Build out line - Can everyone please agree on the rules?

justneededaname

SILVER ELITE
First off, let me say, I like the build out line. My oldest played before it was implemented and now I am experiencing it for the first time with my DD. And, like most/all of our parents, I don't know what the actual rules are for implementing it in a game.

Second, her team played three games this weekend and all three had refs that were very good with these young inexperienced players. Except, all three implemented the build out line differently.

This was our girls first time playing with the build out line so in each game the refs spent a lot of time teaching the girls their rules for how to implement it. Unfortunately, that meant a lot of time was spent in each game explaining how to play the build out line. Our girls are 7 so they are easily confused. But they are also good learners. In the first game they learned the rules. Then in the second they tried to play by them only to find out the rules were different for this ref. So they relearned them. Then in the third game they tried to apply them, and again, had to relearn them for that game.

As I said, I don't know the rules, so I don't know which ref was "right". Each interpretation to me was perfectly acceptable. I would just prefer some consistency so that the girls can spend more time practicing what they learn instead of having to relearn each time.
 
this is what we have received lately.


i haven't watched it yet.
What I find perplexing is that I was told that the line was supposed to be in between the top of the box and the mid line, not between the touch line and the mid line. We did friendlies this weekend with the way we had thought it was supposed to be, it does work great. They are supposed to stay behind the line until the receiving player touches the ball. If the line is they way he explains, it is just outside the box. That said, the boxes are supposed to be much smaller with no 6 yard box. The problem is, US soccer has not just said this is what you are doing, the end. I asked a couple friends from other states and they have different interpretations.
 
What I find perplexing is that I was told that the line was supposed to be in between the top of the box and the mid line, not between the touch line and the mid line. ...
The Cal South document describing the 2017-18 Player Development Initiatives (PDI) at http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Top_Stories/2017/USSF_SSG_Chart_update_041017.pdf?rev=28DA shows the line just as Socal United describes. However, the illustration and narrative in the video describes it as halfway between the goal line and the halfway (midfield) line. A governing body puts its referees in an unfortunate situation when there's a discrepancy between written direction and training material. When some referees follow one and other referees do the other there are complaints from coaches and parents about referee inconsistency and the refs get the blame rather than the governing body. For example, consider recent history on the initial implementation of the "no heading" rule.
 
Upon further review, I note that the CalSouth PDI document indicates that only 9U and 10U with 7 vs 7 have the build out line. The OP relates his observation of games with 7 year old players so who knows what rules apply. Are 8U and below playing 4 vs 4 like the PDI describes or are clubs doing their own thing at 7U and 8U?
 
Upon further review, I note that the CalSouth PDI document indicates that only 9U and 10U with 7 vs 7 have the build out line. The OP relates his observation of games with 7 year old players so who knows what rules apply. Are 8U and below playing 4 vs 4 like the PDI describes or are clubs doing their own thing at 7U and 8U?
I don't think anyone is playing 4v4. I can't imagine there will be much implementation of that now or in the future. When calsouth puts its foot down, everyone will just work around it.
You are right, the refs have a tough enough time as it is. All of these new rules, with all of these judgements make it so much more difficult. Along those lines, they discuss a goal kick. I was told that there were no more goal kicks, the ball started in the goalie's hands. If the keeper has the ball on either a save or a ball kicked out, he plays it from there. No goal kicks. It is very frustrating also for us coaches that are trying to teach the kids how to play with these new rules, but the target is always moving. :)
 
So am I understanding the video correctly when he states NOT offsides if between mid line and build out line? Is this regardless of whether or not there is a second last opponent level with or behind you?
 
I'm glad I don't referee these games.
The scary part is, these games are usually reffed by the 14 or the 114 year olds. Going to be way more work than it used to be. The offsides can only take place in the offensive 3rd of the field, beyond the play out line. Parents are going to be losing their minds over the offsides calls, it is already funny enough when they do and the teams are not even past the mid line. :)
 
I'm glad I don't referee these games.

I am going to try to avoid them unless it is as a single referee. The $55-$60 per game is too much to pass up. The rules don't seem too complicated. It will just take a couple weeks in the fall for teams to adjust. My only concern is for those referee's that do not go to monthly meetings and do not stay current on the changes. They will e the ones causing problems.
 
I am going to try to avoid them unless it is as a single referee. The $55-$60 per game is too much to pass up. The rules don't seem too complicated. It will just take a couple weeks in the fall for teams to adjust. My only concern is for those referee's that do not go to monthly meetings and do not stay current on the changes. They will e the ones causing problems.
the only bad thing about these games are the parents. love the littles......
 
The scary part is, these games are usually reffed by the 14 or the 114 year olds. Going to be way more work than it used to be. The offsides can only take place in the offensive 3rd of the field, beyond the play out line. Parents are going to be losing their minds over the offsides calls, it is already funny enough when they do and the teams are not even past the mid line. :)

If the OP's experience was the Madrid Cup, then I very well could have been one of those referees. The Cal South PDI is fairly clear. The difficult thing is the SCDSL changed the rules during the initial season and there is some disagreement as to the placement of the BOL. Here is what I can tell you how I referee the BOL:

1) All defenders behind the BOL until GK plays the ball and the offensive players receives the ball, UNLESS, the GK elects to play the ball while the defenders have yet to get back, then ... defenders can engage (as long as they were making a good faith effort to get back). Spirit of the rule is to allow a touch before being harassed, but not to disadvantage the defenders if the offense plays from the back fast.

