US Men's National Team - what went wrong?

Discussion in 'SoCalScene' started by Hired Gun, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Grace T.

    Grace T. Active Member

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    Great article. "they are pretty good at development too". Well, that's the point. The Spanish have a long tradition of playing it at the feet and building. The Americans have a long tradition of trying to use their athleticism in direct soccer as opposed to finesse. There are two ways to go at this. One is to say run-and-sock 'em soccer is o.k....it's just our American style...s the rondos and the passing game.....s the rest of the thinking soccer is a negative game about mistake avoidance instead of making the score....let's develop our own American style based on who we are and what works and stop trying to imitate others.
    The other is to say that the possession game really matters and we should try to develop it...but it takes time to develop that game and teams that try to do it are going to lose against teams that play the direct style...since we have a play to pay system, and coaches are only judged on wins/loses (there really is no other official stick parents have to judge them, in fairness to the parents), the emphasis on winning and losing hurts the development of the possession game, especially early on. U.S. Soccer, rightly or wrongly, has made the decision learning the possession game is important, and its recommendations are to deemphasize winning as a result until age 12, but they lacked the courage of their convictions to make that mandatory, which meant nothing changed. It's like the old saying, you can have it fast, good or cheap...pick two. You can have it competitive, possession-oriented or professional, pick 2, under the current pay to play system.

    Note Spain doesn't have the same pay to play system. They select kids from a very early age. What jumped out at me most about the article was 8 hour bus trip. It's a job to these kids. It's their future, so of course they are invested in it. Video review and then laps before training even begins? Well they don't say but you can imagine how much time they are practicing.
     
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  2. beachbum

    beachbum New Member

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    All I here is there push toward academy and focus on development. The men have been doing this for 10 years with the DA and there may be less talent in the pipeline now than there was 10 years ago. This comes in the face that soccer is the fastest growing sport in the country. So US Soccer says this is working so lets use it for the woman. Don't give me the BS that everyone else in the world is catching up, yes of course they are just as everyone has caught up to North Carolina from 20 years ago; there is more competition. All they did and continue to do is dilute the talent between the various programs DA, ECNL, NPL, DPL CSL or any other nick nack paddy whack program these aholes can come up with. All coach's and clubs care about is try to hold on to their best/all players/$$. This needs to be streamlined to one top national league with relegation and promotion (Competition). We are Americans and have influences from all over the world in soccer and otherwise. Let these various influences create the players not one system where all players are treated like robots to the exact same thing.
     
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  3. Grace T.

    Grace T. Active Member

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    Totally agree with this. My AYSO refs license was more extensive than my 8, and my father's AYSO coaching training was longer and more in depth than my E. The AYSO material and curriculum is also much better, at least as far as kids just starting out learning the game and needing to know the basics.
     
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  4. beachbum

    beachbum New Member

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    This is the other thing I keep hearing about. We need more "A" licensed coach's. Just because a coach has a designation does mean he can coach. I've seen plenty of "A" "B" licensed coach's not being able to coach their team out of a paper bag. Also seen coach's with low or no license do a tremendous job of teaching/coaching.
     
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  5. Grace T.

    Grace T. Active Member

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    Well, the other issue there is we mean a lot of different things when we say "good coach". Is a good coach a tactician that is going to win games and bring the club home a Surf Cup win? Is the coach a good manager that's going to keep the team and parents unified going forward, and can pick a winning cohesive unit and select talent appropriately? Is a good coach someone who'll impart skills to each individual player, teaching the striker how to make that toe pick under the goalie rushing at him, or getting the keeper that extra half inch on the jump? Is a good coach someone whose going to improve the kids soccer IQ? Is a good coach someone who is focused on the team as a unit, emphasize guided self-learning and imparting them a possession-based overall education? The licensing education is about the last one for US soccer. It's going to be even more so given that the "let 'em play" advocates have US soccer's ear, trying to recreate a street soccer environment, which goes completely against the Guardian article ajaxahi posted. That's why I always find it funny when parents ask a particular private trainer what's your license level since it has nothing to do with that.
     
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  6. Surfref

    Surfref Well-Known Member

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    If the coach sucks, the customer, parents, need to take their kid to a different coach. If the coach has no players to coach than they will be forced to learn to be a better coach or go coach baseball. I firmly believe that if US Soccer had a program that required coaches to receive continuous training and evaluations to maintain their license, than we would have better and more dedicated coaches.
     
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  7. timbuck

    timbuck Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the coaching education.
    Here is the current schedule offered by Cal-South.
    http://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/eventmanager/public/calendarlist.asp?calguid=&eventtab=current

    There is a "D" course that started in July. The cost is $395. And has the wrap up weekend on 10/21-10/22 (the date on the actual course page is different that what is listed on the link above). How many parents would be happy that their coach is skipping games in the middle of the week to attend a coaching class?
    And how many coaches are able to make plans 6 months in advance to take this course? And this is just for the "D".

    But there are 7 "E" license courses between now and mid-December.

    And looking at options for the "C" license. The cost for the "C" is $1,850. And you have to either live near a training center or stay in a hotel for an initial week and then again for 3 nights a few months later. Currently there is only 1 class scheduled in the next few months. It's in Tukwila, WA.
     
