Club newbie Questions

C

CC_SoccerMom3

BRONZE
We are still fairly new to the “Club world” and just looking for some advice from others that may have been in our position in the past.

I have 2 DDs whose team has been together for just under a year. Most of the players were recruited by the coach during last year’s AYSO All Star season. They’ve played in a couple tournaments during Summer, took championship in 1 tourney and did just ‘ok’ in the others. We lost a couple players right before fall and picked up a few more just weeks before the season started.

For my kids, Fall season was a great learning experience, but the team didn’t fare so well only winning a couple games.

Towards the end of Fall season, the coach had a Team meeting and informed us he had recruited a few players for another team and that he was looking in to creating 2 teams, so he would be looking for an additional 6-8 players.

At this meeting, and on several occasions since then, he has preached on and on about “this is club soccer.. not everyone will get minutes” and doing what is best for the team. This was something we knew coming in to this.

The main problem has been that most of the his new recruits are not necessarily at the “club” level. And some feel he is just adding players for the money.

The team has participated in 4 or so scrimmages and 2 tournaments since he declared we’d have 2 teams and that some kids would get little to possibly no play time. During 1 tournament, our team beat a very good team that had only lost 2 games during Fall. During that specific game, 5 or so players got less than 10 mins play time. Needless to say, a couple parents were NOT happy about their kids’ low playing time and called the coach on it almost immediately. He had another meeting to re-iterate his intentions for 2 teams and players needing to work for their play time. 1 girl quit the team right after that.

Both of my daughters have been fortunate to either start in all of the matches or get very decent play time, so we aren’t upset about the 2 teams or the girls having to work hard and earning their positions.

My question is this:

On a team that is consistently losing, when do we look out for our own DDs development and move on/look for other teams?

If the coach is still giving certain players minutes, in order to keep their parents happy ($$$), do we stick around for yet another losing season?
 
1. They get along well with almost all the girls on the team and ate happy to go to practice/games. On few occasions, they say they arent too happy with the coach.
2. We heard good an bad things about tje coach before starting. In our own experience, he has great training drills and ideas... communication (with both parents and players) needs alot of work!
We come from the AYSO world, so we may not know all the criteria of what exactly a good coach should look like...
3. He does have a daughter on the team.
 
Without knowing the age its hard to give advice. Generally:

Youngers (12 and under) - We are establishing a love for the game. Playing time and less pressure is important. Its about having fun and developing skills.

Yougers 12-14 - At the higher levels Flight 1-2 and Silver - Premier, winning is an important function. At Bronze and Flight 3, playing time and winning should have better equality.

Olders 15+ - Its all about winning and developing and being seen by college coaches.
 
CC_SoccerMom3 said:
1. They get along well with almost all the girls on the team and ate happy to go to practice/games. On few occasions, they say they arent too happy with the coach.
2. We heard good an bad things about tje coach before starting. In our own experience, he has great training drills and ideas... communication (with both parents and players) needs alot of work!
We come from the AYSO world, so we may not know all the criteria of what exactly a good coach should look like...
3. He does have a daughter on the team.
Click to expand...
Time to find a New Team!!
 
I think you should look at wins/losses differently and not let that be the primary reason (or a reason at all) for deciding on the choice of coach. Is your team not competitive at all? If so, that means your club/coach put your team in the wrong flight (to appease the parents is a likely reason). I personally feel any team needs to play in a flight that gives them a realistic chance to win 30% of the league games (i.e. you're competitive).

Now, put aside the W-L consideration, as TangoCity posted above in #2, do you know what a good coach looks like or the type of coach you're looking for? This is not meant to be an offensive question to you, as it's something I also had to learn myself over the years. You need to know what you're shopping for before you can decide what to buy, right?

Regarding your question on playing time, let's do the math. On a team playing 9v9 with 11 players with 1 full time goalie, each field player gets an average of 48 minutes in a 60 minute game. Same scenario but with 14 players, each field player gets only 37 minutes or 23% less compared to a team with 11 players. Go to SCDSL's website and look at the size of the roster in the game logs. My DD's club's U-little teams typically field no more than 2 players over the minimum. Other club fields 4 or even 5 players over the minimum. I'm ok with letting my DD compete for playing time, but let's start out with a bigger piece of the pie :).

On your last point about leaving a team with below average players, perhaps you can look at this differently. Ask yourself honestly if your DD is "easily" the best or 2nd best player on the team. If so, it might be good for her to move to a more challenging environment. I personally want my DD to be the 6th or 7th best players on a team that plays 9v9 at the "beginning" of the year, so she has more room to improve.

Finally, I personally know of one team that was in a similar situation last year. They recruited for two teams but didn't get enough players, and ended up with just one team with 15 players playing 9v9. Make sure your coach is really going to have two teams.

Best of luck.
 
If you want your kids to advance in soccer or any sport , playing time is what they need! Why anyone would pay for a sport and have their kids get less than 10% playing time is mind boggling, BUT it happens alot !
Personally get you DD's on a team were they can play full games , if their youngers , they dont care about flight 1 or 2 status, that happens around age 10-11 IMO, parent seem to care more , like a status thing.
 
