That's what US Soccer will claim; however, they have not granted U13 to clubs based solely on their previous years U12's DA won/loss record.
2006 DA Standings
- Thread starter USC
- Start date
That's what US Soccer will claim; however, they have not granted U13 to clubs based solely on their previous years U12's DA won/loss record.
TFA anyone? A club that should be granted status, geography be damned. It’s about the level of competition a club can provide. They’ve proven themselves over the years.
But clubs with very strong U12 DA records also did not receive U13 status last year, so I'm somewhat dubious that someone said it was the record itself, rather than something underlying the record (like poor coaching/organization etc).
As for why TFA has only u12 status lots has been written in the past few years about that club here on boards. We all know that TFA historically has no exceptional teams past u12, u13 age groups and their older teams seems to erode after certain age group. With the advent of LAFC academy and geographical proximity of LAUFA and Galaxy academies to that area of city maybe it makes no sense to grant then full DA status?
If TFA got academy status past U12, then they could hold on to more of the players they developed right? They offer a fully funded program after all...... they would field much stronger teams at U13, 14 etc. I feel like if weaker '06 clubs that charge $ get additional Academy years based on geography and TFA gets passed over that would be an egregious soccer wrong. TFA's current '06 team gives LAFC and Galaxy fits.... good healthy competition......shouldn't that be the goal?
I think there are clear requirements for a full DA status. I personally have nothing against TFA, their ulittle teams are amazing but to be honest there is not much development there, most of the boys on those coveted teams came from other smaller clubs. How many 2006 boys left TFA last year for other clubs? How many left now during the winter break? Again historically their teams erode after certain age...
That’s because a majority of their quality players that reach DA age go on to play at a DA club. Their older teams losing steam is no mystery. LAG rosters are deep with former TFA kids for example.
You’re making an indirect case for my argument on condensing the league. Give TFA full status, or rather let them age up into full status (same for LAUFA), and cut the weak clubs out. The few DA quality players per team at the cut clubs will find new homes at the fully funded DA teams that remain, and quite possibly replace weaker players on those established DA teams. The math is pretty easy at that point. Less DA roster spots available in LA, SD, and Orange Counties = stronger teams = more meaningful and useful competition = better overall development. Wash, rinse, repeat throughout the rest of the country.
Majority of their players leave before they even hit DA status age group, it happened before. I think some other posters already provided evidence/reasons for 10 teams at u12 level, but please let me know which clubs would you cut for “underpeforming” at u12? This year everything will change and lots of kids will leave DA, at u13 we will have totally different landscape. What you are asking will happen anyways during the summer, player movements and reshuffling.
As the parent of an LA premier kid, I cannot argue that their first year of DA has been tough. I take no offense to the comments above. That said, let them have a moment to work out some kinks. In my
Mind, they are a group
Of kids that has really only played competively and together for a few months. As of August they were still short 8 players, the Head Coach had to leave for personal reasons , and many of the new boys that were needed in order to fill the team were younger/less experienced were playing a faster game or playing new position for the first time in their life. They have shown vast improvement since the beginning of the season under the DA program. While admittedly selfish, I would hate for the team to a get a bad rap when they might have potential if we dont judge their future success on their first year of DA. It’s a marathon not a sprint.
Bright spots have been that both of their matches against LAUFA and Santa Barbara resulted in 1 game premiere won confidently and the other a tie. I realize that these are not “top” teams, but to me it shows promise against teams that already had established DA teams.
I don’t think they will ever be able to compete with the fully funded MLS teams that have every top kid knocking on their door, but I am hopeful that they will become a respectable team that brings a few surprise kids to the table in the future. #optimistic
Mind, they are a group
Of kids that has really only played competively and together for a few months. As of August they were still short 8 players, the Head Coach had to leave for personal reasons , and many of the new boys that were needed in order to fill the team were younger/less experienced were playing a faster game or playing new position for the first time in their life. They have shown vast improvement since the beginning of the season under the DA program. While admittedly selfish, I would hate for the team to a get a bad rap when they might have potential if we dont judge their future success on their first year of DA. It’s a marathon not a sprint.
Bright spots have been that both of their matches against LAUFA and Santa Barbara resulted in 1 game premiere won confidently and the other a tie. I realize that these are not “top” teams, but to me it shows promise against teams that already had established DA teams.
I don’t think they will ever be able to compete with the fully funded MLS teams that have every top kid knocking on their door, but I am hopeful that they will become a respectable team that brings a few surprise kids to the table in the future. #optimistic
It's a matter of degrees......the fall off in quality is staggering from top to bottom. But moreso I'm seeing some of these struggling academies that aren't recruiting and aren't spending more on coaching and/or organization. They just simply moved their previously CSL or SCSDL team/roster into the DA with no real changes. Kids on some of these teams attend practice or games in a spotty manner just as when they were a club team. DA should be a step up in commitment from both the kids/families and the organization.