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  8. charlie murphy

    charlie murphy Member

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    If coaches weren't baby sitters for 17 to 19 kids from 7-9 pm 3 days per week and were coaching, not well paid sitters US soccer would improve. If they were required to have continuous training, based on US soccer principles, you would have more "highly trained" baby sitters looking to get a wage adjustment delivering more drills to keep the kids happy for 2 hours and continuing to get paid. How many coaches on this forum are pointing fingers. We should be pointing our fingers at you. You are the foundation of this program. You are also the solution to this situation . You should be preparing YOUR plays now so that this does not happen again in 4 years. Are you up to the task?
     
  9. coachrefparent

    coachrefparent Active Member

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    And the E license "training" itself is severely lacking. Not enough technical lessons, too much emphasis on the physical mechanics. A few hours in the class teaching child psychology and nutrition, then they run you around on the field like you are trying out for a team; treating you more like a player than a coach trainee. They seem to think every participant just finished playing for a D-1 school or MLS club. When I took it years back, there were lots of people that had little to no soccer background, and those poor folks really weren't much better off at the end.
     
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  10. coachrefparent

    coachrefparent Active Member

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    A good coach is a lot of those things. A great coach is all of them.
     
  11. Surfref

    Surfref Well-Known Member

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    For Cal South area, I am talking about 1-2 hour sessions given monthly or bi-monthly and local clubs take turns sponsoring the training (providing a venue) and a Cal South instructor provides the training. Cost could be $5-10 per person or raise the cost of a coaches license by $50 yearly to cover the training costs. This is basically how Referee training is done.

    If my kid’s coach had to miss a couple practices or games because he was attending coaches training, I would good with it. I do know enough coaches that have moved up in coaching license level and they were all able to plan it out in advance and most of them hem had the training paid for by the club they worked for. It would also be a good tax write off.
     
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  12. Dos Equis

    Dos Equis Active Member

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    This line, from the article, sums up much of the problem:

    "But maybe youth national teams and other youth programs did not scout, identify, and explore big enough player pools with a wide enough net."


    By starting academy related travel programs at 10 years old, picking the clubs who get to participate, excluding certain geographies, creating and encouraging more closed systems, requiring very young players give up all but soccer, US Soccer is narrowing their pool even more. And to top it off, we are are watching them do the same to our girls by forcing an academy on that successful system.

    US Soccer and the powers that be have created a youth soccer culture of priviledge, and we are surpised when our players fail to display the desire, intensity and focus to succeed. It is the exact opposite of the youth model for every other successful professional sport in the USA. Stop looking outward at other countries, and start understanding what works for the families and kids right here.

    We just got our a** kicked by a bunch of countries (other than Mexico) that are all smaller in population than Los Angeles county. Do not tell me about our better athletes going to other sports. There is tremendous popularity in soccer in this country at the youth level. Our leaders have failed to correctly manage that interest.
     
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  13. timbuck

    timbuck Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea.
    But then you'd have coaches fighting in the parking lot over player poaching, sandbagging and foul play.
    Actually, I like it even more now. I'd pay $25 to attend.
     
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  14. Multi Sport

    Multi Sport Well-Known Member

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    Our U 17s look good.
     
  15. Not_that_Serious

    Not_that_Serious Member

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    Biggest reasons I know coaches havent gone past D/C. Traveling to get a license that doesnt benefit them in what they are doing NOW. Sometimes traveling to the east coast for a course? not realistic
     
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  16. timbuck

    timbuck Well-Known Member

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    I actually have an idea here.
    US Soccer or at least Cal-South needs to mandate July as a "no-play month." Maybe do the same in December.
    This is the month where coaches get education. Conduct "E" license classes every weekend. Offer the first round of the "D" course the 2nd week of July. Have a Goalkeeper session 2x in July. Have a C and B course option. Allow anyone that already has a license to attend the course again for free (IE -if you already have your E then you can show up for the class again to see what has changed. Same with the "D" - don't want to get your "C", but want to keep up? Show up for the "D" course again.
    During a few weekdays in July, all of the mega clubs with affiliates conduct their own coach training sessions. Each affiliate is required to bring in an instructor and have coaches participate in 6 hours of on-the field training. The clubs bring in their players to run through the sessions with these trainers. Coaches observe, help and interact. If the coach has a vacation planned during the time his affiliate is having their training, they need to attend another affiliates training.
     
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  17. JJP

    JJP Active Member

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    If we compare talent identification in the US to, say, Brazil (another large country with a spread out population), here are what I see as the key differences.

    1. Brazil has the "soccer culture", there are former pro or semi-pro players all over that informally train family, friends, neighborhood kids, plus there are games from local teams in lower level leagues to teams in the top Brazilian leagues. So the kids are getting high level exposure from a very young age.

    2. These kids are playing from a young age street soccer or futsal all the time, getting better and developing on their own. There are so many former pros or local teams around, the best of these kids get picked up by local teams, whether they have money or not. When these kids get picked up by pro teams, they are far ahead of where US players are from all the self play.

