Splitting

[MWN]

My 2 cents on a couple more things for younger GKs...

I'll add that I think coaches and parents make a big mistake allocating younger kids as full-time GKs too early. My advice is that kids should continue to get as much field time and work on skills as much as possible. Thus, splitting is a good thing as long as field time is involved. Don't go full-time in the box until its clear that the kid has a future at that position. My rule/advice is that before puberty use the Khamis-Roche Method to ascertain whether the kid has a decent chance at continuing in the position based on the following standard:

• Girls - Tracking above 5'7" (average height of D1 is 5'9")
• Boys - Tracking above 5'11"

Once puberty starts and the growth spurts hit and you achieve above the minimums then go full time. The caveat would be earlier is OK if the kid has very good chance of finishing off a few inches above the minimums (Dad is 6'3 and Mom is 5'10 and kid is sitting in top 5% through adolescence). At the older and higher levels coaches will take the talented tall kid every-time over the talented short kid for this position. On the field, height really doesn't matter much, but between the sticks height does. At the college level most D1 schools won't look at keepers that fall below the above and want to see much taller.

I've seen multiple female soccer player absolutely ruined because they went between the sticks full-time too early. They loved soccer, were great U10 field players, became full-time GKs and slowly become mediocre field players by U14, then by U16 had no team that wanted them for the field or keeper at 5'4" (average woman's height). Those shorter keepers get relegated to the C team and/or the bench until after the game is decided.

Full disclosure: My son was 5'9" at age 12/13 and is now slightly under 6'2" at age 14. He was always tracking 6'1"+, so I was OK with him becoming a full-time keeper at the U13 level, but he still split time on the field on his U14 team because he was one of the top field players and the team needed field players. Last year was his first year as a full-time keeper and he played up a year.

 

[Mystery Train]

I'll add that I think coaches and parents make a big mistake allocating younger kids as full-time GKs too early. My advice is that kids should continue to get as much field time and work on skills as much as possible. Thus, splitting is a good thing as long as field time is involved. Don't go full-time in the box until its clear that the kid has a future at that position. My rule/advice is that before puberty use the Khamis-Roche Method to ascertain whether the kid has a decent chance at continuing in the position based on the following standard:

• Girls - Tracking above 5'7" (average height of D1 is 5'9")
• Boys - Tracking above 5'11"

Once puberty starts and the growth spurts hit and you achieve above the minimums then go full time. The caveat would be earlier is OK if the kid has very good chance of finishing off a few inches above the minimums (Dad is 6'3 and Mom is 5'10 and kid is sitting in top 5% through adolescence). At the older and higher levels coaches will take the talented tall kid every-time over the talented short kid for this position. On the field, height really doesn't matter much, but between the sticks height does. At the college level most D1 schools won't look at keepers that fall below the above and want to see much taller.

I've seen multiple female soccer player absolutely ruined because they went between the sticks full-time too early. They loved soccer, were great U10 field players, became full-time GKs and slowly become mediocre field players by U14, then by U16 had no team that wanted them for the field or keeper at 5'4" (average woman's height). Those shorter keepers get relegated to the C team and/or the bench until after the game is decided.

Full disclosure: My son was 5'9" at age 12/13 and is now slightly under 6'2" at age 14. He was always tracking 6'1"+, so I was OK with him becoming a full-time keeper at the U13 level, but he still split time on the field on his U14 team because he was one of the top field players and the team needed field players. Last year was his first year as a full-time keeper and he played up a year.

We'll probably need a different thread to discuss height, but just curious to know where you get the average height for D1 players? I've done lots of research by hunting down collegiate rosters and looking at the height listings of keepers, but have never seen a study or report on it. Those numbers sound about right, but I have seen some shorter D1 keepers on the women's side.

Additional thoughts: In general, agree that it is better to not commit to playing keeper only until later. As for your comments about college, you are talking only D1, and I think it is a bad idea to use that as a guide for what to do with younger players anyway. The likelihood of even playing D1 ball is waaaaaay outside reality for the majority of club soccer keepers. Opening up the scope to include D2, D3, NAIA and small colleges, there is no reason a shorter player who just loves the position can't find a place to play beyond youth...and let's not get caught up in making college soccer the end goal at all.