46n2 said:
If you want your kids to advance in soccer or any sport , playing time is what they need! Why anyone would pay for a sport and have their kids get less than 10% playing time is mind boggling, BUT it happens alot !
Personally get you DD's on a team were they can play full games , if their youngers , they dont care about flight 1 or 2 status, that happens around age 10-11 IMO, parent seem to care more , like a status thing.
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Sorry, but I completely disagree. The game is 1.5 hours. Practice is 6-8 hours per week. The game is simply a demonstration of the culmination of hours of practice. True development occurs during practice and training.
 
They are a 2006 team. Played bronze level in CSL during fall.
We never had any plans for them to play club soccer, they had always just played AYSO and all stars.. so we are learning..
My 2 have had a good share of the minutes, 1 has played a hand full of full games..
But i do see there's a probelm when we started Fall season with 14 players.
I can certainly say my 2 are not on the top 3 of their team, but i have noticed an improvement from when they first started...
We have about 20 girls right now showing up to practices.. with them moving to 11v11 next fall, im concerned the coach will not get enough players to field 2 teams..
 
I believe the parent is talking about youngers. You are partially right , practice is keen, but with youngers they practice at max 2.5-3 hrs a week with their coach during the week, and games are less than a hour.........
 
CC_SoccerMom3 said:
They are a 2006 team. Played bronze level in CSL during fall.
We never had any plans for them to play club soccer, they had always just played AYSO and all stars.. so we are learning..
My 2 have had a good share of the minutes, 1 has played a hand full of full games..
But i do see there's a probelm when we started Fall season with 14 players.
I can certainly say my 2 are not on the top 3 of their team, but i have noticed an improvement from when they first started...
We have about 20 girls right now showing up to practices.. with them moving to 11v11 next fall, im concerned the coach will not get enough players to field 2 teams..
Click to expand...

Is that the norm for your club? Personally 14 players for 9v9 is a deal breaker for me. That tells me club/coach is more interesting in meeting a quota. We always want a low faculty-to-student ratio in school. Shouldn't be any different in soccer.

Take Slammers as an example. My DD doesn't play for them and I'm not recommending for or against them. But I do know they purposely keep the U-little roster small so kids get more playing time for in-game development. I see quite a few 2006/2007 teams with only 10 or 11 players playing 9v9 on SCDSL's website. To me that's doing it the right way.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Now, put aside the W-L consideration, as TangoCity posted above in #2, do you know what a good coach looks like or the type of coach you're looking for? This is not meant to be an offensive question to you, as it's something I also had to learn myself over the years.
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I dont take offense one bit.. i am open to learning anything that i can!
My girls truly love and enjoy this sport and it has become a family thing for us.

What are certain qualities to look for? It cant be all about which license the coach holds, can it?
 
The license doesn't have great correlation with how good a coach is. There are plenty of bad A&Bs running around there, and some really great Es. An A is more likely to be experienced and have years in than the E, though, but you have to look as well at what their experience is (have they played college, have they only coached AYSO, how long have they been doing it). No coach is going to have all the skills: be a great manager, be a great communicator, inspire the kids without yelling, be a great tactician on the field, focus on individual development, focus on small group development, know how to recruit and put together a team, know how to sell players to colleges. Question is what do you want and at what age.

I'll share again the story of my niece. Her team lost pretty much every single game last fall. The coach was teaching them the passing game....to play possession instead of pass it to the fastest, strongest member of the team who'd run it down the field and score. Meant passing it back to the goalkeepers a lot who under pressure lost it near their goal. Also let the goalkeepers kick their own goalkicks when there were stronger legs on the team that could get it farther. By the end of the season the team was really clicking. You could tell they were learning something. They all stayed, despite the losses, except their lead striker, whose family felt they should have racked up more wins, and the lead goalkeeper, who felt blamed for the losses. Granted, they are a ulittles team and so they have the luxury of time. But even if the team falls apart, they came away knowing the possession and triangle system very well and could plug into any possession based team.
 
Starting bottom to top. I don’t like parent coaches. I never have. They don’t belong in club soccer.

Also, if you feel like he’s diluting to fill his wallet, bail.

Attend a practice and see what else is out there.

I would say, if you want to play at a higher level, and continue to progress, both of your kids better be standouts, or prepare for them to be split at some point.

Harsh reality. Prepare for it now.
 
CC_SoccerMom3 said:
I dont take offense one bit.. i am open to learning anything that i can!
My girls truly love and enjoy this sport and it has become a family thing for us.

What are certain qualities to look for? It cant be all about which license the coach holds, can it?
Click to expand...
What Grace T. said is pretty spot on. I think this is where you need to invest some time yourself and watch some soccer :) and decide what type of soccer you want to see your DD play. If your DD is 2006, she probably has some good ideas already.

My DD is a little younger than yours. Here are a few things I personally like from my DD's coaches during games and practices:
-Coach's demeanor during games. Go watch a few of the perspective games before tryout, and see how the coach acts in person.
-Do kids have the freedom to make in-game decisions? As Grace T mentioned, possession game for U-little is difficult at times. Take centerback position as an example. Does your centerback have the discretion to decide when to boot it and when to connect to teammates, or is she being instructed to simply clear it every time?
-Work a lot on passing, moving without the ball, making thru balls, switch sides, etc.
-Work on their weak foot
-In scrimmages, they need to do a skill or two before they are allowed to shoot.
 
