents are at their worst, which is where we're trying to encourage the newer and younger refs to grow and develop. Sometimes parents are genuinely observing mistakes being made and other times the ref is correctly applying the Laws or avoiding calling trifling fouls that could disrupt the flow of the game. Most of the complaints I hear from spectators only demonstrate their ignorance. My concern is with the continued development of the sport and with that we need to develop the next generation of refs. Next time you want to complain or shout at a ref, remember this quote from Harper Lee: "Better to remain silent than be a fool".

 

[3JMommy]

Nobody is going to ruin their life by a bad call.

I agree with one exception: in regard to repeated fouls from the same player or two, I would appreciate more calls, and quicker warnings and yellows. Have seen way too many injuries that are caused by games getting too heated emotionally. Call a couple early, give a warning or two, and things will generally settle down more quickly.

 

[jdiaz]

Here we go again, every year it's the same thing. Let's bash all the refs!! They're fat, lazy, don't know the rules, egotistical, bad knees, out of shape......

You guys, ( and I'm talking to the thousands of people on this forum) but really I'm talking to YOU... Why don't you do something about it. You know the the rules, your in shape, your in the prime of your life. Your a male between the age of 35-50, you have weekends off and are a reliable, intelligent guy. Why don't you step up and become a ref!! Why don't you step up and help foster this fledgling game of soccer here in the USA that you all believe should be a the same level as the European nations. Step up, give up your weekends, go run around in the heat, on crappy fields and listen to guys like you yell at you for 4 hours a day for basically minimum wage. Why don't YOU step up and become a ref??

Oh, I know why you don't....because you're all family men. Basically good guys with a couple of kids at home. You love your kids and enjoy spending time with them. So much so in fact, that you dont have the desire to give up some of the best memories your ever going to have with them. You would rather watch your kids play sports every weekend!! Who wouldn't!!! I don't blame you, I do the same thing!! We would all rather sit back and spend the fleeting moments that we have with our children watching them play sports, than have somebody else carpool our kids to a game while we go voluntarily ref somebody else's kids 30 miles in the opposite direction. It's understandable and nobody can blame you for being a great parent...

But...lets stop bashing the men and women who do give up their weekends of watching their kids, family and loved ones play their games!! They do sacrifice a lot to make sure your little Johnny can get his game in. They are in the sun all day, running up and down bumpy fields with no shade. (Have you ever tried running on a crappy field with goffer holes and never looking down to see where you are stepping because you are watching the ball so you don't make a mistake - ITS NOT EASY!). I have yet to see anybody offer a ref a nice cold bottle of water to cool down during the run of play when it's a hundred or an orange slice at half.

So... Here's my point: since the majority of the primary ideal work force ( AGES 35 - 50) for refs is sitting on the sidelines being good family men and women, watching THEIR kids play, why don't we stop bashing these refs. Let's show some compassion, be grateful there is somebody to pick up the slack so that you can get that great picture, have that celebratory lunch right after the game, analyze the shortcomings of the coach and other players on the team (that's for SoCalUnited), and spend time with team friends and family that has come to support your child.

It's time to change our attitude towards refs, and look at why things are the way they are.....and be grateful for what we have.

Remember different ages different money for refs. For refs do the math 3 guys or girls three games a ref team . Each refs centers which make the most.
That adds up to $100 for three games how is that minimum wages? That's each ref $100?

 

[charlie murphy]

Ok was not going to get into this discussion but here goes. This thread is running parallel in another area without response and was duplicated by "sentient being here" here. Here it seems that "sentient being" got some to take the bait like I just did. ( 'Sentient being" ? You really think so? You probably do. anyway that is a different topic) . I am sure we all go thru the same of similar debriefing after a game with our kids on the way home , win or lose. Has anyone gotten " the ref talked too much. " To which you ask "what did he say" . He was telling (the other) team to go long and play "rapido" over the top because "# x " is faster than (X - defender) . Same game " vamos , rapido , 'top left the goalie has the sun in his face' ( translated for non Spanish speakers) ". Does the ref realize Spanish is not a secret language . I would call this a BAD ref. PS. this was a U 16 game in Premier league, so this was not 8 year olds needing a little help.

 

[baldref]

Remember different ages different money for refs. For refs do the math 3 guys or girls three games a ref team . Each refs centers which make the most.
That adds up to $100 for three games how is that minimum wages? That's each ref $100?

you don't know what you're talking about. read the thread to find out the facts.

