I presume you're talking about the girls side re: dual national players training here. I think that has more to do with what @kickingandscreaming brought up about the US being amenable to girls soccer earlier on than other countries. You will see more and more women wanting to play for the girls sides in EPL and La Liga, especially when it becomes clear that coaching in the US is inferior. Like I said, give it 10 years and the USWNT will be struggling (of course, unless something changes here).
Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
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I presume you're talking about the girls side re: dual national players training here. I think that has more to do with what @kickingandscreaming brought up about the US being amenable to girls soccer earlier on than other countries. You will see more and more women wanting to play for the girls sides in EPL and La Liga, especially when it becomes clear that coaching in the US is inferior. Like I said, give it 10 years and the USWNT will be struggling (of course, unless something changes here).
VegasParent
SILVER ELITE
Agree 100%. I have seen this play out more and more over the last few years with my kid. At the GA showcase last month 2 of the teams her team played relied of being overly physical and playing direct. The refs called a tight game so the overly physical play worked against them and in my opinion that style of play will work against those players in the future.
Generally teams that blow up the Silver level rely on being overly physical and playing direct.
Those same teams get worked when they jump up to Gold level + get beat by possession teams often with smaller players.
Seen it happen multiple times. Parents that are new to soccer see the results of being overly physical + get crazy on the sidelines. Give those same parents a couple of seasons of playing against possession teams at he Gold level and you'll notice that they're quiet + just focused on the game at hand. Unfortunately you can't explain this to parents they just have to live through it to understand.
As you pointed out, that depends on referees who are not afraid to call a good game
VegasParent
SILVER ELITE
Good point.
GoldenGate
GOLD
IKR. The American "pay to play" system has been a disaster of monumental proportions for the women's side. One need only look at the USWNT's complete lack of success at the last two WCs, which is inexcusable. We really need to overhaul our youth system to be more like the countries like Spain, France and Netherlands that have done so well internationally. In fact, I've been saying this since way back when we should have been doing what Japan was doing, and China before that, and Brazil before that. It is just sickening that we Americans need to pay money for our little girls to get the highest level kiddie soccer training from the best coaches. Instead of spending on education, or healthcare, or even basketball and softball, our government really needs to be spending billions on kiddie soccer coaches to make sure every girl in America can become the best soccer player they can be. Soccer is just that important, especially if we call it "futbol".
You realize you're on a soccer forum, right?
That was his point. We seem to hear this argument every 8 years…inevitably we may end up in 5th in the World then rise again.
Hope you are all watching the game and getting those viewership numbers up.
I think this go around we'll not fare as well. We don't seem to look as strong. Although some key players are missing, Ertz, Dunn....... But we shall see!
I mean watch this:
This randomly came up in my youtube feed. Aren't these supposed to be two of the stronger girls clubs? I didn't watch the whole game, but some of what I watched resembled rugby more than soccer. The decision making wasn't great and the ball was bouncing all over the place. It just feels like everyone is panicking out there. There really is no method to the madness here. These are 14 year olds, but I've seen the exact same thing at the collegiate level. Unsurprisingly, the girls that appeared to play reasonably well were the smaller and more technical players.
I think my main point here is I think we're doing a disservice to the girl's side and it will eventually show at the USWNT level as the bigger/faster/stronger mindset will not work against European teams where decision making (e.g., playing with your brain) is emphasized. This happens on the boys side too, obviously. The difference is we already see how that plays out internationally. The only reason the USMNT team is getting better is because a significant portion of those players play overseas.
I just wish we could deemphasize "win-now" and focus on development. That would, of course, require coaches, players and parents to adjust their lenses significantly.
This randomly came up in my youtube feed. Aren't these supposed to be two of the stronger girls clubs? I didn't watch the whole game, but some of what I watched resembled rugby more than soccer. The decision making wasn't great and the ball was bouncing all over the place. It just feels like everyone is panicking out there. There really is no method to the madness here. These are 14 year olds, but I've seen the exact same thing at the collegiate level. Unsurprisingly, the girls that appeared to play reasonably well were the smaller and more technical players.
