oh canada
GOLD
Yawn. OM Dad, please stop posting links about your kid. Time will tell. Enough said.
Turning Pro at 13
- Thread starter sdb
- Start date
Eagle33
PREMIER
Playing with different age players on the same team happens all over the world. 16 year old playing alongside 40 year old.
Here we making a big deal about it and using it as an excuse not to let players do it. If the player is good enough, he/she should be playing up, period.
dk_b
GOLD
My point is not whether she can hang on the pitch - and I am well aware of this happening everywhere. In fact, I think one of US Soccer's great failings on the boys' side is that they don't scout adult Sunday leagues in less club-based areas where talented young teens are playing with dads and uncles and other men.
But my point has to do with social development - all I know about this situation is what has been reported and a 13yo playing with women creates social issues. Either the child is creating peer relationships with grown women or she's being socially isolated b/c they are not her peers and won't be for a number of years. Either way, it is socially-isolating from similarly-aged peer group (and even the MOST MATURE 13yo is not a grown woman).
That may not matter under a soccer-focused prism but, as parents of kids (as I assume that most of us on this board are), I'd expect that we'd see the OM situation as having implications that are not just limited to soccer. If it were "just soccer", then the issue is not that complex - "can she hang now?" (not even can she hang at 16 or 18 or 20 because, like in Europe, the ones who don't make it just become fodder for those who do). If the answer is "yes", then let her play. Who cares? But we do care (as a discussion topic; I assume people who actually know her or her family are not commenting on this board) b/c we don't see it as "just soccer". We speculate on the impact on the kid, on other kids who might follow the same path, on the motivations of her parents, etc. If many of us wonder whether it is the right thing for a kid to be committing to college in 7th or 8th grade, those same people probably wonder even more if it is the right thing for a kid to turn pro at the same age and give up not just soccer but so many other aspects of what it means to be a teenager. Hey, the payoff may be worth it (thus the discussion) but the issues are not simple ones.
Messi>CR7
GOLD
This is not a social issue that affects many. What we have to assume is that her parents (like all of us with our own kids) always have her best interest in mind and made their decisions accordingly. Social isolation? Why speculate on such thing without any insight. No one on this forum knows whether soccer off the pitch is 50% of her life or just 1% of her life.
There was a 11-year old kid in my computer programming class back when I was in college. Trust me, he turned out just fine (and spectacularly successful).
dk_b
GOLD
What do we do on this board if it does not involve speculation? And I don't disagree with any of what you have written - I have to assume her parents have her best interest in mind but her mom's comments in the original profile I read creeped me out a bit. And while most parents do make decisions under the guise of the "best interests of their kids", they often spectacularly fail in that - the recent admissions schedule is a huge example of that (though I'd argue that they might have thought they were thinking of their kids, they were thinking of themselves and their own fragile egos). OM's parents have made this a story and by doing that open themselves up for criticism and speculation about their intent and the impact of their decision.
I really do hope it works for her in every way imaginable. That she looks back on her time as a 13-year-old and sees all that she has received from the experience and considers it far better than what she may have given up (and let's not kid ourselves - every elite athlete makes some sacrifices). I hope that her parents are allowing her to be a teen - whatever that may mean for her - and she has peers around whom she gets to be 13 rather than feel continuous pressure to show her prodigious Soccer IQ. I hope she is like that 11 year old you mention and has success beyond her dreams. But we know there are other precocious 11 year olds who were harmed in similar pursuits (of course we are talking about a tiny fraction of people) and there are a number of young European phenoms on the boys' side who attended European academies but are never heard from because their best years were at 15 or 16 and they never made the first teams or the senior squad for their countries.
Eagle33
PREMIER
One thing you need to understand that in the professional soccer world there is no social differences. All participants live and breathe soccer. It is 99% of their life and daily routine. Players of not only different age, but also of different backgrounds and nationalities.
dk_b
GOLD
Yes, I understand. We are not discussing JUST the life of a professional athlete. And you sort of make the point of my concern - do you make that choice for your 13yo daughter? Is that time to make soccer - or any endeavor - "99% of their life and daily routine"? Do you want her to be hanging without age group peers? And all for something that MAY provide a lifetime of income or glory or travel but, at least on the women's side, has little precedent of doing so.
This is noteworthy because it is unusual. And Thorns, US Soccer, Nike and the girl's family are dealing with new terrain - and only one can count on the girl's interest as primary. As I said, I wish her the best and all the success in the world.
11 year old computer wiz might be a bit different than an athlete.
Computer wiz is heads down in class. Goes home. Studies. Creates some cool new software. Creates some more cool new software. Might hit the beach/mall/etc with a few friends. Might have some group projects with older classmates. Probably gets stuck doing some of the work for them because he is crazy smart and doesn't have much of a social life, while college classmates hit the bar and/or the bong.
