YouthSoccer Rankings Back Online
- Thread starter Coach_JimmyZ
- Start date
Don't get to wrapped up in the actual rankings. There are limited number of data points and YSR is nation wide so there are not going to be adjustments for strength of schedule. Over time as more teams play each other and those data points are introduced into the system, outliers will fall back to the mean. Over the years YSR has been a much more accurate predictor of team strength than GS. If I'm scouting future opponents I always look at YSR to get a sense of their strength. GS is rarely helpful.
Wez
DA
I get that. It's the fact that most of the B04 flt 1 teams finished below 3 flt 2 teams. I'm guessing many of the top ranked B04 flt 1 teams would be more than a match for the 3 flt 2 teams that outrank them.
This sounds reasonable, thank you.
madcow
SILVER ELITE
Are you saying some GS tournaments are awarded insane amounts of points even if it has bad teams competing? Or are you saying that some bad teams are ranked so high, the tournaments that include these bad teams are unfairly awarded more points?
Some tournaments are worth a ton of points whether they have a great group of teams competing or a so-so group. Other tournaments are worth a ton and have commensurate competition.
soccerobserver
GOLD
WEZ, as Apmull said, the YS rankings will get better as time passes and more data points become available...the great thing about YSR being back online is that you will then have an objective third party ranking of the teams to support or your contentions about the proper placement of teams across the tiers in your age group...
The great thing about these sites and ones like MaxPrep for HS football is their unbiased attempt. Over time their ranks are WAY more accurate than a GS site that only allots points to their own tournaments.
They also take into account the whole of soccer not just tournaments where guests etc have a huge impact on results.
madcow
SILVER ELITE
The point value is based on the ranking of the teams registered. GS uses the 5 highest ranked teams in each flight. Each team in the top 1% of the age group is worth 10,000 points. So, most GS tournaments will accept at least 5 from the top 1%. That gives their flight a value of 10,000 points. You have enough age groups worth 10,000 points and your tournament becomes an elite tournament (for whatever that is worth). Tournaments like Surf cup who in the past only accepted a certain # of teams, could have the top flight worth 10K and the 2nd flight worth 8,500 (or something like that).
Its a bit of a flawed system as a team from an area where there are a lot of GS tournaments (Nor Cal and the midwest) can get a boost from being higher ranked (merely by playing a bunch of tournaments). ECNL teams don't play a lot of tournaments, so would be ranked lower than other teams. Once the DA starts for the girls, you will see a large segment of really good girls teams drop in the ranking as they simply won't have the time to do any/ a lot of tournaments. Will they still get into the top tournaments if they apply? Yep. Based on history, reputation of the league and of course... politics. But some good teams will get left out in the cold.
Thanks for the breakdown of GS scoring. I've still always found YSR to be a better overall gauge of actual level. (When a team has enough data points.) Like any statistical model it breaks down when a team hasn't played enough opponents. So it maybe wildly out of whack for a while.
I find it very useful because it shows league games and most tournaments and I can see who played who ,the date and the score and do my own comparisons based on what I might personally know about the teams . And by clicking on an opponent of any team I'm looking at I can see their record . There is no other site that gives so much information and so many teams .
Multi Sport
DA
thedudeabides
SILVER
I really despise gotsoccer for many reasons. First and foremost, their rankings are a joke. Yes many teams are ranked correctly but when they are off, they are off by a lot. I could provide numerous examples of teams that are off by more than 50 to 100 slots. If a team doesn't play in gotsoccer events but is beating highly ranked teams in league games, they won't go up much in the rankings. Another problem is that a team can go win a tourney in flight 2 or 3 against not such great teams and if it is a gotsoccer event, rake in tons of points that stick for a year. They do this on purpose because if they couldn't entice teams with an insane amount of points people wouldn't go to those events. They are essentially bullying teams to go to their events in order to protect their rankings. I have been following Youth Soccer Rankings USA for a few years and have tested out the methods on hundreds of games and their system works very well. Like any ranking system, there are flaws but this is by far the most accurate out there. Almost all games are counted and teams that underperform in wins or outperform expectations in losses see those adjustments, down and up respectively, with every single game. It is a far superior system than gotsoccer.
TangoCity
GOLD
How long would you suggest they stay on the site?
One year makes sense to me, but I would propose a system where they weighted the more recent games heavier than the later ones. Obviously, personnel changes - especially once tryouts begin and the weighting could help ease the error.
soccerobserver
GOLD
1217, over time I noticed that the YSR is much smoother and not as volatile as GS. Teams are on a treadmill with GS. They have to constantly play GS tournaments and win(!) to replace what is falling off of the 12 month moving window.
For example, I have seen a team use guest players to kill the competition in a summer tournament and as a result their ranking zooms up...then next summer they don't play or they don't have the guest so they don't do as well...as a result the points from the previous summer roll off and there is nothing to replace those points so the team ranking plummets...yet another reason why YSR is better in my opinion...
stork71
BRONZE
Why not just email the admin of the site and ask?
TangoCity
GOLD
They really should make the process completely open source unless they are using it as a money making endeavor.
Come watch us play this weekend
thedudeabides
SILVER
If my memory serves me correctly, it is 18 months. While that seems like a long time, it isn't when you consider the statistical methodology used for YS. With GS, you can play in a flight 2 tournament against low ranked teams, get awarded an insane amount of points and coast for an entire year. It is a reward only system. That team can literally lose every game after that for an entire year and maintain their ranking. YS adjusts up and down every single game while GS ignores losses. GS is deeply flawed but until tournaments quit letting them hold them hostage, their monopoly will continue.