Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

[kickingandscreaming]

Mexico's women may not qualify for the World Cup. If they lose or tie against the US, they are out. Even if they beat the US, if Haiti and Jamaica tie, Mexico will finish 4th in the group and not qualify. Not having scored a goal against Jamaica and Haiti also doesn't set them up well for a tiebreaker. I can't find the tiebreaker but if it's head-to-head, they are out already. They lost to the only two teams they could tie for 3rd to qualify for the intercontinental playoff.

 

[algomez619]

Total failure from Mexico. The coach decided to shuffle players around out of their natural positions and leave out better players from the roster such as Karina Rodriguez (center back @ Washington Spirit). Adding to their woes, Jamaica and Haiti have grown tremendously which I think is good for CONCACAF. It will take a miracle on Monday vs USA but I don't see it happening. Overall, Mexico is in a funk with their boys U20 not qualifying for the WC either and their men's National team playing like crap. I hope they closely analyze their entire federation and figure it out.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Total failure from Mexico. The coach decided to shuffle players around out of their natural positions and leave out better players from the roster such as Karina Rodriguez (center back @ Washington Spirit). Adding to their woes, Jamaica and Haiti have grown tremendously which I think is good for CONCACAF. It will take a miracle on Monday vs USA but I don't see it happening. Overall, Mexico is in a funk with their boys U20 not qualifying for the WC either and their men's National team playing like crap. I hope they closely analyze their entire federation and figure it out.

Do you believe the shuffling was motivated by the desired style of play that the coach favors? I didn't see either of their losses but would be interested in the xG for each game. They certainly dominated possession. Just wondering if they were a bit unlucky in the finishing. Of course, giving up 3 goals as they did against Haiti is never a recipe for a win.

 

[paytoplay]

I’ve been watching USWNT in this tournament. Not impressed with the up and coming younger players and not impressed with this coach or style of play. As norcaldad said in another thread, other countries programs, especially Europe, once they get going are going to pass us by. Squeaking out wins against this lowly concacaf competition is one thing. I know these youngsters are getting the bulk of playing time, still I wonder is this the best we can do? Richest and most populous soccer country ever with our entrenched and vaunted pay to play development system?! Chickens are going to come home to roost.

 

[Carlsbad7]

We just did a camp with Benfica (Portuguese pro team) + they just started running pro womens teams. The coaches all love that women are getting a chance to play high level soccer.

The USWNT are going to start have a hard time keeping up once the pro teams go all on womens.

 

[NorCalDad]

I’ve been watching USWNT in this tournament. Not impressed with the up and coming younger players and not impressed with this coach or style of play. As norcaldad said in another thread, other countries programs, especially Europe, once they get going are going to pass us by. Squeaking out wins against this lowly concacaf competition is one thing. I know these youngsters are getting the bulk of playing time, still I wonder is this the best we can do? Richest and most populous soccer country ever with our entrenched and vaunted pay to play development system?! Chickens are going to come home to roost.

I think the women's side is going to suffer the same things the mens side does at some point. Our system is just inherently broken. I think it's a combination of:

- We don't have enough coaches that teach futbol as opposed to soccer.
- Parents don't understand what good futbol is and thus don't demand it.
- We really don't have a futbol culture in the US and multisport is out of control (e.g., travel baseball, travel basketball, etc...all with the same kid)
-"win-now" trumps development. ECNL/GA starts way too early -- which derides development.
- Coaches, as a result of "win-now" identify talent differently than they would in Europe -- bigger, faster, stronger is the mantra and we're in a spin cycle with that.

Just go watch any ECNL girl's match on youtube and you will see it clear as day. I've seen a very small handful on both the boys and girls side that are well coached. Even if a coach is good they're going to succumb to the need to focus on "win-now", otherwise they might lose their job.

There are a ton of great coaches on the Twittersphere that look like they're trying to promote the right ideas, but it's just not ubiquitous. Oddly enough I think the CTE/concussion concerns are directly related to all of this. Watch a girls game and you see players running through each other -- it's not just a header problem.

I don't know how to fix this problem. Would love to hear thoughts from coaches on this forum.

 

[crush]

I don't know how to fix this problem. Would love to hear thoughts from coaches on this forum.

I know how to fix it but I'm not a coach. That's part of the problem. These top guys make $$$ telling all females that play soccer that they are Elite players no matter what because their in the Elite league and dad says so. It's not true. We need Promotion and Relegation asap. California needs to set up a League like EPL asap. Travel soccer is stupid and expensive and their is only on reason why. I bet you $1 people would flock here to play.

 

[LASTMAN14]

I have

I think the women's side is going to suffer the same things the mens side does at some point. Our system is just inherently broken. I think it's a combination of:

- We don't have enough coaches that teach futbol as opposed to soccer.
- Parents don't understand what good futbol is and thus don't demand it.
- We really don't have a futbol culture in the US and multisport is out of control (e.g., travel baseball, travel basketball, etc...all with the same kid)
-"win-now" trumps development. ECNL/GA starts way too early -- which derides development.
- Coaches, as a result of "win-now" identify talent differently than they would in Europe -- bigger, faster, stronger is the mantra and we're in a spin cycle with that.