13 year old soccer phenom. Goes to practice. Has locker room before practice. And after practice. Sees teammates walking around in various states of having clothes on. (I've never been in a female locker room. But I have seen Porky's a few times). Maybe they talk about their life outside of soccer. Maybe it involves men or women in the lives. Maybe it involves family stuff that 13 year olds are usually sheltered from (divorce, cheating, finances, etc). Maybe they talk about a team they are playing against and how they hate another player and they are going to try and hurt her. (Not that this could happen. But adults don't always practice the same sportsmanship that we want our young players to demonstrate). Im sure that coaches also talk a bit diffent to 25 year old women than they do to 13 year old girls. (At least I hope so).
So my 13 year old daughter practices once or twice a week with 17 & 18 year old girls who play for 01 and 02 Premier teams. The two keepers for each team have taken her under their wing, offer tips, give encouragement. Honestly she looks forward to this more than her practice with her 05 team. I have to agree. Getting instruction from one girl that will play college next year and another that may play college is better than any keeper coach or regular coach. They speak to her as an equal, she faces shots from other 18 year olds, gets compliments when she makes a great play, gets instruction if she could have taken a slide step before the dive, and is loving every minute of it.
Now this isn't 25 year olds, no locker room, etc., but maybe this kid is enjoying herself. Throw in the money and who are we to say if she made the right choice.
Now this isn't 25 year olds, no locker room, etc., but maybe this kid is enjoying herself. Throw in the money and who are we to say if she made the right choice.
outside!
DA
Wait, you've seen Porky's more than once?
dk_b
GOLD
I love what you have written - as the parent of a GK as well, my daughter has been that 13yo and is now that 17yo. Nothing that I wrote is meant to suggest that targeted cross-aged training (even in OM's situation) is wrong. But in a group setting when the girls looking out for your 13yo are distracted or with their peers, the conversation about partying and sex and this guy or this girl - normal stuff among high schoolers - are a bit vivid for that 13yo. When my daughter was a freshman, she had HS girls looking out for her and others who really wanted to get her to party with them and the guys on the boys' team. I doubt a 25yo pro will be discussing her dating life with a 13yo but she may be discussing it with her peer next to them. It is just hard for everyone to be themselves when the age spread is just so vast.
Well, he fast forwarded through most of it after the first time...
If she was good enough, she would’ve made the older US Women’s National Team. They obviously feel she’s not ready. Let’s be real, she’s still a little girl. Is she talented, sure. Can she compete with older, more mature and physically stronger women? NO! Will she get there, only time will tell. However, in my opinion, we won’t even see her name in 5 years!
MacDre
PREMIER
I do not think that OM parents are stupid, but I think you lack insight about the true nature of the problem.
First, I think the move to Portland is about putting her in an environment where she grow. Currently, the GDA is full of kids that lack talent and are only using soccer to help get into college. Consequently, the GDA games normally look like some ugly combination of kickball and NFL football. How the hell is she gonna grow and become world class in this type of environment.
Second, college soccer kinda sucks and doesn’t resemble how the game is played. College soccer really sucks if you’re playing at UNC for Anson Dorrance; All this guy does is play kickball, sub in players and press the entire game. I’m at a loss as to how an environment such as UNC could maximize her development. I would also argue that the environment at UNC has hindered the development of their players in the past. The players from UNC
Why do you think we won’t see her name in 5 years?
Wow, no comment on her at all, but this is about what you are saying here. This statement is incredibly pretentious and offensive to GDA players, college players, and NWSL pro players, who are certainly not there for the purpose of "developing" a youth player even if they are as amazing as she is.
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MacDre
PREMIER
MakeAPlay
DA
Have you seen Stanford, UCLA, Penn State or Florida State play?
MakeAPlay
DA
I disagree. They talk less about soccer than you think. I know a player who has been on her full national team since she was 15 and she is more interested in her engineering degree than anything. Her engineer father though will talk soccer with me all day. The best players have amazingly balanced lives. They go to concerts, care about social justice and grind it out in school. I believe only three members of our current WNT don’t have college degrees and most have them from extremely prestigious universities.
For females, the interpersonal aspect of soccer and the social relationships are very significant parts of the team. Grown women have conversations about sex, drugs and alcohol, getting married, having children, financial pressures, buying a house, making big life decisions etc. that is something a 13 year old is usually not talking about and doesn’t have any experiences to contribute or participate in the conversation. So someone in that situation is just listening and not really getting all of it, or is being exposed to mature adult issues that she shouldn’t be or is just isolated from all of it and not in a position to developer the relationships with other teammates in a normal way. Being 13 hanging out with adult women is different than being 16 or 17 hanging out with adult women.
Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good. As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out. If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays. Not sure that is being demonstrated here. There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence. Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males- Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.
Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good. As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out. If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays. Not sure that is being demonstrated here. There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence. Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males- Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.