    In contrast, in the US, scouting is haphazard and worse players with connections are picked up over more talented players. You can't blame USSDA for this, there's no way they can cover a huge territory with scouts. You can't blame the clubs for picking only kids that can pay, because clubs can't sell players.

    3. Local clubs develop players and sell the best ones to bigger clubs for more money, and keep some of the players they trained to put on their own team. The team sells tickets and jerseys to cover costs.

    US teams can't sell good players, there's no incentive to develop them. I don't even know if US teams can sell tickets with homegrown players, Galaxy advertises their latest European former superstar to sell tickets.

    Basically, when you have a strong soccer culture (lots of local pro teams and kids playing pickup on their own) plus proper economic incentives (teams wanting to develop skilled players to sell and put on their own team), the process of identifying and developing top talent is straightforward.

    In the US, it's a tortured process to ID'ing and developing top talent.
     
  18. younothat

    younothat Well-Known Member

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    Landon Donovan: Time to Re-evaluate U.S. Soccer
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/sports/soccer/usmnt-world-cup-landon-donovan.html

    “I think there are a number of reasons we’re missing the best kids, but the fact is we are missing a lot of the best kids,” Donovan said. “And that should not be the situation in a country of this size, with the resources we have, where kids are getting passed over for any reason, whether it’s socioeconomic status, race, religion, proximity to a club. Our best, most talented kids should have the opportunity that everybody else has. There’s no easy answer to that. But it’s something that needs to be fixed"

    “The fan part of me says it’s time to move away from the past and get a new president,” said Kyle Martino, a former national team midfielder and current TV analyst. “Sunil has done great things for U.S. Soccer but recently is harming the program more than he’s helping it. And I think that’s kind of natural in any position where someone remains unchallenged for so long and fresh ideas aren’t invited and executed"

    “There’s real significant and immediate economic impact and there’s long-term unquantifiable impact as far as kids that may have watched the World Cup next summer who will now lose that opportunity to be inspired by the U.S.,” Donovan said.

    “What we have to do now is realize that it’s over, and instead of finger-pointing and name-calling and the blame game, we need people in leadership positions to sit down and re-evaluate things and ask ourselves how do we prevent this from happening again.”

    Time to clean house: World Cup failure demands huge changes at U.S. Soccer
    https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/feat...018-world-cup-sunil-gulati-resign-bruce-arena

    "Change president. Change coach. Change how players are developed. Everything should be on the table after the USMNT's failure in Trinidad"

    The change cannot wait.

    "This is not a result that stands on its own. It traces back to the beginning of qualification under Jurgen Klinsmann. It transitions to the second Bruce Arena tenure. It carries over both because the players never changed and the results never improved. This falls on two coaches and a group of players who should have been better. And ultimately, it falls on Gulati"

    "The job should start on the youth fields. The under-15 and under-16 kids will be the ones on the U.S. team when this country likely hosts the World Cup again in 2026. U.S. Soccer must find a way to reach them now and to develop them better than it has in every cycle to this point. It must find a way to improve the national team programs in the long term, not the short. Forget about a coaching hire and firing Bruce Arena. The person roaming the sideline won’t help soothe anything until 2022. That’s a long way away.

    The work has to start right away. The transformation has to start right away. On a night when this country had its most historic failure in this sport’s history, it has to be the start of epic change."
     
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  19. El Clasico

    El Clasico Member

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    Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
    Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
    Everybody is too comfortable
    MLS is making decent enough money
    USSF is making a killing
    Cash Clubs love their business model just the way it is
    Parents are addicted to the Pay to Pay model because, honestly, if we got rid of it, half of the white, suburban, upper middle class kids who now play would be watching true ballers from the bench. Forget about the kids, what would that do to all those self-important parent's, sitting around with their Starbucks, self esteem?

    So then what gives? Which group is going to be the first to step up and rally for change?

    Like I said....Absolutely nothing will change.

    The USMNT sucks. But hey, don't mess with it. I got a good thing going here.
     
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  20. Dr. Richard Hurtz

    Dr. Richard Hurtz Member

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    I’ve posted on this forum before and I was made fun of because I said I hurl soccer balls as hard as I can at my son since he was little, to teach him control.

    Since he could walk I taught him the proper techniques to strike a ball, for every situation. I never let him toe poke. I’m hard on my kid. But he respects it and loves the honesty when I give him feed back. If he played like crap I tell him he played like crap. I don’t sugar coat it. If he played well then I tell him he played well.

    My point is we are too politically correct for every god damn little thing in this country. We raise little divas who all think their the next rock star Ronaldo. I see all too often kids playing fancy trying stupid shit in games instead of doing the smart thing.

    Be honest with your children. Don’t talk down to them but do inform and work on their problem areas. I see it as the way of school. If your child comes home with bad grades you correct their behaviors. If your child keeps making the same bad moves in soccer matches ( Omar Gonzalez) you acknowledge it and train better.

    Us parents are the problems. We watch our children’s soccer matches with blinders on. Watch his or her next match as if you were the scout... would you want that kid on the National team??
    Asks yourselves.
     
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