I have nothing but respect for you and your son and the courage to speak up here. But it's the organization: if they're short 8 players in August that's an organizational problem. A coaching staff should be ample enough to handle a coach needing a leave of absence. How is it possible LAPremier can't proactively address these issues 4 weeks before the start of their first U12 Academy season!! LAPFC has PLENTY of money. I'd hate to see your son's terrific effort being short changed by an organization not up to the task.
Definitely raise some good points here. Paul Walker does not have the infrastructure right now to advance his program much past the youngers. I think that's probably a big reason why USSDA doesn't grant him the olders. But if achieving additional years of DA status helped stabilize his program he might be able to grow it. His track record is pretty clear. Why should a rich underachieving "pay" DA team get status over TFA? How many state cups, Surf Cups Man City Cups does he have to win?!
As for development I would disagree with you there. He always recruits smaller more technically gifted kids and utilizes the "beautiful game" build from the back style that is the essence of development. I've never seen one of his teams "park the bus" or punt the ball to the striker. Owing to his being outsider, by necessity he has to get results/trophies, which is a drawback for development but he's the barbarian at the gate trying to get into the DA castle. I think he deserves it more than some DA teams I've seen this season.
Exactly as you said he recruits technically gifted, his club does not develop he pretty much gets the finished product! Cudos for all the tourneys won, but how many national titles they won, how many national team players developed? TFA does the same job other “big” clubs do, takes the finished product aka technically gifted kids for a year or two...
Dargle did a great job explaining TFA:
“First of all, TFA is not exactly a "home-grown" club. It assembles teams that include many great players from elsewhere and so the question of who really "developed" the player can come up even at these younger ages. TFA 06, one of its strongest teams, had kids from as far away as Santa Monica and Simi Valley in its starting lineup last year, and it has two kids from Santa Monica this year. Those kids were already accomplished players, recognized as the best or among the best on their teams, when they went to TFA. TFA 07 was a decent team last year, but nothing special. The success of the 06 group led a bunch of players from elsewhere to come out to the 07s.
Nevertheless, it's fair to say that these great players were attracted to TFA, at least in part,because of the coaching, the intense environment, and the constellation of strong players. Money, however, also plays a role. TFAoffers fully funded top teams at the younger age groups (which they can do because of PW's fundraising, not because other teams in the club have wealthy parents). There aren't that manypre-DA teams that are fully-funded, so that helps attract great players who need the subsidy, which in turn helps attract great players from wealthier areas who don't need the subsidy, but recognize that there are a bunch of great players in oneplace at the club. So, even if TFA didn't do all that much to polish its diamonds, so-to-speak, justproviding full funding at the younger age groups, while providing professional coaching, in acentral location, and access to great tournaments, is going to give them a strategic advantage in recruiting and competing even if they didn't doanything else to develop the players.
So, what do they do special with their teams? Inaddition to the intangible benefits provided by recruiting great players and forcing them tocompete hard for every minute of practice, TFA has a system. It's part of the curriculum it sells to convince clubs to affiliate (and thereby pay funds to allow them to subsidize their teams). It'sprimarily a tactical system for players that are already technically sound. One of the mostdifficult things for younger age group kids is problem solving. They freeze when faced with too many choices, they make the wrong decisions,etc. TFA coaches give kids something like four things they should do from every position depending upon the situation. Then they drill those things home until the kids get very good at them. It's pretty formulaic, although I don't want to overstate that. Lots of coaching at the younger ages is formulaic. TFA just teaches the formulas better. That, plus the fact that the kids are already very technically good, they have been conditioned well and hustle/compete etc, makes them verygood compared to other younger teams.
What happens when the kids get older? Some of them build upon that initial foundation of tactical strategy and become very good. Others neverdevelop the ability to adapt and think on their own, especially when faced with teams that shut down their options. It's made worse when they aren't with kids taught the same thing, though,since the options don't work if the your teammates aren't looking for them. That isn't really a knock on TFA, per se. Many, if not most, of the latter group of kids might never have had the ability to come up with the four tacticaloptions if left to other coaching so it's not like they were really made worse for it. And those kids who can build upon that initial foundation may have greatly accelerated their development bygetting there a lot faster. The bottom line, however, is other teams eventually catch up because (1) there are more fully-funded options or fewer teams and therefore less talent dispersion, and (2) because the advantage intactical acumen is reduced as other kids get more mature and understand the game better.”
“First of all, TFA is not exactly a "home-grown" club. It assembles teams that include many great players from elsewhere and so the question of who really "developed" the player can come up even at these younger ages. TFA 06, one of its strongest teams, had kids from as far away as Santa Monica and Simi Valley in its starting lineup last year, and it has two kids from Santa Monica this year. Those kids were already accomplished players, recognized as the best or among the best on their teams, when they went to TFA. TFA 07 was a decent team last year, but nothing special. The success of the 06 group led a bunch of players from elsewhere to come out to the 07s.