Just go watch any ECNL girl's match on youtube and you will see it clear as day. I've seen a very small handful on both the boys and girls side that are well coached. Even if a coach is good they're going to succumb to the need to focus on "win-now", otherwise they might lose their job.

There are a ton of great coaches on the Twittersphere that look like they're trying to promote the right ideas, but it's just not ubiquitous. Oddly enough I think the CTE/concussion concerns are directly related to all of this. Watch a girls game and you see players running through each other -- it's not just a header problem.

I don't know how to fix this problem. Would love to hear thoughts from coaches on this forum.

Good points that have been brought up over the last 10 years I’ve been on here, especially with the DA vs ECNL debate. I have my opinions on this matter, but I am on vacation. Will backtrack later.

 

[Brav520]

Women will be fine

If the expectation is that the US will the undisputed #1 team in the world , then yeah I think people will be disappointed

We will be one of the very few faves of every Olympic and World Cup we play in ( think similar to Brazil men) I don’t see that changing any time soon

Think about whatever birth year your daughter is playing in . We can always identify the 5-10 truly special players , realistically 1 of those girls will be a consistent national team player , and that 1 girl is a truly special player , a unicorn so to speak

 

[crush]

Women will be fine

If the expectation is that the US will the undisputed #1 team in the world , then yeah I think people will be disappointed

We will be one of the very few faves of every Olympic and World Cup we play in ( think similar to Brazil men) I don’t see that changing any time soon

Think about whatever birth year your daughter is playing in . We can always identify the 5-10 truly special players , realistically 1 of those girls will be a consistent national team player , and that 1 girl is a truly special player , a unicorn so to speak

Always will have 5-10 truly special players who submit to their way of life and pay to play with their rules of entry. If winning is all that matters, we will always be in contention. However, a high % of females are locked out because of many reasons and I think we know what it takes to bow at the alter of those who mandate the rules.

 

[NorCalDad]

Women will be fine

If the expectation is that the US will the undisputed #1 team in the world , then yeah I think people will be disappointed

We will be one of the very few faves of every Olympic and World Cup we play in ( think similar to Brazil men) I don’t see that changing any time soon

Think about whatever birth year your daughter is playing in . We can always identify the 5-10 truly special players , realistically 1 of those girls will be a consistent national team player , and that 1 girl is a truly special player , a unicorn so to speak

I have a bleaker outlook. I think the women's side will drop to the same level as men's side in about 10 years. I mean still one of the top 15 FIFA teams. But I think you will also see the European women's leagues surpass NWSL, as all top players will head there. I think issue has less to do with the individual player and more to do with the style of play. Most girls in the US aren't getting proper instruction in that regard (a few are for sure). The one thing I don't have insight into is what soccer culture is like for girls in Europe. Are girls going outside and playing pickup? Is it part of their lives apart from training/games? That culture part is ALWAYS something the US will struggle with for both men and women.

 

[crush]

I have a bleaker outlook. I think the women's side will drop to the same level as men's side in about 10 years. I mean still one of the top 15 FIFA teams. But I think you will also see the European women's leagues surpass NWSL, as all top players will head there. I think issue has less to do with the individual player and more to do with the style of play. Most girls in the US aren't getting proper instruction in that regard (a few are for sure). The one thing I don't have insight into is what soccer culture is like for girls in Europe. Are girls going outside and playing pickup? Is it part of their lives apart from training/games? That culture part is ALWAYS something the US will struggle with for both men and women.

Looks like my dd is the first one to test the waters over the seas. If things pan out well for her, I will 100% share the good news. I told her 100% for whatever reason, she can home, no questions asked. I would advise all dads on here to give your dd the same option if they don't like college soccer. I know one dad told his dd she" better finish what she started because we don't quit in our family." No quit in winning, right? Horrible advice but to each his own.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

We just did a camp with Benfica (Portuguese pro team) + they just started running pro womens teams. The coaches all love that women are getting a chance to play high level soccer.

The USWNT are going to start have a hard time keeping up once the pro teams go all on womens.

It was more or less inevitable, right? Historically, the US Women's team's primary advantage has been relatively high cultural support for girls playing - at all. More and more countries now match that level of support. As this advantage wanes, training will matter more. I'd also say the women's side has always suffered the same thing, or worse, than the men's side in terms of training. In our experience, we had multiple excellent coaches move to the boys side for better opportunities.

 

[Carlsbad7]

It was more or less inevitable, right? Historically, the US Women's team's primary advantage has been relatively high cultural support for girls playing - at all. More and more countries now match that level of support. As this advantage wanes, training will matter more. I'd also say the women's side has always suffered the same thing, or worse, than the men's side in terms of training. In our experience, we had multiple excellent coaches move to the boys side for better opportunities.

That's what I see as well + it's already happening on the mens side. (MLS Next + Pro Youth teams) Soon soccer for both men and women will be like baseball or hockey with minor leagues that feed into pro teams.

College soccer just cant compete with pro teams and pool players that focus on playing a sport 24/7 + nothing else.

Where things will get interesting is when colleges start paying players vs giving scholarships. When this happens wheres the line between collegiate and pro?