Josep said:
Starting bottom to top. I don’t like parent coaches. I never have. They don’t belong in club soccer.

Also, if you feel like he’s diluting to fill his wallet, bail.

Attend a practice and see what else is out there.

I would say, if you want to play at a higher level, and continue to progress, both of your kids better be standouts, or prepare for them to be split at some point.

Harsh reality. Prepare for it now.
Click to expand...

I think that is one thing that has kept us around. Having them on the same team has been a relief!
But we do feel like the coach is just taking on new players for his wallet...

We are a little torn on the convenience of having them on the same team.


Anyone with experience with having multiple children with different teams/clubs?
 
I think it is HUGE generalization to say that "true development" occurs at practice (as opposed to games). This is really based on the individual. For some it is practice, for some it is training outside of practice and for some it is playing in games -- and for most it is some combination of the three. For my DD the biggest improvement she ever had was the year she played on likely her worst team with the coach that had the worst practices. She got better because she played pretty much every minute of every game and the coach had confidence in her and played her at one of the most important positions (center fullback) where she had to concentrate, learn to read the game in often a stressful situation (make a mistake and other team scores) and learn to not rely on other players to do the dirty work. It was the best thing that ever happened to her soccer career. She got ceremoniously cut the season before from a 'B' team at a high level club (DA) the year before where they had all their fancy practice plans and high paid coaches. Now she is as good or better than any of those players from the team she got cut from. I attribute a large chunk of that to the bad team/not so good coach she went to the next season where she played full time. And most of her skills at the younger age came from training with me ... not with any coach. Now she is with a really good team with a really good coach and still playing full time. Still plenty of room for improvement of course. I guess my point is ... don't underestimate the importance of playing time in soccer development. It is not just about showcasing what you learned in practice.
 
This is not a complex question. A Good Coach will communicate and follow through. His practices will be organized and constantly have them moving. Most importantly they will be there.

If a player does not see playing time at a young age its a waste of time. sixty percent is the minnimum.

Development is such a complex word as all players can go to same practice and do the same drills but why do some play better than others?

Players and parent will only be happy if they find a team that has a coach that is dedicated with a team that plays at the level of the player's potential. This will ensure playing time. Positioning is can also be a factor but it should not be at a young age.

Soccer in So Cal is a big mess with Club politics and the race to get on the latest Academy. Just go with your gut, there are great coaches everywhere. I have seen A license that are horrible and E that really know how to teach the game. That parent coach thing is also bologna. There are many professional players that have been coached by their fathers.In the end your player has to enjoy it. A good gauge is if they practice on their own.

Good luck and dont believe any hype. If it feels right it will be.
 
TangoCity said:
I think it is HUGE generalization to say that "true development" occurs at practice (as opposed to games). This is really based on the individual. For some it is practice, for some it is training outside of practice and for some it is playing in games -- and for most it is some combination of the three. For my DD the biggest improvement she ever had was the year she played on likely her worst team with the coach that had the worst practices. She got better because she played pretty much every minute of every game and the coach had confidence in her and played her at one of the most important positions (center fullback) where she had to concentrate, learn to read the game in often a stressful situation (make a mistake and other team scores) and learn to not rely on other players to do the dirty work. It was the best thing that ever happened to her soccer career. She got ceremoniously cut the season before from a 'B' team at a high level club (DA) the year before where they had all their fancy practice plans and high paid coaches. Now she is as good or better than any of those players from the team she got cut from. I attribute a large chunk of that to the bad team/not so good coach she went to the next season where she played full time. And most of her skills at the younger age came from training with me ... not with any coach. Now she is with a really good team with a really good coach and still playing full time. Still plenty of room for improvement of course. I guess my point is ... don't underestimate the importance of playing time in soccer development. It is not just about showcasing what you learned in practice.
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@TangoCity,
You are basically making the point that your kid has a really unique experience and wouldn't be where she was today because she worked on her skills with you outside of formal practice (also called training), but the games were especially impactful. Ok. Your kid is the exception.

If, practice wasn't that important the USSDA teams would play 3 games and practice twice a week. They don't. They practice and train 4 days a week for hours each day and play a game or two on the weekend. Clubs in Europe, Latin America and the America's train, train, train all week long for the 1.5 hour game. I'm sorry, but for 95% of the kids training/practice makes them better ... not 30 minutes or 50 minutes in a game. Coaching is thrown out the window in a game. During a game kids are forced to employ what they learned and while games are important, practice and training is much more important.

Take a goalkeeper, these kids run through hundreds of shots during training/practice ... games? 10 to 12 shots.

My experience is the opposite. The ball skills, passing, first touch, set plays, crosses, wall passes, etc., are all learned and honed during practice/training. The boys learn to trust each other and try new things during the small sided training games. The goalkeepers hone their dives, ground level scoops, hand positions, defense of crosses, etc., during practice.
 
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