SuperNatural
SILVER ELITE
How good would U.S. be if they could just get the kids who can play?
#youthsoccerdevelopment #youthsoccerpayforplay
#youthsoccerdevelopment #youthsoccerpayforplay
Privileged vs. Full Funded Teams
- Thread starter SuperNatural
- Start date
"Privileged"?
SuperNatural
SILVER ELITE
Yes, for instance a team like say West Coast FC. The coach knew, heck WE all knew they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the championship but they went anyway.
http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53087&Gender=Boys&Age=14
http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=53087&Gender=Boys&Age=14
John McEnroe said the problem with US tennis is the privileged kids play the sport.
But club soccer here is a product of our soccer culture, not the problem. Funded teams suck too. We're just not a real soccer country.
Surfref
PREMIER
WCFC was 0-2-1 and the two loses were 2-0 and 3-2 and the tie (1-1) was against the team that won the tornament. They tied the tornament winner which would tell me they did have a chance to win it all. Not sure what your gripe is with the WCFC team.
younothat
PREMIER
Youth "club" soccer is mostly a suburban sport for families that can afford to pay the fees, transport there kids to practice, far away games, and pay for all the stuff in between and as a result like trainers.
Some will same american youth soccer has a diversity problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football
"We used to say to ourselves: ‘How good would we be if we could just get the kids in the cities,’” one former US official says.
And yet a quarter of a century into soccer’s American boom, that hasn’t happened. Coaches, organizers and advocates say interest is there, especially among immigrants from Mexico and Central and South America, where devotion to soccer runs generations in families. But finding those kids is hard. Money has only hardened the divide between rich and poor, leaving the game to thrive in wealthy communities, where the cost of organized soccer has become outrageous, pricing out those in lower income neighborhoods.
“I don’t think it’s systematic racism,” says Nick Lusson, the director of NorCal Premier Soccer Foundation an organization to grow soccer in California’s underserved communities. “It’s just a system that has been built with blinders to equality.”
However to Ray's point, throwing money at a problem won't necessarily change things., american soccer has culture problems also.
http://blog.3four3.com/2016/09/12/the-american-soccer-culture-problem/
Solve some of the culture problems, like the casual mentality and then the sponsorship, best move on models has a better chance in the US for youth and pro soccer.
"When something is casual, there are no stakes. When there are no stakes, nobody gets too heated over things" the causal mentality is where we are in the US.
Some will same american youth soccer has a diversity problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football
"We used to say to ourselves: ‘How good would we be if we could just get the kids in the cities,’” one former US official says.
And yet a quarter of a century into soccer’s American boom, that hasn’t happened. Coaches, organizers and advocates say interest is there, especially among immigrants from Mexico and Central and South America, where devotion to soccer runs generations in families. But finding those kids is hard. Money has only hardened the divide between rich and poor, leaving the game to thrive in wealthy communities, where the cost of organized soccer has become outrageous, pricing out those in lower income neighborhoods.
“I don’t think it’s systematic racism,” says Nick Lusson, the director of NorCal Premier Soccer Foundation an organization to grow soccer in California’s underserved communities. “It’s just a system that has been built with blinders to equality.”
However to Ray's point, throwing money at a problem won't necessarily change things., american soccer has culture problems also.
http://blog.3four3.com/2016/09/12/the-american-soccer-culture-problem/
Solve some of the culture problems, like the casual mentality and then the sponsorship, best move on models has a better chance in the US for youth and pro soccer.
"When something is casual, there are no stakes. When there are no stakes, nobody gets too heated over things" the causal mentality is where we are in the US.
Buddhabman
SILVER ELITE
Pay to play in soccer is limiting opportunities for some kids. Hopefully all of the most talented kids with needs could get directed to funded teams. Unfortunately that's not the case for some. There are lots of talented kids playing for Pay to Play or"Privilleged", but for some kids their parents sacrifice and struggle to pay. Sometimes the team can help other cases not so much. Hopefully there is way to lower the overall costs of entry to the top level of training and competition.