Last thing to stop the shorter keepers out there from getting discouraged: If genetics are going to keep you down (5'4 for girls, 5'9 for boys) work on that vertical. It you can get to the top of the crossbar, you've always got a chance.

 

[MWN]

We'll probably need a different thread to discuss height, but just curious to know where you get the average height for D1 players? I've done lots of research by hunting down collegiate rosters and looking at the height listings of keepers, but have never seen a study or report on it. Those numbers sound about right, but I have seen some shorter D1 keepers on the women's side.

Additional thoughts: In general, agree that it is better to not commit to playing keeper only until later. As for your comments about college, you are talking only D1, and I think it is a bad idea to use that as a guide for what to do with younger players anyway. The likelihood of even playing D1 ball is waaaaaay outside reality for the majority of club soccer keepers. Opening up the scope to include D2, D3, NAIA and small colleges, there is no reason a shorter player who just loves the position can't find a place to play beyond youth...and let's not get caught up in making college soccer the end goal at all.

Last thing to stop the shorter keepers out there from getting discouraged: If genetics are going to keep you down (5'4 for girls, 5'9 for boys) work on that vertical. It you can get to the top of the crossbar, you've always got a chance.

You have heard the expression, there are lies, damn lies and statistics ... or something like that.
We have this, which is relatively accurate: http://www.ncsasports.org/recruitin.../womens-soccer-recruits-recruiting-guidelines
At the women's pro level: https://www.keeperportal.co.uk/how-tall-do-female-goalkeepers-need-to-be/

A few months back I did a survey (one Saturday morning) and visited something like 20+ NCAA D1 teams rosters, picked the GK's with minutes (some never see the field) and basically confirmed that at the D1 level, the averages mirror the women's pro averages. (https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-women/d1). For example, UCLA doesn't have a GK below 5'7" and the starter (Micah) is 5'9". Stanford's are each 5'9".

Scholarships are limited and GK's are one of the few positions that can get full rides given the importance of the position. Height and wingspan play a crucial role in who gets looks and who doesn't. At the end, the shorter keepers have a very tough time getting minutes, but there are many non-scholarship roster spots for players who will find themselves in a support role. Even if college isn't on the horizon, there are always Recreational teams and Flight 3/Bronze teams in need of keepers, regardless of height.

You are right, we don't want to discourage the shorter keepers and the a few will break out of the pack and move to the next level, but the road is so much harder. This is why I continue to believe "splitting game time" is ok. Most of the skill development will occur at keeper training anyway, and the 90 minute games for most keepers are only 10 minutes of actual playing (unless your team sucks and the opposing team plays the game on your half). When my son's team dominates the other team, he simply stands a little beyond the 18" and watches until he gets a backpass and puts it back into play.

So my opinion is splitting time is great, especially if the time is spent on the field. Splitting time and sitting may not benefit the keeper, but often does benefit the team.

 

[Keepermom2]

I'll add that I think coaches and parents make a big mistake allocating younger kids as full-time GKs too early. My advice is that kids should continue to get as much field time and work on skills as much as possible. Thus, splitting is a good thing as long as field time is involved. Don't go full-time in the box until its clear that the kid has a future at that position. My rule/advice is that before puberty use the Khamis-Roche Method to ascertain whether the kid has a decent chance at continuing in the position based on the following standard:

• Girls - Tracking above 5'7" (average height of D1 is 5'9")
• Boys - Tracking above 5'11"

Once puberty starts and the growth spurts hit and you achieve above the minimums then go full time. The caveat would be earlier is OK if the kid has very good chance of finishing off a few inches above the minimums (Dad is 6'3 and Mom is 5'10 and kid is sitting in top 5% through adolescence). At the older and higher levels coaches will take the talented tall kid every-time over the talented short kid for this position. On the field, height really doesn't matter much, but between the sticks height does. At the college level most D1 schools won't look at keepers that fall below the above and want to see much taller.