I think my main point here is I think we're doing a disservice to the girl's side and it will eventually show at the USWNT level as the bigger/faster/stronger mindset will not work against European teams where decision making (e.g., playing with your brain) is emphasized. This happens on the boys side too, obviously. The difference is we already see how that plays out internationally. The only reason the USMNT team is getting better is because a significant portion of those players play overseas.
I just wish we could deemphasize "win-now" and focus on development. That would, of course, require coaches, players and parents to adjust their lenses significantly.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
We seem to always talk about the demise of the UWNT, yet they somehow continue to be steady as she goes and bounce back. 3rd in the world every once in while isn't a bad thing. Good on the rest of the world for trying to catch up and are empowering their girls to play.
Sometimes it's easy to cry wolf (i'm guilty of it when it comes to girl soccer) but then get reminded of how good the top percentile is when the junior teams travel abroad and continue to win. Their records this year speak for themselves. is the world catching up? maybe....is it over the next 10 years? maybe. Should we all be watching and having fun..absolutely.
The game last night was touch and go - eventually the better team won , the team that pressured the final 3rd and created more opportunities. Did they close out the game well..nope. Are they younger than ever before...yep. Is Vlads style of play a bit different than what we are used to? Probably. Do we have athletes up front that are hard to defend? yep....do we have more of those in the pipeline...probably. Do we need to rethink our back line..likely.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
I 100% agree with most of what you are saying. Fortunately the USWNT (to include the juniors) is a collection of players from across the country and from different clubs. US Soccer has pick of the litter...the ECNL/GA best teams aren't competing on the world stage. The ECNL/GA game doesn't translate to what US soccer teaches on the field during ID events, regional camps, and team training camps. Our daugthers are 100% trainable and can make the adjustment from club play to national team play. They do it every year, transitioning from club to HS and then back again.
Our YNTs did great work recently traveling abroad - dominating at every age group. Our pipeline looks rather good for the next 10-15 years. Granted, they have to stick around, stay interested, healthy, etc. Our talent pool is much bigger than anywhere else in the world.
The downside of our system is some of what you describe above. Development isn't the best but patience doesn't make money for clubs. US Soccer sits back and cherry picks the best...
I think it's just a learning process for American parents / families that didn't grow up playing or watching soccer that much.
Wanting to win isn't a bad thing + you shouldn't expect losses just because teams are learning to play possession soccer.
What clubs could do to make things easier / more clear for parents is explain the skillsets that they're looking for in players during + before tryouts. As a parent it sucks when you see coaches skipping over skilled players in favor of the biggest ones or the ones that are big + aggressive to goal but have literally no foot skills or ability to pass. Every coach thinks they can teach players foot skills which may or not be true but by skipping over skilled players for size sets a precedent of what the club values.
Parents are just reacting to what the clubs are defining as value.
To a casual observer or disinterested soccer fan, this is probably not a problem. I know a lot of parents on the sideline that aren’t interested and don’t understand soccer. That’s fine. I rarely watch the same sports I grew up with. But, most of us have players somewhere in the pipeline, with dreams and goals, and we’re all invested personally and monetarily. Maybe a minority of us are frustrated and voice it: the corruption, literal pay to play, terrible and toxic coaching, fraud, favoritism, and the belief that while our players give 100%, the system is half-ass and underperforming. Some of us are also fans of the beautiful game. USWNT is not playing to my personal satisfaction. So what, if a country 10x the size of Canada and pouring billions more into youth soccer than the entire gdp of Haiti, can barrel it’s way to a 1-0 win! I guess these are first world problems anyway.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
I suppose it depends on which pipeline you are in. Youth sports can be categorized as many things...you can simultaneously say it's a scam and it's a great way to develop your fledgling citizen. Both can be true.
