US Men's National Team - what went wrong?

Discussion in 'SoCalScene' started by Hired Gun, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Bronze

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    Sad day in US Soccer. Many fingers have been pointed to why.
    1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
    2. Youth Soccer Structure
    3. Best US athletes playing other sports
    4. Winning over Development
    5. MLS weak compared to other world leagues
    6. Youth Soccer is played by the wealthy, top youth players can't afford club enviroment
    7. US Soccer structure is a mess
    8. Soccer is not top 4 sport in US.
    9. Top US Soccer players need to travel oversees to get strong completion and get paid
    10. Most US citizens lack passion for the sport
    And the list goes on and on...
     
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  2. sdklutz

    sdklutz Bronze

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    How long has their been a DA system in place for the boys? What are the dividends of that system? Sure hope they don't mess up the WNT with their garbage DA program.
     
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  3. Eagle33

    Eagle33 Silver

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    It's easy to point fingers but sometimes teams loose, sometimes the other team was just better that day.
    Netherlands have all those things that you pointed out we don't have and their National team also didn't qualify. Chile didn't qualify. Italy still not and have to go through tough playoffs.
    Soccer is cruel sport, where better teams not always win.
    Our youth soccer and soccer is general is got a lot better than 30 years ago, and trust me 30 years is very short period of time.
    We are moving in a right direction and this World Cup setback will makes US soccer stronger.
    On the other note, don't we hate Russia and anything to do with Russia anyway?
     
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  4. espola

    espola Silver Elite

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    In order for USA to be bumped yesterday, all teams in the top half of the Hexagonal standings had to lose to teams in the bottom half. That's pretty rare.
     
  5. timbuck

    timbuck Silver Elite

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    All of the above are true. But at the end of the day, the 11 players on the field need to have some heart. That was a gutless showing.
     
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  6. Grace T.

    Grace T. Silver

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    I think there's a lot of truth to this. The Trinidad team also had nothing to lose and didn't have to worry about accumulating yellows so they were free to just play aggressively.

    That said, even if they had won or lost, the US still underperformed given the competition. I'd add: a) we still view soccer primarily as an athletic only sport instead of also an intellectual and skills based one...the rest of the world doesn't have better athletes than we do but being an athlete isn't all that matters....which is why we have so much run and smash soccer in the US, b) we don't put enough of an emphasis on creating defenders...of the athletes soccer gets everyone wants to be the rock star, and few of the greats want to be the work horse...we still view soccer as a game of making the score rather than avoiding mistakes and then we are horrified when a mistake like the first goal last night happens, and c) our system, despite DA (or maybe even because of it) is still college oriented...and lot's of kids (particularly those that can afford the pay-to-play system) and their parents would rather their players take the safe path in college (burning 4 years of what could be professional development) than a risky and short career at a low salary for the MLS or a European league.
     
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  7. SBFDad

    SBFDad Bronze

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    Super crappy day for sure, but guardedly optimistic this will be a catalyst for real change.

    Should start with a gutting of the leadership. Bring in voices that believe in a fundamental shift in coaching and youth development, youth ID, and how our domestic leagues should be structured (pro/rel). Push to change the rules on compensation for clubs that produce top players. And it’s time to invest those millions of $$$ sitting in the USSF coffers. It can be done, but will it?

    In other federations, the expectation would’ve been that Gulati and Arena resign within hours of that result. But guessing we will debate it all in the weeks and months to come and they will still be there through it all, at least for now. That’s how our federation rolls...too slow, too passive, too non-commital. Nothing too drastic for fear of destabilizing the system, which is exactly what it needs.

    Burn it all down. Sweep up the ashes. Rebuild it better, stronger, and smarter.
     
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  8. forsomuch

    forsomuch Bronze

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    19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster.

    Bigger concern for me is that only 5 of the 25 players on the roster are playing in Europe's top leagues! 2 play in Mexico and 18 play in the MLS. There needs to be a bigger push to get the top 17-20 year players into Europe and playing consistently at a higher level at younger ages.

    And if you are a male and playing soccer in hopes of a college scholarship there should be no national team for you!

    All players on last night's roster older than 22 should be banned from the National Team and it is time for the next generation to step up.
     
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  9. timbuck

    timbuck Silver Elite

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    "19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster."

    Yeah- these are the players that haven't been able to qualify for the last 2 Olympics.
    What a mess.
     
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  10. espola

    espola Silver Elite

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    And Pulisic was not "developed" by the Academy.

    When they started the PDA program 10 years ago, they should have started with 10-year-olds. If it had worked as they intended, we would now have a bumper crop of hundreds of world-class 20-year-olds.
     
  11. forsomuch

    forsomuch Bronze

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    I think those guys have aged out of this as well, the 96/97 were not the core of that group. They were 2 or 3 years behind them.
     
  12. MakeAPlay

    MakeAPlay Silver Elite

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    I agree. Pulisic and Wood shouldn't have to deal with such mediocrity. WTF was Omar Gonzalez doing in the lineup. The refs missed his horrible foul in the box that should have been a PK. I feel like crying but I am too pissed off.

    https://deadspin.com/fuck-all-of-this-1819346770
     
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  13. mahrez

    mahrez Bronze

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    Lack of Promotion/Reg; MLS players not good enough and there is no way to climb the later for lower division teams

    Soccer Culture; lack of

    Soccer Education; lack of. not nearly enough educated coaches, scouts, or referees either.