I've seen multiple female soccer player absolutely ruined because they went between the sticks full-time too early. They loved soccer, were great U10 field players, became full-time GKs and slowly become mediocre field players by U14, then by U16 had no team that wanted them for the field or keeper at 5'4" (average woman's height). Those shorter keepers get relegated to the C team and/or the bench until after the game is decided.

Full disclosure: My son was 5'9" at age 12/13 and is now slightly under 6'2" at age 14. He was always tracking 6'1"+, so I was OK with him becoming a full-time keeper at the U13 level, but he still split time on the field on his U14 team because he was one of the top field players and the team needed field players. Last year was his first year as a full-time keeper and he played up a year.

My daughter wouldn't come out of the goal no matter what I did at U11. I was really nervous about that because I wasn't certain she would be tall because I adopted her. She has always been in the 85th to 90th percentile and one of the tallest in her class forever but I was still nervous about that decision. She is in the 95th percentile right now and has always been on track to reach at least 5'7" but no taller than 5'9". I think we are good though because she has huge feet, inordinately long legs right now, is 5'3"at the age of 11 and seems to be growing daily. I just had to bank on statistics when I didn't talk her out of the goal at 9/10 years old. Of course I am pretty sure she could still play Keeper in high school and in certain clubs even if she didn't grow to 5'7". College seems so far off with remote possibilities I can't really think that far.

 

[Technician72]

We'll probably need a different thread to discuss height, but just curious to know where you get the average height for D1 players? I've done lots of research by hunting down collegiate rosters and looking at the height listings of keepers, but have never seen a study or report on it. Those numbers sound about right, but I have seen some shorter D1 keepers on the women's side.

Additional thoughts: In general, agree that it is better to not commit to playing keeper only until later. As for your comments about college, you are talking only D1, and I think it is a bad idea to use that as a guide for what to do with younger players anyway. The likelihood of even playing D1 ball is waaaaaay outside reality for the majority of club soccer keepers. Opening up the scope to include D2, D3, NAIA and small colleges, there is no reason a shorter player who just loves the position can't find a place to play beyond youth...and let's not get caught up in making college soccer the end goal at all.

Last thing to stop the shorter keepers out there from getting discouraged: If genetics are going to keep you down (5'4 for girls, 5'9 for boys) work on that vertical. It you can get to the top of the crossbar, you've always got a chance.

We got lucky with the genetics. Currently my GK is 5'8" at 11 years old, and she's been drilled too death since early on about her form and ability to play low and leverage her height to cover not just the "high ones".

 

[Mystery Train]

Currently my GK is 5'8" at 11 years old

wow! She'll probably have more trouble fending off the volleyball and basketball coaches than opposing team's forwards at this point.

 

[Technician72]

wow! She'll probably have more trouble fending off the volleyball and basketball coaches than opposing team's forwards at this point.

Basketball recruitment is already happening, she plays center for her junior high team (6th grade) to keep things fresh. My wife ran Track and played Basketball through college internationally so she's praying my kids switch to B-Ball. It's like the Cold War in my house when it comes to Soccer vs. Basketball.

 

[Woobie06]

This is a really good thread...plus I think it is also super tough for parents of GK's... I agree with so many things people have said, importance of playing full games, the mental aspect, the hall pass for guesting, number of touches and how different it is from field players, drama if there are differences in ability between the keepers, that keeping is much more than shot stopping, plus only one can play at a time, and above all if you don't play, you won't develop.