The will to win will drive corruption, pay to play, toxicity, fraud, favoritism. Happens on the dirt pitches and the turf pitches at all ages, organized or not organized --human nature.
Back to the idea that we are either falling behind or other countries are catching up..maybe...but again our youth teams continue to be the best in the world. We like to win and will continue to pour money into the funnel, whether that's your own money to get youd DD to play at the "next level" or someone else's money.
Night and day. That FCB team played lights out -- to criticize them for anything would be nitpicking. Everyone should watch this video. I would love to see the metrics from this game (possession, fouls, shots, etc). Even around the 25 minute of the video the announcers are talking exactly about what we are here.
Thanks for posting this @LASTMAN14. I'm going to use this going forward to show people exactly what I'm talking about.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
I don't disgree at all. It's two separate things....USWNT and club soccer. More thought is put into assessing and selecting talent for the national teams. Big+agressive isn't the #1 criteria for US soccer. Sophia Smith is 5'6", Caterina Macario is 5"5, Rose Lavelle is 5'4". Sure, there are some bigger players - Alana Cook, Lindsay Horan, etc...but there isn't a pattern so to speak. Other countries have big and small players. At this age it's more about skill than size. I don't think Rose Lavelle is intimidated by Alana Cook to NOT go one on one with her.
Club soccer provides the pipeline, certain universities further refine the pipeline...US soccer provides the guidance, tools, and routine tuning up.
It's a model that other countries would love to replicate but most can't.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
Spain has come a long way with their DD development/program.. Their national team is very fun to watch and very good. Thanks mostly to Barca. But I guess I don't know what this proves. The best (maybe) girls in the state of NJ lost to the best girls in Spain? Maybe there is a better team in Spain but highly unlikely.
This game turns out differently if playing the YNT in this age group.
For me it shows what we should be striving for and what is possible. My understanding is PDA is an incredibly strong club as well, I mean they made it to the finals in this tournament. La Liga on the woman's side has 16 clubs, surely they have 16 U16 academy teams as well? I suspect not all of the girls on that FCB team are from Spain, but I suspect most are. Spain has a population of 47 million. Why pit a U17 USWNT against them? What would that prove?
FCB here was clearly just a better coached team. PDA had no chance in this game. Possession was likely 70-80% FCB and I saw PDA get at least two yellow cards. You could see clear as day the decision making by the FCB players.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Relax, or before you know it you will find that you squandered the best years a parent could ever have with their daughter, just like crush.
Youth soccer is not rampant with toxic coaching, fraud, or corruption. It is, however, rampant with hardworking and underpaid people doing the best they can with limited resources to help kids. Also, "favoritism" is easily avoidable if your daughter is any good and you aren't an a**hole like crush who burned every bridge imaginable. But also understand that "favoritism" is an appropriate right for those who actually step up to the plate to do the work, compared to people like you who just throw tantrums that you can't get everything you want without having to pay for what things cost.
Speaking of that, enough with this "pay to play" nonsense. You live in the only country on this planet where girls youth soccer is accessible at every conceivable level and price point. If you don't want to pay for soccer, feel free to play school soccer that does not exist in other countries, or find pickup games in the park, or futsal at the church or YMCA, or play AYSO or any of the other million inexpensive club options. When people like you complain incessantly about "pay to play", what you are really complaining about is that Pep Guardiola won't coach your little princess for free.
As for the "beautiful game", it is time you learned that winning soccer on the women's side is not beautiful, at least not what you think is beautiful. The WNT has always excelled due to superior athleticism, strength and speed. With the one feel good exception of Japan getting insanely lucky once, no team has ever won the WC playing what you call "pretty soccer". Effective soccer on the women's side requires a lot of direct play and overwhelming physicality, and that is how it is. Maybe you think doily soccer is pretty, but people who know what they're talking about understand that sledgehammers are far prettier and useful.