Nevertheless, it's fair to say that these great players were attracted to TFA, at least in part,because of the coaching, the intense environment, and the constellation of strong players. Money, however, also plays a role. TFAoffers fully funded top teams at the younger age groups (which they can do because of PW's fundraising, not because other teams in the club have wealthy parents). There aren't that manypre-DA teams that are fully-funded, so that helps attract great players who need the subsidy, which in turn helps attract great players from wealthier areas who don't need the subsidy, but recognize that there are a bunch of great players in oneplace at the club. So, even if TFA didn't do all that much to polish its diamonds, so-to-speak, justproviding full funding at the younger age groups, while providing professional coaching, in acentral location, and access to great tournaments, is going to give them a strategic advantage in recruiting and competing even if they didn't doanything else to develop the players.
So, what do they do special with their teams? Inaddition to the intangible benefits provided by recruiting great players and forcing them tocompete hard for every minute of practice, TFA has a system. It's part of the curriculum it sells to convince clubs to affiliate (and thereby pay funds to allow them to subsidize their teams). It'sprimarily a tactical system for players that are already technically sound. One of the mostdifficult things for younger age group kids is problem solving. They freeze when faced with too many choices, they make the wrong decisions,etc. TFA coaches give kids something like four things they should do from every position depending upon the situation. Then they drill those things home until the kids get very good at them. It's pretty formulaic, although I don't want to overstate that. Lots of coaching at the younger ages is formulaic. TFA just teaches the formulas better. That, plus the fact that the kids are already very technically good, they have been conditioned well and hustle/compete etc, makes them verygood compared to other younger teams.
What happens when the kids get older? Some of them build upon that initial foundation of tactical strategy and become very good. Others neverdevelop the ability to adapt and think on their own, especially when faced with teams that shut down their options. It's made worse when they aren't with kids taught the same thing, though,since the options don't work if the your teammates aren't looking for them. That isn't really a knock on TFA, per se. Many, if not most, of the latter group of kids might never have had the ability to come up with the four tacticaloptions if left to other coaching so it's not like they were really made worse for it. And those kids who can build upon that initial foundation may have greatly accelerated their development bygetting there a lot faster. The bottom line, however, is other teams eventually catch up because (1) there are more fully-funded options or fewer teams and therefore less talent dispersion, and (2) because the advantage intactical acumen is reduced as other kids get more mature and understand the game better.”
There is development at TFA. My son went through it there. He was not a finished product by any definition when he arrived.
RedDevilDad
GOLD
Watfly, you were correct. Good eye on catching the points error. I found a formula error. My fault.
Here's the correct version:
Here's the correct version:
RedDevilDad
GOLD
I was curious how all the teams stack up... Blue= LA, Red = SD
John Akii-Bua
BRONZE
Can we please put to bed the idea that TFA doesn't develop players? My son is one of those kids who came to TFA at u11 "fully developed" according to this logic. He's thrived at TFA and, more to the point, completely transformed his game from a classic poacher to a team player.
Couple of points:
- The idea that some other hard-working club put in the effort to train up my kid and PW just reaps the rewards is completely comical. We all know what kind of crap coaching we're likely to find in the the fun neighborhood club. You can't compare the training at TFA to what he was getting before.
- at u11, there's no such thing as "the finished product". There are better and worse players for sure, but anyone that age has a ton to learn. TFA has a clear curriculum for what it wants to teach. The evidence is on the field, no one plays possession soccer like TFA. If you don't think possession soccer will serve your kid, take him someplace else. Most of the parents at TFA aren't just there for the funding, we also think possession soccer is the platform for learning good movement, quick decision making, and team play, which will serve our kids in the long term.
- Why knock just TFA for getting recruits? It's the name of the game for Galaxy and FCLA, and pretty much all the DA system. Hell, my son's local u10 coach told me we have to win everything now, so that we establish ourselves as the best team in the area to recruit the best players.
You can argue that TFA doesn't deserve expansion for geographic reasons. I'd disagree, but it really depends on what US Soccer's strategy is, which none of us really knows for sure. But to say there's little player development at TFA isn't correct, especially by the standards of the DA system.
RedDevilDad
GOLD
No. Your logic is useless here. If TFA's team beats my kid's team... TFA is evil and therefore someone else made that player good. My kid's club turns down any players with talent and we only find that kid who eats grass so we can turn him into the next Messi.
TFA will always be hated because they make the rest of us have to own up to the reality that a non-MLS DA can be a top team. I don't mind hating the MLS DAs because they have the draw and resource because they are an MLS team... TFA messes up my excuses so therefore TFA didn't really develop their talent.
It's a no-brainer that TFA doesn't do well in the older ages because most players leave to continue in the DA. No one wants to take a step backward and play club again. I know a lot of the parents are betting their paycheck that they will be granted the U13 age group but i'm not so sure.