Build out line - Can everyone please agree on the rules?

Discussion in 'C'mon Ref!' started by justneededaname, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    The BO line also causes an AR to have to pay more attention to their offside positioning/watching. Some coaches get cute and station a player right at the BO line. For an AR, staying with '2nd to last', could mean that they are further away. Since the player is not offside, when standing inside of the BO line, a hard kicked ball to them gives an immediate direct goal attack. The question becomes did they break the plane of the BO line, before receiving the ball. The AR would possibly have to run like crazy to get back.
     
  2. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    Have to issue an apology to some one from Irvine. They attempted to access the sites that I had previously listed, for PDI information, and were denied access to the site. They were coming from a 'Cox' service provider. I had previously blocked all of Cox, due to a number of 'bad apples' that had attempted access, using improper methods. I have opened it back up to Cox subscribers.
     
  3. baldref

    baldref Silver

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    A 7v7 game shouldn’t have an AR at all
    The fields are so small any competent referee can over it solo.
    I did a number of these games this season and had no trouble with any of them
    Some of the most fun games
     
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  4. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver

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    From my understanding, the build-out line was put in to train teams to have their keepers play the ball to their defenders and then have the defenders move the ball up the field and to eliminate the strategy of putting the kid with the biggest kick as your keeper and letting him boot it or punt it to the other team's penalty area.

    I can't believe I'm going to say it, but I am going to eat some crow and admit that I think the build-out line actually accomplished it's "purpose" in the instance of my son's AYSO league play. In the beginning it was a little rough on everyone; refs, coaches, parents, players. But by the end of the season, my kid's U10 team (and the majority of their opponents) were playing the ball to the feet of their defenders and working the ball up the side of the field with small passes and ball skills. This was a big change from how the games of my now 15 year old looked when she was in U10. The kids got it pretty quickly, the league had the fields marked uniformly at every location, and the refs (myself included) got a handle on it within 2-3 games. Most of the coaches dealt with it the same way, which was to position one defender near the end line outside the box, and have the keeper roll or on goal kicks pass to them, they would have the mid-fielder waiting near the BOL and when the forwards ran to the defender who had the ball, they would pass it up the line to the midfielder. In the games where the teams were doing this, the games were amazingly attractive to watch, with action going end to end. It tended to curb coaching tactics like putting your weakest players as defenders and your fast ball handlers as forwards. Our team had lots of success by putting one of the most skilled players as a defender because he could get the ball out of our own half with ease and join the attack. Not saying it was perfect, as some coaches would just transfer the "big kick" strategy to the defender who gets it from the keeper, but I was impressed with the results. And I was a real skeptic at first.
     
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  5. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver

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    However, officiating and teaching the offside rule to U10 players, parents and volunteer refs (already one of the least understood rules in sports) was definitely made more complicated by the addition of the BOL. In practice, it did not result in many disagreements from the sideline because the parents were too befuddled by the rule to argue with you. Hell, if I made a bad call on the direction of a throw-in I could just say "build out line" and everyone would just shrug and shut up. LOL
     
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  6. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    The problem is that tournament officials sometimes 'interpret' the rules in different fashions, what may be 'clear' to officials at one tournament may not be the same at another tournament. This is due to the manner in which some read, the PDI documents. Sometimes people may modify the rules, to suit the way they see things. The referee then gets the raw stick on this, as they have to explain to teams as to why the rules dictated by US Soccer are not being precisely followed. I saw recently, at a tournament, where the published rules had been followed for all games, for half a day. A coach then talked the presiding tournament director into 'modifying' a rule, which they stated was 'unclear'--to THEM. This meant that the teams in the morning played under the pre-tournament issued rules. They they came back for their afternoon games and the rules were different. This caused anxiety and confusion for the afternoon referees, the coaches, and the players. The coaches took their displeasure out on the referees.
     
  7. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    Good for you guys. You achieved what the PDI was meant to do, improve ball handling skills, both defensively & offensively!! It can be a difficult transition for people that have followed soccer for a while, who are often heard yelling 'just let them play'.
     