I am not sure if Full Funded or Privileged is the determinant on how successful players will be. How good could our kids get if we had more consistent field space, and coaching. Orange County, SD tend to have the stronger teams. They also have many more field resources. More places to play equals more opportunity to play. The clubs able to secure field space and good coaching are going to become successful clubs and produce better players. The coaching and training plans differ from squad to squad, but their needs to be a base level of training given to every Flight 1 kid on a weekly basis. Some teams are scrimmage only, some have skills training and scrimmages, some have conditioning, skills and scrimmaging and a few select teams have all of the above plus specific plays or set piece training and multiple days. The other issue sis how much time do kids get training on their specific position. On top level club, in other sports like baseball, football, basketball, track teams there are specific coaches for positions. That would help our soccer kids alot I bet.
I am not sure if Full Funded or Privileged is the determinant on how successful players will be. How good could our kids get if we had more consistent field space, and coaching. Orange County, SD tend to have the stronger teams. They also have many more field resources. More places to play equals more opportunity to play. The clubs able to secure field space and good coaching are going to become successful clubs and produce better players. The coaching and training plans differ from squad to squad, but their needs to be a base level of training given to every Flight 1 kid on a weekly basis. Some teams are scrimmage only, some have skills training and scrimmages, some have conditioning, skills and scrimmaging and a few select teams have all of the above plus specific plays or set piece training and multiple days. The other issue sis how much time do kids get training on their specific position. On top level club, in other sports like baseball, football, basketball, track teams there are specific coaches for positions. That would help our soccer kids alot I bet.
Buddhabman
SILVER ELITE
LAUFA and to and extent TFA are good examples of clubs with a paid segment and full funded component and good coaching and have seemed to secure decent field space and have produced good players.
Buddhabman
SILVER ELITE
Soccer is still considered soft. Our coaches aren't demanding. We don't have enough fitness standards, minimum skill standards for Flight 1 level American players. We still at this level at this age group have kids on good teams that can't take a decent off foot shot or pass. Our kids play soft too, part of it I think is reaction to watching Europe and South American players flop and then gain advantage either with Pens or free kicks. Some of that is Reffing. You can watch how are best defenders react so cautiously when defending. Also though everyone bitches if their squad plays a big physical team, a team that tugs, holds, bashes a bit. Kids who are learning how to defend at this level are routinely punished for using size leverage to move people off the ball. Now are kids need to be ready to play pretty soccer and ugly soccer. Shoulder bashing, tugging holding is not the best football I agree, it's not substitute for strong footwork, quickness reaction and position. Now this doesn't mean we need to have just big bruisers playing, we need kids with good foot skills, smaller kids, that are quick and tough. But are kids need to be fighting through challenges, working on their balance and hopping over slide tackles, slapping away arms. Getting tougher.
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
This is a topic for the ages. What if Lebron, Kobe, Brady, and other top stars would have played soccer. Well, that's a big what if. The fact is that in countries like Colombia, Ecuador, Nigeria, etc, kids dont have too many options that will pay them well outside of Soccer.
American Kids can pick from 5 different sports that pay much better than soccer. American Kids play soccer in elementary and middle school to move to the sports that are "cool" in high school according to our sports media and social influence.
American Kids can also forget sports altogether and become a top notch sales rep, well paid doctor, lawyer, and many other options.
With Soccer, we have a 1st world country problem and we have a situation where Soccer is not paying a minimum of $250k+ a year when you make it to the MLS.
Let's put it this way, with sports that are truly global in nature, the US does not always dominate even with all of the resources available here.
1. Basketball - Yes
2. Hockey - Maybe but Canadians and Russians also do really well.
3. Baseball - Maybe
4. Tennis - No
5. Golf - No
Personally I think that MLS needs to pay $250k a minimum to really get the interest of the inner city kids and others.
American Kids can pick from 5 different sports that pay much better than soccer. American Kids play soccer in elementary and middle school to move to the sports that are "cool" in high school according to our sports media and social influence.