 

[Sentient Being]

Charlie Murphy, no bait needed!! Welcome to the discussion, as all perspectives are most welcome. I know you will be a great asset in the cause to stop referee abuse, and a great sideline role model for kids and parents.

As far as a ref coaching kids to run plays or where to shoot is something I have never experienced or even heard of. I'm sure even I would lose some degree of universal calmness seeing a ref involved in collusion in any forum. Hopefully you were able to go through the proper channels to report that behavior.

 

[GunninGopher]

He was telling (the other) team to go long and play "rapido" over the top because "# x " is faster than (X - defender) . Same game " vamos , rapido , 'top left the goalie has the sun in his face' ( translated for non Spanish speakers) ".

A couple years ago my daughter's team played a team in the South Bay (San Diego) and 2 of our players came to the sidelines after the game saying the referee was coaching the team in Spanish. A complaint was filed with the league with a statement from both players about what exactly was said, but I don't think anything came of it. We never followed up. I began to suspect that the story, while it had a basis in truth, got a little exaggerated by our players (U11). I think kids can be easily swayed by group-think.

 

[Sentient Being]

Remember different ages different money for refs. For refs do the math 3 guys or girls three games a ref team . Each refs centers which make the most.
That adds up to $100 for three games how is that minimum wages? That's each ref $100?

jdiaz, thanks for the input...your right, it's probably not minimum wage. I'd like to recommend a book for you to read: Critical Thinking, an introduction by Alex Fisher.

 

[jdiaz]

you don't know what you're talking about. read the thread to find out the facts.

U14 team ref fee is $64 a team in southern California development league
So that's $128 game cash! Do the math 42.67 a ref. X3 games = $128 for 3 hrs of work break it down smart one 42.67 hr.
Minimum wage $11 hr. And take out taxes. Really buddy!!!

 

[goaldigger]

jdiaz, thanks for the input...your right, it's probably not minimum wage. I'd like to recommend a book for you to read: Critical Thinking, an introduction by Alex Fisher.

This guy isn't for real.
Genius if you want to quite a book make sure you know the authors name. It's Alec. Alec Fischer.
The irony is rich.
Clown!

 

[Sentient Being]

U14 team ref fee is $64 a team in southern California development league
So that's $128 game cash! Do the math 42.67 a ref. X3 games = $128 for 3 hrs of work break it down smart one 42.67 hr.
Minimum wage $11 hr. And take out taxes. Really buddy!!!

You got me... that was the whole point of my post...I tried to sneak it past everybody..but you sniffed it out...point taken...

 

[goaldigger]

Hello everybody! Hope you all had wonderful games this weekend!
It's great to see all the dialogue that has come from the start of this thread. But it is sad to see that most of it is one sided and that many of the posts are people still arguing the right to abuse refs for all the horrendous reasons you have listed.

Hopefully some of you were able to see the "unicorns and light" and make a positive change. I did, and I'd like to share that story with you now...

So although my son just joined a team with chronic ref abusers, I have made it my mission to be a calming influence on the leader of the bunch and the sideline in general. Over the last 2 weekends I have been able to isolate this parent and diffuse him/her from going ballistic over trivial calls. I have been able to do this by stating simple facts:
1-hold on, he didn't make the call because he was playing the advantage for us...it was a good no call.
2-relax, we were offsides, he made the right call.
3-that was a good call, we did foul the other team that time, the ref is doing a good job calling it both ways.

Other things that have been working are:
Talking about the kids in school.
Talking about things going on in SoCal.
Talking about how everybodys summer went.
Talking about other things all while we watch our kids play a game of soccer. Relaxing!!! Sitting in our chairs!

I have noticed that other parents have noticed and are now doing the same thing. It's amazing....really, it truly is!

I challenge anybody who reads this to try the same thing...see if you can enlighten other parents on better sideline etiquette! See if YOU can make our soccer fields a better place for everybody, and a much better place for our kids...

Name the club and team. I am dying to know

 

[jrcaesar]

U14 team ref fee is $64 a team in southern California development league
So that's $128 game cash! Do the math 42.67 a ref. X3 games = $128 for 3 hrs of work break it down smart one 42.67 hr.
Minimum wage $11 hr. And take out taxes. Really buddy!!!

Even U10s in CSL is $80 per referee crew, cash.