2) No offside until after BOL ... this is hard for the coaches dressed like parents ... ohhh so very hard.

Parent: "Cindy your offside."
Cindy: Look of confusion ... runs back
Me: "Parents, no offside until after the BOL. I strongly suggest you don't coach from the sideline ... coaches hate that." "Cindy, ignore your dad, you were fine."
Coach: [Big smile and thumbs up]​

Now, with regard to No. 2, the SCDSL started with the no offside rule, then changed it a few games into the season. SCDSL was an early adopter ... good for them, but changing the offside to "after the half" confused the heck out of everybody.
 
If the OP's experience was the Madrid Cup, then I very well could have been one of those referees.

1) All defenders behind the BOL until GK plays the ball and the offensive players receives the ball, UNLESS, the GK elects to play the ball while the defenders have yet to get back, then ... defenders can engage (as long as they were making a good faith effort to get back). Spirit of the rule is to allow a touch before being harassed, but not to disadvantage the defenders if the offense plays from the back fast.

2) No offside until after BOL ... this is hard for the coaches dressed like parents ... ohhh so very hard.

If you had one of our games at Madrid Cup, thank you very much. All our refs were very good. Based on your response to point number 1, then you would have had either game 1 or 3, but definitely not game 2. In game 2 the defenders could engage as soon as the goalie put the ball in play without waiting for another player to receive it. Based on the response to point number 2, you might have had our first game. In the third game offside was called at the half (which worked in our favor, we would have lost by a lot more if they called it at the BOL).

My original post was inspired by interpretations of point number 1. Until these responses started rolling in, I did not even know the BOL had anything to do with offside.
 
If you had one of our games at Madrid Cup, thank you very much. All our refs were very good. Based on your response to point number 1, then you would have had either game 1 or 3, but definitely not game 2. In game 2 the defenders could engage as soon as the goalie put the ball in play without waiting for another player to receive it. Based on the response to point number 2, you might have had our first game. In the third game offside was called at the half (which worked in our favor, we would have lost by a lot more if they called it at the BOL).

My original post was inspired by interpretations of point number 1. Until these responses started rolling in, I did not even know the BOL had anything to do with offside.
Various leagues/tournaments adapt different interpretations of the rules. The trick is to always read competition rules. They are not always the same. The referee may have a game in the morning that interprets the rule one way and another game in the afternoon that interprets it another way, hence the need for referees to always read competition rules for each gaming circuit prior to the game.
 
If you had one of our games at Madrid Cup, thank you very much. All our refs were very good. Based on your response to point number 1, then you would have had either game 1 or 3, but definitely not game 2. In game 2 the defenders could engage as soon as the goalie put the ball in play without waiting for another player to receive it. Based on the response to point number 2, you might have had our first game. In the third game offside was called at the half (which worked in our favor, we would have lost by a lot more if they called it at the BOL).

My original post was inspired by interpretations of point number 1. Until these responses started rolling in, I did not even know the BOL had anything to do with offside.

According to Presidio & Cal South, "After the ball is put into play by the goalkeeper, the opposing team can cross the build out line and play resumes as normal."

See this handout.
 
According to Presidio & Cal South, "After the ball is put into play by the goalkeeper, the opposing team can cross the build out line and play resumes as normal."

See this handout.

Same exact verbiage for the US Soccer PDI http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Resources/PDIFebruary2017.pdf?rev=B87B
No mention that an offensive player has to touch it first. Not sure why some refs believe it has to be touched by an offensive player first. Maybe different league rules?
 
Various leagues/tournaments adapt different interpretations of the rules. The trick is to always read competition rules. They are not always the same. The referee may have a game in the morning that interprets the rule one way and another game in the afternoon that interprets it another way, hence the need for referees to always read competition rules for each gaming circuit prior to the game.
You are exactly right but that is pie in the sky. I now carry a copy of the rules with me at each tournament, I have spent more time this summer explaining the rules to the refs than ever before. I think one issue is many of the smaller tournaments don't have a lead person there to make sure that they have read the rules, so they just put their yellow shirt on and ref. It is very important as I don't think I have been in two tournaments with the same rules.
 
You are exactly right but that is pie in the sky. I now carry a copy of the rules with me at each tournament, I have spent more time this summer explaining the rules to the refs than ever before. I think one issue is many of the smaller tournaments don't have a lead person there to make sure that they have read the rules, so they just put their yellow shirt on and ref. It is very important as I don't think I have been in two tournaments with the same rules.

I have worked three tournaments (OC, SD and Chino areas) this year where the rules were vague and the field marshals could not clarify. I also attended three referee training sessions in May and all three put out similar but different information. It is not always the referee's fault.
 
I have worked three tournaments (OC, SD and Chino areas) this year where the rules were vague and the field marshals could not clarify. I also attended three referee training sessions in May and all three put out similar but different information. It is not always the referee's fault.
Did the governing bodies not put out a clear rule like Presidio did? And seeing how Presidio's handout is actually from Cal South, shouldn't all of us referees of games in OC, SD and Chino follow the same rule unless told otherwise in writing at a specific tournament?
 
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