 

[kickingandscreaming]

- We really don't have a futbol culture in the US

I think this drives most of the other things we discuss that keeps the US from reaching its potential at the National Team level.

I'd be interested how often many high level girls go out and play small sided games at the park with other high quality players and how many opportunities there are to do this. Anecdotally, pickup games I've seen in my area are driven primarily by Hispanic and European men. The number of girls I see out there are few and far between. Regardless of how good the girls' training is, they need more touches on the ball in an unstructured environment. They need to play with players that are better than them and not as good as they are without a coach or parent around.

I have an impression (not backed up by any research I did) that women's soccer is underrepresented in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods compared to men's soccer and compared to women's basketball. If so, this is a missed opportunity to develop elite players.

 

[Yak]

We will be one of the very few faves of every Olympic and World Cup we play in ( think similar to Brazil men) I don’t see that changing any time soon

Brazil hasn't won a World Cup in 20 years.

 

[Brav520]

Brazil hasn't won a World Cup in 20 years.

Yes , clearly a sign of a declining nation in terms of football

 

[paytoplay]

I think this drives most of the other things we discuss that keeps the US from reaching its potential at the National Team level.

I'd be interested how often many high level girls go out and play small sided games at the park with other high quality players and how many opportunities there are to do this. Anecdotally, pickup games I've seen in my area are driven primarily by Hispanic and European men. The number of girls I see out there are few and far between. Regardless of how good the girls' training is, they need more touches on the ball in an unstructured environment. They need to play with players that are better than them and not as good as they are without a coach or parent around.

I have an impression (not backed up by any research I did) that women's soccer is underrepresented in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods compared to men's soccer and compared to women's basketball. If so, this is a missed opportunity to develop elite players.

Agree. No soccer culture inevitably leads to the pay to play system, like a predator swooping down on it’s prey. We’re throwing money and raw numbers into it and what comes out is going to leave us below potential, only merely competitive because we have numbers. Because it’s pay to play, we’re going to mine mostly the upper middle classes, leaving untapped millions who can’t get rides to club practices, can’t pay admission, can’t travel across town or across the country. I saw this in my town, in rec through club. Classmates from the poorer areas, weren’t paying to play youth sports. Club mates, however, the parents could afford to pay admission and just as importantly could be available to take the kid to practice. Go look at all the nice expensive cars in the parking lot at a typical club practice. Tells the story.

 

[NorCalDad]

Agree. No soccer culture inevitably leads to the pay to play system, like a predator swooping down on it’s prey. We’re throwing money and raw numbers into it and what comes out is going to leave us below potential, only merely competitive because we have numbers. Because it’s pay to play, we’re going to mine mostly the upper middle classes, leaving untapped millions who can’t get rides to club practices, can’t pay admission, can’t travel across town or across the country. I saw this in my town, in rec through club. Classmates from the poorer areas, weren’t paying to play youth sports. Club mates, however, the parents could afford to pay admission and just as importantly could be available to take the kid to practice. Go look at all the nice expensive cars in the parking lot at a typical club practice. Tells the story.

This begs the question, can a soccer culture be created? To be fair all sports in the US are essentially pay to play. The club baseball orgs are even worse than soccer. We're seeing a parallel there with players from Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Central America where surely it's more organic. I personally think parents have gone nuts with multisport. There's this whole angst around specializing too early, which I think is a bunch of hogwash. My kids are multisport, they're just not multisport-club players. They do all kinds of camps and play all kinds of sports at school, but their focus is soccer (I'd be totally fine if they wanted to focus on a different sport). It also doesn't help that parents these days (myself included) are much more helicopter-like. But that's directly correlated with the fact that kids would literally just hang out and eff around on TikTok if left to their own devices (something much more rampant with girls from my view).

I do think the mens world cup will spark some interest....whenever the SF Giants do well youth baseball booms in the bay area.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Agree. No soccer culture inevitably leads to the pay to play system, like a predator swooping down on it’s prey. We’re throwing money and raw numbers into it and what comes out is going to leave us below potential, only merely competitive because we have numbers. Because it’s pay to play, we’re going to mine mostly the upper middle classes, leaving untapped millions who can’t get rides to club practices, can’t pay admission, can’t travel across town or across the country. I saw this in my town, in rec through club. Classmates from the poorer areas, weren’t paying to play youth sports. Club mates, however, the parents could afford to pay admission and just as importantly could be available to take the kid to practice. Go look at all the nice expensive cars in the parking lot at a typical club practice. Tells the story.

This begs the question, can a soccer culture be created? To be fair all sports in the US are essentially pay to play. The club baseball orgs are even worse than soccer. We're seeing a parallel there with players from Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Central America where surely it's more organic.

Culture continuously evolves. However, I don't see a fast path to an organic soccer culture in the US. Based on my upbringing and my daughters, my impressions are that childhoods are much more structured now. Fewer free-range kids run around the neighborhoods and organize games among themselves. This feeds into the pay-to-play system. Of course, it wasn't like we played much soccer when I was younger, but it is the easiest game to organize with the fewest resources - just something that can be used as a ball. It's a sport made to be organic.