 

[Laced]

There are good refs and bad refs. By screaming at bad ones you will not make them better. Some bad ones will get better with experience. The worst ones is the bad and ignorant ones - they will never get better. I can assure you though, there are more good refs than bad ones. If you get a bad ref at your game - don't worry - good one is coming to next game. If the winning team complains about referee - then he/she must of been really bad.
Couple of posters here mentioned here how bad it is in Europe...BS - you either never been there or have no clue whats really going on nowadays.
In England there is very strict rule about sideline behavior. Every club MUST have what they call it respect line (see photo) and parents have to stay behind it, not allowed to cross it and not allowed to complain about referee calls. Only Coach allowed to speak to a referee or ask a question in a polite manner. All violations reported to FA which fines youth clubs.
On the other hand, if any of you here familiar with LOTG, parents is NOT part of the game - only players, coaches and referees. All leagues also have rules in place which puts coach to be responsible for parent behavior.
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BS? Really? In terms of spectator behavior, England of all countries is your shining city on the hill? Really? At the recent Euro Cup, riot police fired teargas because European fans joined hands and sang kumbaya? Just recently English parents rushed onto the field during the game to yell at 12-year-old opposing players during youth world cup in Sweden. Touchline issues are on a different scale there, with parents berating their own primary-school-aged children, parents and managers rushing on the field to harass teenaged refs, etc. Even brawls are reported from time to time. Years after FA introduced the respect line, the English sports minister threatened arrests in an attempt to curb touchline abuse. Their sports minister is full of bs?

 

[Sentient Being]

This guy isn't for real.
Genius if you want to quite a book make sure you know the authors name. It's Alec. Alec Fischer.
The irony is rich.
Clown!

Well done...hopefully looking up that book has helped you in some way my friend..
William, Will or Bill
Richard, Rick or Dick....

I think you get my point...

 

[Surfref]

One thing that I think would help the situation, other than civility from both sides, would be the positioning of the bench and the parents. I think all leagues and tourneys should have one team and its parents on one sideline and the other team and its parents should be on the opposite side. The parents should be to the left of the coach (or to the right of the coach in the rare instances when the CR places his AR's on the left side). This would solve a few problems, 1) the AR no longer has direct contact with the parents 2) the coach has better control over his/her parents behavior and 3) the CR is more likely to go directly to the coach re: parent behavior instead of engaging with parents regarding the merits of his/her call (as opposed to when the coach is on the other sideline).

Referees should never engage problem parents. Nothing we say will change their mind. I engage the coach and remind the coach, "Coach you are responsible for your spectators. The guy in the red shirt is going to get you thrown out and I would prefer to keep you here. Please take care of the problem." I have only had two coaches not take care of the problem on the first warning, but did send the parent away on the second and final warning."

I really don't care that parents will yell something at me once than shut up. It is the parents that continually yell and I start to hear the same thing from the players. These are the parents that I ask the coach to take care of.

 

[MakeAPlay]

As long as refs protect the players and call a consistent game I am happy. I am okay with them allowing or disallowing whatever their interpretations of the LOTG are just call the game the same both ways. >95% of the time the ref is right. There are exceptions

 

[baldref]

U14 team ref fee is $64 a team in southern California development league
So that's $128 game cash! Do the math 42.67 a ref. X3 games = $128 for 3 hrs of work break it down smart one 42.67 hr.
Minimum wage $11 hr. And take out taxes. Really buddy!!!

Three hours of work? As I said, you don't know what you're talking about

 

[jdiaz]

Three hours of work? As I said, you don't know what you're talking about

Each game is 40 or 45 minutes buddy. Another bright one to the rescue.

 

[jdiaz]

For the very bright ones! What you should be asking. Why isn't there a review board doing evaluations on referees. That way they can be corrected on their bad calls in a game. Also make sure the can physically run up and down the field and etc. I have asked many times this question and the answer is no there isn't. In Mexico , South America, and Europe there is a evaluation on referees. There is some good referees and there's bad ones too. And before you say something stupid I have a amputation and bone problems or would be ref. But lot of parents think they know futbol and find it funny. I hear their screaming offsides or he deserves a yellow card or red card. Because their Johnny boy got tackled. This is club soccer, Academy level of play not AYSO.and Johnny is on the bench and not playing then your son needs a new team or private trainer to pick up his game.

 

[jdiaz]

Three hours of work? As I said, you don't know what you're talking about

I love rookies that come here and open there mouth.