    Scouting system reform; Highly Political, we keep bringing back retreaded players, coach gets to pick whoever they want. Scouts don’t identify new players and stick with only mainstream teams and don’t even look at many teams & players.

    Resource allocation; US soccer has hundreds of millions of dollars they don’t invest in soccer training, infrastructure, or anything else but wall street bankers.

    Youth Pay to Play system

    Open Competition; close circuits don't help any one

    Economics; we spend way too much $ traveling and on tournaments instead of getting better with additional training in the name of searching out better competition, bs.

    Facilities; we don’t have enough available outside the suburbs
     
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  14. SoccerFrenzy

    SoccerFrenzy Bronze

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    They under performed indeed! Watch the Twellmans interview on ESPN, he is spot on. I watched Argentina play and they surely hustled on the field, something the US didn't do. Maybe US came in confident?
     
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  15. galaxydad

    galaxydad Bronze

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    My Fixes for MENS US soccer from the youth up

    Youth soccer-
    Pay to play need to be made extremely affordable. There are way too many good players not playing due to socio economics. Only a handful of clubs are doing it right- Galaxy, LAUFA, FCGS, Slammers ECNL boys as money doesn't matter. Best players make the team regardless of if they can afford it or not.
    - Why- because we severely limit the talent pool under the current economic model. My buddy is coaching HS and lots of his players do not play club because of money and play only on Saturdays or Sundays

    ODP/ ECNL/ DA/ NPL- Its about money not finding the best players and nourishing them- Force the re unification of all the leagues. Have scouts at all top level games. Try to take the politics out of the selection of the top prospects
    _ Id even argue the current flight of teams like Strikers, Pats etc to all these new league is about money. They cannot compete with the talent of these smaller clubs so they needs something to market parents in order to charge more.

    Coaching education and expectations needs to be aligned-
    -Why-Too many poor coaches working with quality players and zero development. At my sons club some of the best coaches are not working with the best teams. The coaches that recruit the best players are coaching the best teams but are poor at development

    Coaching education needs to be made affordable, be offered at better times of the year, more times and needs to be expected of all Club soccer coaches. Check out the cost of licensing up

    More days of quality training or more days of free play but more.
    - Why- Our kids don't play enough, period. Doesn't have to be organized play. Just play.

    College Soccer-
    Needs to play a 10 month calendar- The current system doesnt match the rest of the world and the players again dont play enough

    Needs to play with international substitution rules- The player recruited is not the best soccer player but the physical beast. I hear it from JC coaches all the time that their best players are often never considered as their style fits the world game but not the college game.

    Needs to change the amount of hours they can train- Again- more touches

    MLS-
    Stop being a retirement league- I love seeing some of the worlds best in their twilight years but that comes at the cost of our home grown talent

    play the schedule the rest of the world does. Our players are so out of synch when it comes to qualifying matched

    Academy system- All need to offer educational opportunities

    Send our best to Europe for a while- Our players need better competition period
     
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  16. MakeAPlay

    MakeAPlay Silver Elite

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    All you had to do was hear Coby Jones' voice and watch the reaction and the lack of words by the analysts to know that the sky truly fell yesterday....
     
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  17. galaxydad

    galaxydad Bronze

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    We have the best competition in our own backyard. Travelling makes little sense minus the experiences
     
  18. coachrefparent

    coachrefparent Silver

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    Yes. Parents aren't even remotely close to telling their kids to skip college for the (next to zero) chance of getting a World Cup (which only a miniscule part of the US population sees as having any value), or make pocket change playing soccer in this country.

    This all important game was barely on TV. The rest of the world sees the World Cup (and highest level soccer) as the holy grail, life's greatest achievement. They don't buy nintendos and iphones and ipads for their babies, they get them a soccer ball. They riot and burn and kill based on the results of soccer matches (we only do this for basketball).

    We're just not there yet people, and may never be. And that might be good.
     
  19. charlie murphy

    charlie murphy Bronze

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    this group did not make Olympic qualifying. sure things need to change , but maybe it is just this group.
     
  20. Ghostwriter

    Ghostwriter Bronze

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    My take away from US Soccer. It starts from the top down and the hiring of Bruce Arena was a disaster. It was a retread hire and his style is as old as the 90s. What is at the core of the problem is what we look for in a future player. I have seen first hand how the selection process goes it is political, it is flawed, and at it's core we look for athletes not soccer players. We have the mentality that big, fast, athletic overrides everything else, with soccer IQ, touch, processing the game, and ability to play on that stage not even part of the selection process. By the time the players get to the senior level the ones that have the soccer IQs, touch, etc have been weeded out for the most part and what is left isn't world class soccer players, it's the American ideal. We have no soccer identity, we get a player that has decent touch like Bradley and we think he is the next big thing but in the process from ages 15-23 we had hundreds of players better than Bradley's touch but they didn't pass the athleticism test so they were never given a shot. There is no easy fix and the whole model has to be changed but we don't have the soccer imagination, nor the know how to make that change. My guess is we will hire somebody like Alexi Lalas and double down on the American way. This mentality is rampant throughout the girls and boys club team's "give me an athlete and I will mold them into a soccer player" mentality. It is backwards and it is costly on the world stage. The men have been a disaster on the world stage with the exception of some isolated moments and the women have had a huge head start for a couple of decades and now the world has closed that gap as they invest in the women's game. Until coaches at all levels put soccer IQ, ability to read the game with and without the ball, and touch ahead of big, fast, and athletic we will repeat this nightmare over and over again.
     
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