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  8. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    It is going to be a while before a Spring season starts, and before Fall season comes back around. The following item is from my website, and will help to tickle your remembrance of PDI play, when those thoughts need reviving:

    http://www.yatahoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Build-Out-Line-Manual-Jan-2017.pdf
     
  9. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    I have seen that happen before and it is not a good sight.
     
  10. Surfref

    Surfref Silver

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    There is nothing complicated about Law 11 (offside). The BOL does not make it anymore difficult.
     
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  11. watfly

    watfly Bronze

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    I would generally agree with this; however, the "new" rule of "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball is not considered to have gained an advantage." has now added the element of intent to the determination of offside. While maybe not complicated, it does complicate any rule when intent has to be determined as opposed to a purely objective measure like the offside rule had been in the past. Some ref's aren't even aware of this rule and certainly fewer coaches and players know about it. While the situation doesn't arise very often it's rare when a ref doesn't call an offside in this situation...present company excluded, of course.
     
  12. Mystery Train

    Mystery Train Silver

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    Note that I said offside is not well understood. Didn't say the rule itself is complicated. As for whether or not the BOL makes it more difficult to teach or officiate, it moved/changed the criteria of an already poorly understood rule, so there were a lot of people who got confused. Glad you weren't one of them. I happen to think it works ok.
     
  13. GunninGopher

    GunninGopher

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    I did a few 7v7's for the first time this year at Presidio cup. The only thing that was remaining to be mis-understood was the keeper drop kick. I explained to both teams prior to the game that I didn't want them bouncing it and kicking it into the air. I wanted the ball on the ground. I know this was something that has been a problem with inconsistent enforcement, so I got clarification from the field marshall about it prior to the match (a Presidio board member).

    A player did it, even after a verbal reminder during the match, and the IFK was enforced on the "18". Coach got the normal bent out of shape but understood when I reminded him. I asked the coach to control one of his ignorant parents, and that happened, too.

    Can we please quit complaining about all the changes that have happened over the last 2 seasons? It is over. It is easy to understand and enforce. If someone doesn't get it, they are probably an adult, because the kids don't seem to be bothered by it.

    Why even dig up this old thread?
     
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  14. espola

    espola Silver Elite

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    If you are going to just make up your own rules, I hope you tell the players about it before the game.
     
  15. fantasyfutbol

    fantasyfutbol Bronze

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    I have witnessed Presidio League games where the player was behind the line, a teammate passed the ball, the ball rolls across the build out line, the player that was behind the build out line then crosses the build out line and takes a first touch on the opponents side of the build out line. The referees called this offside several times during the game. The explanation was that the player had to receive the ball behind the build out line.

    That was very confusing for a young player who was taught to be onside until a teammate passes the ball into space. Now the U little player needs to be mindful of two variations of offside? This can't be right...anyone know?
     
  16. baldref

    baldref Silver

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    It’s not right
     
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  17. baldref

    baldref Silver

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    Dementia post
     
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  18. watfly

    watfly Bronze

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    Yes there are some that just don't like the BOL and are going to complain regardless and just need to get over it. However, there are those that are genuinely frustrated by the continued inconsistent application of the elements of the BOL, or are just seeking clarity between actual rule vs. game day application. The two primary elements I see misapplied are 1) some refs believe that the ball is not in play until an offensive player touches the ball, and not when the keeper releases the ball (in fact, a ref on this very thread mistates this concept) and 2) refs that will not allow the keeper to release the ball until all the defenders are behind the buildout line. Admittedly, SCDSL in their initial rollout last year did modify the rules from the PDI, but corrected them shortly thereafter. However, Calsouth has been consistent from the start.

    Whether you and I think this BOL rules are easy to understand and straightforward is irrelevant, when the reality is that some refs continue to misunderstand the rules.
     
  19. GunninGopher

    GunninGopher

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    I'll take the instructions I got from both Presidio and Referee Association board members as a higher authority than a snide internet comment.

    And to answer your specific comment, the post says that I told the teams prior to the match and reminded them during it about how it was to be enforced.

    I can't believe I took the bait.
     
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  20. umeweall

    umeweall Bronze

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    I agree that people need to 'get over it' and move forward.
     

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