Just to share, our current philosophy right now is up through 9th grade (we are a few years away), we will have our DD on a team appropriate for her ability where she plays full-time, unless there is some extraordinary circumstance. Hopefully it will be at the same level she plays at now, and optimistically it is with the same club. That in addition with good training outside of what the club offers will hopefully be beneficial in the long run. Going into 10th Grade if she splits time on an ECNL/DA or whatever it is at that time, she will at least get the opportunity for the larger showcase events to be seen (I know these events occur at the earlier age groups as well). She is 4 years away from 10th grade, and splitting time in between is the equivalent of taking two years of development/playing away IMO. That is a lot and too much to give. This assumes she wants to be the FT Keeper (which she is currently, and has said she does not want to split). I also worry that splitting time just because there are two keepers will affect her love to play...for a variety of reasons. IMO, The better player should play more. It works that way at the other positions.

We tell our daughter the most important things at the GK position are being consistent, reliable, and available. You save what you are supposed to, and come up big more frequently than you come up short (soft goal); you are at every game, scrimmage, and event; and you play tough (as others have mentioned) and through being hurt (being hurt is not being injured, you can't play through injuries). You don't give them a reason to bring in another player. Ideally she should not need another rostered keeper to compete against in practice for motivation, hopefully there is enough motivation to work hard to play. There is competition in Club Keeper training between younger/older, Team A/B, etc. as well as mixed practices. It is a big commitment from the player and parents and not necessarily fair. I have met very few kids that want to sit on the bench and not play.

The last thing I will say is that our DD's Keeper Coach told us a story a few weeks ago about a boy he trains, and that the highest level he played was CSL Gold. This boy recently signed a Pro Contract in Denmark. My DD's Keeper Coach told us that the most important thing to do is play, play, play and get as many opportunities as you can in the goal. He said this is more important than playing in the top leagues when younger. Sometimes I think we parents might put a higher priority on the league - DA/ECNL/or whatever over where the kids need to play to develop.

 

[3JMommy]

We have an 03 Keeper, who's played FT keep for the last 2 years. She was ready to go in goal FT the year before, but we made her wait it out one more year. The past two seasons she has been on a team with 2 keepers, and their time was split pure 50/50. However, she was allowed to guest anywhere and everywhere as much as she wanted. Sometimes on the field, and sometimes in the goal. She has LOVED it. She loves her co-Keeper-they are each other's biggest fans. She says that splitting time helps her. It's like a sister--no one else knows exactly what you're going through like your sibling.

 

[Mystery Train]

We tell our daughter the most important things at the GK position are being consistent, reliable, and available. You save what you are supposed to, and come up big more frequently than you come up short (soft goal); you are at every game, scrimmage, and event; and you play tough (as others have mentioned) and through being hurt (being hurt is not being injured, you can't play through injuries). You don't give them a reason to bring in another player. Ideally she should not need another rostered keeper to compete against in practice for motivation, hopefully there is enough motivation to work hard to play.

Preach!

 

[Keepermom2]

We got lucky with the genetics. Currently my GK is 5'8" at 11 years old, and she's been drilled too death since early on about her form and ability to play low and leverage her height to cover not just the "high ones".

Wow! Great that she got good training!

 

[Woobie06]

We have an 03 Keeper, who's played FT keep for the last 2 years. She was ready to go in goal FT the year before, but we made her wait it out one more year. The past two seasons she has been on a team with 2 keepers, and their time was split pure 50/50. However, she was allowed to guest anywhere and everywhere as much as she wanted. Sometimes on the field, and sometimes in the goal. She has LOVED it. She loves her co-Keeper-they are each other's biggest fans. She says that splitting time helps her. It's like a sister--no one else knows exactly what you're going through like your sibling.

That is awesome! That flexibility and support is great. Each kids journey, story, goal, and expectation are different. What’s cool is that in SoCal there so many kids that play and teams you can find the right situation for your kid/player so they have fun and enjoy playing. That is the hardest part, finding what works and not getting caught in traps. Everybody’s road is going to be a little different. Team sports are so good for the kids and finding the right fit is key.

 

[silverstreak]

We got lucky with the genetics. Currently my GK is 5'8" at 11 years old, and she's been drilled too death since early on about her form and ability to play low and leverage her height to cover not just the "high ones".

have

Basketball recruitment is already happening, she plays center for her junior high team (6th grade) to keep things fresh. My wife ran Track and played Basketball through college internationally so she's praying my kids switch to B-Ball. It's like the Cold War in my house when it comes to Soccer vs. Basketball.