American Kids can also forget sports altogether and become a top notch sales rep, well paid doctor, lawyer, and many other options.
With Soccer, we have a 1st world country problem and we have a situation where Soccer is not paying a minimum of $250k+ a year when you make it to the MLS.
Let's put it this way, with sports that are truly global in nature, the US does not always dominate even with all of the resources available here.
1. Basketball - Yes
2. Hockey - Maybe but Canadians and Russians also do really well.
3. Baseball - Maybe
4. Tennis - No
5. Golf - No
Personally I think that MLS needs to pay $250k a minimum to really get the interest of the inner city kids and others.
futboldad1
PREMIER
With all due respect, that's a huge misconception. There's no big what if about this. They might be have been top GKs, that's likely it. Look at the best players in the world, Busquets, Neymar, Iniesta, Messi etc. It's not about the athletes, it's about soccer players.
The south american countries you listed have a futbol culture. This lack of a culture, plus pay to play at youth level combined with a closed system (MLS) with no promotion/relegation are the barriers to the US competing on the global stage.
SuperNatural
SILVER ELITE
The Casual Mentality in full effect!
With the amount of fraud that goes on in the reduced lunch program, this will never work. The threshold to qualify for reduced lunch is $45k for a family of 4 or $52k for a family of 5. For the sake of simplicity let just say the average 2 kid 2 parent family household income need to be below $50k to qualify.
Because I had too much time on my hands today...
Looking at California Education numbers from 2015 for LA County, it shows that 66.5% of all students were in the reduced lunch program. According to US census numbers for that same year, 40.8% of families made $50k or less in the county. There were 1,539,675 students enrolled in LA county schools. 1,023,956 enrolled in the reduced lunch program. Per the census numbers you would expect the number to be roughly around 628,000. The numbers aren't perfect cause we're dealing with percentages, but that's a massive difference of 400,000. Just sayin'
Back on topic...
It really does come down to money. Last year, US soccer spent $21 million on Youth National Teams and Player Development.
https://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/fi...ation-2016-audited-financials-final.pdf?la=en
According to a 2014 story in Reuters, Germany spends more than $80 million. More than $1 billion since 2000.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/soccer-world-ger-success-idUKL6N0PP3D220140714
Additionally, playing soccer in Germany cost practically nothing. It would seem its almost entirely subsidized.
http://www.dfb.de/en/news/detail/amateurs-football-is-there-for-everyone-113804/
I just don't see that level of investment happening here, because the truth is, soccer isn't that important.
Sheriff Joe
DA
Why?
Sheriff Joe
DA
I wonder how many of those are Illegal?
The USA has immigrants from Germany, Italy, Brazil (everywhere I go a new Brazilian jiu-jitsu dojo pops up) and Argentina, the big 4 soccer nations, in big numbers, but they come here and they can't pass on the skill or soccer culture. I really think only the Mexicans have done that successfully (pass on their soccer culture), which is why there are so many fantastic Mexican players on the top teams.
There's so many reasons America can't produce top players. If we compare the way we do things to S. America, it's a numbers game plus the culture. When I say culture, I'm referring to the numerous pro and semi-pro teams prevalent in S America and Europe, plus all the ex-players and qualified coaches that are present, plus all the games they watch and play because it's the number 1 sport.
There are kids in Brazilian favela playing 4-6 hrs per day and not really going to school. It probably sucks overall for those kids, but it's a hell of a great way to train and identify hungry talent.
There's so many reasons America can't produce top players. If we compare the way we do things to S. America, it's a numbers game plus the culture. When I say culture, I'm referring to the numerous pro and semi-pro teams prevalent in S America and Europe, plus all the ex-players and qualified coaches that are present, plus all the games they watch and play because it's the number 1 sport.
There are kids in Brazilian favela playing 4-6 hrs per day and not really going to school. It probably sucks overall for those kids, but it's a hell of a great way to train and identify hungry talent.