GAL high school play unlikely in CA

[dk_b]

Is the Restriction is "no club players" or "players cant play club the same month they are also playing HS"?

Second seems easier to work around.

CIF rules that apply to all schools in al the state's sections do not permit dual participation during the season. If you play any "outside competition" (even a scrimmage, depending on the circumstances), you lose 2 HS games for every outside game played (and that is a first time sanction; repeat offenses is not 2:1 again but you are suspended for the season).

 

[dk_b]

CIF rules that apply to all schools in al the state's sections do not permit dual participation during the season. If you play any "outside competition" (even a scrimmage, depending on the circumstances), you lose 2 HS games for every outside game played (and that is a first time sanction; repeat offenses is not 2:1 again but you are suspended for the season).

Fun fact: this even includes YNT games and ODP (and PDP up here in NorCal) games if they have not been given prior approval by CIF. Google "Jacey Pederson/Palo Alto High School" to see what happens if not properly approved.

 

[jpeter]

you are taking a California-centric view. That works for a regional league but does not for a national league. And that was my point above. It's not that, say, DA could have permitted California players to play HS but that that would be "unfair" to the other 44 states + DC where HS soccer is NOT played in the winter.

You can't just tell the rest of the country to get on the CA schedule as fields are just not usable in winter. If the new league wants to centralize scheduling for all competitions (league and any showcases), it is an enormous undertaking if a certain number of clubs will shut down during fall, another number in winter and another number if spring. (and if they permit dual participation- HS and club - in the states where that is allowed, they should not be administering a youth sports platform. There is enough evidence of the injury risk of overuse that nobody needs a platform that expressly permits it)

Nah like I said DA operated fine for a number of years when HS play was common and scheduled around. ECNL and every other league manages so it's not about anything but exclusion and not working together.

 

[espola]

CIF rules that apply to all schools in al the state's sections do not permit dual participation during the season. If you play any "outside competition" (even a scrimmage, depending on the circumstances), you lose 2 HS games for every outside game played (and that is a first time sanction; repeat offenses is not 2:1 again but you are suspended for the season).

There used to be (don't know if it still exists) allowance for games with ODP or National youth teams with appropriate notice through the coach, AD, and Principal.

The "outside competition" included participating in scrimmages as part of a college tryout or ID camp, but some clever schools limited the scrimmaging teams to few enough players to stay out of CIF's clutches. Even with that, you could have an attacking 5-man team play a defending 5-man team perhaps using a small goal.

There were some CIF rule changes in the last few years that supposedly loosened up some of the college tryout restrictions, but I haven't kept up with the details.

 

[jpeter]

Is the Restriction is "no club players" or "players cant play club the same month they are also playing HS"?

Second seems easier to work around.

The only restriction is when you start HS competitions that are officiated you can't go back to play club soccer until you play your last HS competition.

You can play a club showcase or cup in Florida in DEC as you last club completion like this year in DA or ECNL. Next week play in DEC for a HS team in the Addias showcase. Play your HS league games through Feb and maybe even playoffs which normally end before March unless you win a section. Return to your club in march. This is standard practice and what's been going on for Many years.

 

[espola]

Fun fact: this even includes YNT games and ODP (and PDP up here in NorCal) games if they have not been given prior approval by CIF. Google "Jacey Pederson/Palo Alto High School" to see what happens if not properly approved.

That's a typical CIF stance - the adults screwed up but we can't punish them, so we will take it out on the students.

 

[dk_b]

Nah like I said DA operated fine for a number of years when HS play was common and scheduled around. ECNL and every other league manages so it's not about anything but exclusion and not working together.

The other national leagues that permit it do not schedule nationally other than playoffs and, in ECNL's case, showcases (but the clubs pick and choose in which showcases they want to participate). But US Soccer played it differently - they centralized all scheduling and to change their policy required not just a philosophical change but a logistical change. I don't disagree with you that there was an exclusionary aspect to this and it could have been solved with creative working together but that was never consistent with the approach (well, at least for most of the DA's existence; I have no idea if US Soccer always scheduled the boys' side but I know that at least as far back as 2011, HS was not permitted).

I'm a believer in HS participation - not b/c the soccer is great but b/c it is not really about the soccer but about being a teen, playing with and representing a community, etc. I have one kid graduating this year who played 4 years of HS soccer and still managed to achieve at the club and national level. She loved it for many ways that had nothing to do with soccer (and any coach who says/thinks that the kids "regress" too much during the HS season is absurd or must think that any significant injury ends a youth's soccer career since those often take them off the pitch for months at a time).

 

[jpeter]

There used to be (don't know if it still exists) allowance for games with ODP or National youth teams with appropriate notice through the coach, AD, and Principal.

The "outside competition" included participating in scrimmages as part of a college tryout or ID camp, but some clever schools limited the scrimmaging teams to few enough players to stay out of CIF's clutches. Even with that, you could have an attacking 5-man team play a defending 5-man team perhaps using a small goal.

There were some CIF rule changes in the last few years that supposedly loosened up some of the college tryout restrictions, but I haven't kept up with the details.

Yes ODP, YNT still exempt and ID camps limited to one visit per University with a total number limit I can't recall at the moment.

 

[dk_b]

That's a typical CIF stance - the adults screwed up but we can't punish them, so we will take it out on the students.

Completely agree with you. I have spent a lot of time on this particular rule and watching "the list" b/c of camps or trips. I have dealt with my local section + CIF + NFHS. The current folks do want things to work out for the kids but that has definitely not been the case. And not all ADs really understand how this works (esp if a school does not have a track record of NT participation in soccer or any other sport). It takes time (and for any of you running into an issue next year, send me a PM and I'm happy to share the path I pursued).