I want to touch on this......my dd is an 02 and is 6'1.........she played full time keeper since U8.....but played rec seasons to get field experience, so she did not suffer too bad on the footskills and ball handling........going back now I think both basketball and beach volleyball have been the best contributors to her success at the 10-15 age range that I could have done for her.....not just what the sports itself provides for cross train....but with the big growth spurts of a big athletic girl we had to trust that playing in the sand has helped with her balance...agility and core strength as well as keeping her injury free to this point.

 

[MWN]

05 daughter is a keeper. I’d look to leave if she was splitting time. Half a game might see only 4-5 touches. Game experience. Setting your teammates for a wall, clearing out corners, playbacks, knowing when to drop kick and when to roll it out to a player, facing breakaways, when to slide tackle outside the box because of a poor pass There is a reason top goal keepers get better with age and it isn’t always their skill and physical speed and height.

What happens if the GK get's injured and is out for a month. At the 05 level (U13) its may be unfair to the team. If the club has multiple teams and can club pass GKs then its a different issue, but the higher the level of play, the higher the stakes.

Good/Intelligent team coaches can mitigate some of the concerns that keeper parents have (touches) by adjusting practices. At GK practice, the GK is going to get more touches and instruction than any game will provide. At team practice, the GK is often left on an island stopping shots with no instruction other than "do better." If coaches were better educated on the needs of GKs, they could easily spend 20 minutes on set plays and other drills that benefit the GKs as well as the team. We had a coach that while I hated some elements of his style, understood that practicing these other elements and giving good instruction to the GKs was his job. Splitting time wasn't such a big deal because the boy got 3x as many situational touches in practice than he did at games.

 

[gkparent]

We want our DD to split time as little as possible. She is 5’2” and will max out at 5’4” tops. She has been aware for about 2 years what doors will be closed to her in the future due to size and what doors she can keep open by training her tail off. She probably could have trained her tail off as a field player instead but decided to stick with goalkeeping because she loves it. We just want her to play as much of the beautiful game for the love of the game as she can while he ride lasts. She is fortunate that school comes easily to her and she can write her ticket to college without soccer but is aiming to stay in the competitive realm so she has a chance at a D3 team someday.

 

[gkparent]

The DD trains with an incredible GK coach and loves learning with and from some very talented boys and girls. This will be her first year playing with a backup keeper. It might have felt more threatening to her, but I think the camaraderie she has experienced through training has made her a fan of all GKs everywhere (with the exception of GKs that celebrate the mistakes of others, but luckily we have not seen that to be the norm). Also, the backup keeper is a good field player and won’t ride the bench, so they get a chance to cheer each other on in other ways. I give the coach credit for arranging a situation that benefits all the girls and the team as a whole, too.

 

[NorCal]

My daughter played both midfield and GK early on (u8-u13). Our backup GK moved so she has been the sole GK for the last 2 years on her one team and splits time at GK on her other team. She occasionally has the opportunity to play the field at her age group though (she plays 1 year up). I think playing the field has really helped her foot skills, distribution and confidence coming off her line (attached is a pic of her doing a header near midfield).

 

[G03_SD]

We want our DD to split time as little as possible. She is 5’2” and will max out at 5’4” tops. She has been aware for about 2 years what doors will be closed to her in the future due to size and what doors she can keep open by training her tail off. She probably could have trained her tail off as a field player instead but decided to stick with goalkeeping because she loves it. We just want her to play as much of the beautiful game for the love of the game as she can while he ride lasts. She is fortunate that school comes easily to her and she can write her ticket to college without soccer but is aiming to stay in the competitive realm so she has a chance at a D3 team someday.

My dd is 5'2 and has maxed out as a jr. She works hard and always wants to play at higher level. She's very realistic when it comes to team and college recruitment. She has been beaten out of a spot by 6' GK who cannot dive or catch a ball, but has good presence. And there had been occasions coaches invited her back because their giants could not get the job done. She has very good grades and SAT and is looking to attend a highly competitive highly ranked academic college. Her strategy has been looking up schools that carry GK shorter than 5'5. She's talking to some and hopes soccer will open the door to the schools where grades/test scores will not get her through the standard admission process, but maybe soccer will move her application up top. She's okay if she doesn't get a minute on the college field, there will be intramural, club or futsal. Even if soccer doesn't get her to college of choice, it has taught her skills to use later in life on how to deal with adults, teammates, crazy parents, crazy players, speed and velocity, angles, perseverance, and I can go on and on.

 

[Keepermom2]

My dd is 5'2 and has maxed out as a jr. She works hard and always wants to play at higher level. She's very realistic when it comes to team and college recruitment. She has been beaten out of a spot by 6' GK who cannot dive or catch a ball, but has good presence. And there had been occasions coaches invited her back because their giants could not get the job done. She has very good grades and SAT and is looking to attend a highly competitive highly ranked academic college. Her strategy has been looking up schools that carry GK shorter than 5'5. She's talking to some and hopes soccer will open the door to the schools where grades/test scores will not get her through the standard admission process, but maybe soccer will move her application up top. She's okay if she doesn't get a minute on the college field, there will be intramural, club or futsal. Even if soccer doesn't get her to college of choice, it has taught her skills to use later in life on how to deal with adults, teammates, crazy parents, crazy players, speed and velocity, angles, perseverance, and I can go on and on.

I have a special place in my heart for 5'2" goalkeeper over looked by the American way of thinking that taller makes you a better Keeper because my older daughter experienced that and decided it wasn't worth the battle. My younger Keeper daughter has been at a couple of trainings with Melissa Weck who I think is better than most D1 Keepers I have watched on TV. Her technique, decisions, ability to fly at a moments notice and quick reflex is a pleasure to watch. She was the goalkeeper when Slammers ECNL U18 team was the National Champion. I read one place that Melissa's goal is to play professionally in Europe. I am guessing because they don't focus in so much on height. Kristin Klienow is another one that is exactly the same height as your daughter. I included an article written about her. Best to you and your daughter.

Melissa Weck (5'4")
http://fgcuathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4044
This is Melissa's recruiting video from 2014 when she was 16 (Notice it says she is 5'5" yet her height posted at FGCU is 5'4")

Kristin Klienow (5'2")
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/wsoc/2016-17/bios/kleinow_kristin_y728
https://www.ocregister.com/2014/09/29/game-saving-sophomore/

 

[GKMomma]

My daughter is 5'3" and 16 and I am pretty sure that she is done growing. She has never shared time in the goal and has always been a FT goalkeeper. She knows that she is short, and she has accepted that, but she works hard to make sure she can get to those high balls and shows that she has no fear. She plays higher level soccer and I cannot imagine having to tell her that she has to play Flight 3 or even D3 because she is shorter. She has been the starting GK at her HS for both years as well as captain, beating out Seniors and girls taller in her position. She works out with boys who are over 6 ft, and her GK trainer treats her the same and expects nothing less than 200% effort from each of them.
Realistically, yes, the USWNT has keepers that are taller, but my daughter hasn't been called up to the NT, and honestly if it hasn't happened by now, it probably won't. That's another thing she is realistic about.
I just don't see my daughter slacking off because her height is going to hold her back. If a coach is going to choose one child over another simply based on height, then you will have bigger problems with that coach down the line, believe that!
Good luck and don't give up Goalkeeper parents!

 

[Not_that_Serious]

When you are shorter you have to make it up with technique or crazy athleticism. Favorite short keepers: Rene Higuita (was more like an attacking mid playing keeper), nick rimando (of course when he was younger, but can move better than Tim Howard can now), and Jorge Campos (my favorite keeper at a whopping 5'6"). If i had a choice of course Id probably going with the 6'4"+ keeper but if they aree quick and can jump out the building, not going to push them out from between the sticks.