 

[dk_b]

Yes ODP, YNT still exempt and ID camps limited to one visit per University with a total number limit I can't recall at the moment.

Not automatically exempt - if you rely on the fact that is simply ODP and YNT, you may find yourself dealing with unintended consequences. You have to pay attention to this list: https://www.cifstate.org/governance/odp. If the event (YNT or ODP) does NOT appear on this list, your kid may have a problem. This requires coordination among US Soccer, NFHS and CIF and sometimes, w/o intent, that coordination breaks down. And that was the issue with Palo Alto HS/CCS/Pederson - nobody did anything "wrong" but a date was missed by a day or two.

 

[Soccerfan2]

Not automatically exempt - if you rely on the fact that is simply ODP and YNT, you may find yourself dealing with unintended consequences. You have to pay attention to this list: https://www.cifstate.org/governance/odp. If the event (YNT or ODP) does NOT appear on this list, your kid may have a problem. This requires coordination among US Soccer, NFHS and CIF and sometimes, w/o intent, that coordination breaks down. And that was the issue with Palo Alto HS/CCS/Pederson - nobody did anything "wrong" but a date was missed by a day or two.

How do events get on the list?

 

[espola]

Completely agree with you. I have spent a lot of time on this particular rule and watching "the list" b/c of camps or trips. I have dealt with my local section + CIF + NFHS. The current folks do want things to work out for the kids but that has definitely not been the case. And not all ADs really understand how this works (esp if a school does not have a track record of NT participation in soccer or any other sport). It takes time (and for any of you running into an issue next year, send me a PM and I'm happy to share the path I pursued).

CIF could solve this by allowing a simple appeal process in which "the adults screwed up" with supporting evidence would be good enough.

On another tack, I recall when a San Diego County player attended a training camp in Mexico in the summer before his HS Senior year put on by one of the pro teams there. At the end, some players were selected to stay longer for a closer look, and some of those were offered pro contracts. CIF announced they were investigating whether the extended tryout camp was a violation of their rules, and suggested that a final answer would not be available until the first week of Section playoffs. The team was given the option of playing without him, or keeping him on the team with the risk of forfeiting all the games in which he participated. The players voted unanimously to keep him (they knew he was their best player). The school won the CIF Section playoffs in their division, and the player in question got a 4-year full ride to Creighton with a short US pro career after that.

 

[espola]

Not automatically exempt - if you rely on the fact that is simply ODP and YNT, you may find yourself dealing with unintended consequences. You have to pay attention to this list: https://www.cifstate.org/governance/odp. If the event (YNT or ODP) does NOT appear on this list, your kid may have a problem. This requires coordination among US Soccer, NFHS and CIF and sometimes, w/o intent, that coordination breaks down. And that was the issue with Palo Alto HS/CCS/Pederson - nobody did anything "wrong" but a date was missed by a day or two.

I can tell you from personal experience that winning deep into a tournament playoff series and then being eliminated by forfeit over something the coaches and players had no control over is almost as good as winning the championship. The players can always say they were the other undefeated team in the tournament - "They had to find another way to get rid of us"

And it also negates my old judgment that most youth players lose the final game they play.

 

[jpeter]

Now you know who to talk with if your given the same old spiel on a different day

 

[Ellejustus]

Now you know who to talk with if your given the same ole' line on a different day

But the girls don;t get to make the decision, just the club or the conference? This is not at all about HS Soccer or why that dumb league folded it's tents in the first place. Blame it all on Corona. It was and is about HS Soccer and control of girls and making them go to college to continue playing soccer at a world class level. That's is exactly what happen to us two year. The club was in control and that is 100% BS unless it's 100% free like the Pats. That is fair. They pay and your butts mine. That is a choice. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-no one can play up or play HS. That is BS!!!!!!!

 

[jpeter]

But the girls don;t get to make the decision, just the club or the conference? This is not at all about HS Soccer or why that dumb league folded it's tents in the first place. Blame it all on Corona. It was and is about HS Soccer and control of girls and making them go to college to continue playing soccer at a world class level. That's is exactly what happen to us two year. The club was in control and that is 100% BS unless it's 100% free like the Pats. That is fair. They pay and your butts mine. That is a choice. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-no one can play up or play HS. That is BS!!!!!!!

Yup and you know exactly who's behind that. Those that made up the league and clubs that make your players choice for THEM if they choose that option.

 

[Ellejustus]

Yup and you know exactly who's behind that. Those that made up the league and clubs that make your players choice for THEM if they choose that option.

Wow!!!

 

[timbuck]

I've said it before - If your club didn't get selected for ECNL, and you want that level of play...then you should try out for an ECNL team. If your kid doesn't make that team, then play local club soccer. Join a team that will play in the showcases that you think are important.

 

[pokergod]

Now you know who to talk with if your given the same old spiel on a different day

If most of these clubs have their top kids in ECNL or ECNR, and the second and third kids in a combination of ga and dpl teams, then how much leverage do they have in keeping kids out of high school. Legends, Beach and Albion will, if possible, not allow this relegation to stand. I assume they will try to make the GA a direct competitor to ECNL by next year.

 

[Ellejustus]

If most of these clubs have their top kids in ECNL or ECNR, and the second and third kids in a combination of ga and dpl teams, then how much leverage do they have in keeping kids out of high school. Legends, Beach and Albion will, if possible, not allow this relegation to stand. I assume they will try to make the GA a direct competitor to ECNL by next year.

Zero leverage. The only leverage those clowns had on my dd was that List. We told them to go pound sound and you will see how stupid you are for not allowing hs soccer. Fools in business 101.