American soccer clubs don't want to make it like football. They want to make it into (have made it into) a bastardized version of a international development "system" while selling to hundreds of thousands of parents that their kid is on the "pathway" to the pros, or at least a D1 scholarship...when like Yak says, maybe 0-3 from an MLS Academy team may actually have a chance.
Who controls US Soccer ?
- Thread starter Brav520
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I'm sure its the Taylor Swift and Joe Biden conspiracy
If JoeTato Briben gets that railroad built across the Pacific Ocean, all the west coast teams can just choo-choo to Angola and MLS can do some real expansion. That said, he clearly doesn't know where Angola is and that high speed trains can't swim.
Who controls American soccer? MLS-U.S. Open Cup saga reveals shifting power dynamics
The mid-December rebellion that rattled American soccer was something of an existential moment for the federation.sports.yahoo.com
Is it no longer Sunil Illuminati?
Code
GOLD
Free Market system (MLS) dominating in U.S.. Who could have guessed
. If we want soccer to become big in the US like Football and Basketball, then US Soccer needs to get out of the way of MLS. America dosen't need to mirror the European soccer model; they should follow the NFL/NBA model.
. If we want soccer to become big in the US like Football and Basketball, then US Soccer needs to get out of the way of MLS. America dosen't need to mirror the European soccer model; they should follow the NFL/NBA model.Both the NFL and NBA depend on college to develop talent. Soccer doesn't work this way because it's an international game and outside of America nearly everyone implements the Academy model. What this means is MLS can bring on higher quality talent by shopping globally vs bringing on from college via a draft.Free Market system (MLS) dominating in U.S.. Who could have guessed
MLB with its minor league system is the closest to what MLS has implemented with MLS Next. Personally I think MLS Next is better because it's like Minor Leage Baseball but youth clubs also participate.
The European soccer model is far more free-market than any of the US sports models. In Europe, anyone can form or buy a team and spend as much money as they want developing it, moving all the way to the top if they do it well. The US sports leagues, including MLS, are monopolies that use their position to bar entry to competitors and institute communist practices internally (revenue sharing, salary caps, the draft with exclusive contracts before free agency...).Free Market system (MLS) dominating in U.S.. Who could have guessed
The US works differently than other parts of the world. We aren't going to build a soccer culture without growing the sport in high school and college because kids and parents are going to watch high school/college football and basketball games, not MLS next or ECNL soccer games. It's inconvenient and it doesn't have their local soccer stars. Have you seen the crowds at DIII high school football games, where the home team has a losing record? It's a full stadium. Kids who don't play football or basketball are going to the games and grow up to be fans for NBA and NFL.
Kids who don't play soccer, don't grow up to be soccer fans and go to MLS games because they never grew up with the happiness of enjoying the game with friends and family. Europe/Asia/the rest of the world - all grow up watching soccer games together with friends and family.
That's why US Soccer isn't growing, they keep trying to be like the rest of the world.
I'm not suggesting that High School soccer should be a development pathway to the pros. I'm just suggesting that it should be a reward, or promoted goal for the vast majority of kids that play club soccer...instead of being discouraged, or prohibited. DA and MLS Next have not materially, I'd argue even incrementally, improved the development of players. A few more playing internationally, but it hasn't improved the USMNT. We're still talking about very few MLS Next players playing D1 scholarship and substantially fewer playing pro soccer. (According to my calculation there are probably less than 500 scholarships per year available for D1 soccer and many of those are going to international players).
The reason that NBA and NFL are different than pro soccer in terms of development pathway, is not so much the international aspect, but the fact that you can play professional soccer at a much younger age than you can the NBA and the NFL. For American soccer players that's only going to apply to a handful of kids.
The reason that NBA and NFL are different than pro soccer in terms of development pathway, is not so much the international aspect, but the fact that you can play professional soccer at a much younger age than you can the NBA and the NFL. For American soccer players that's only going to apply to a handful of kids.
I do think this somewhat misunderstands what gridiron football really is. I'd argue it's more of a community event than a sport. Teams themselves are large, but just as many spectators are showing up to root on the cheerleaders and band. The bigger games are combined with community events like homecoming. Plenty of people at the superbowl party I attended this year that came for the BBQ, Taylor and the commercials more than the game.
Soccer is hard to build up there particularly given the pacing of the game. Best they can hope for is maybe basketball type attendance-- some games for some teams of which have big attendance numbers but many also don't. I do agree schools should do a better job, but it's never going to be like gridiron football.
Back in the early to mid-80's high school soccer in many San Diego schools was far better supported and attended by both the student body and the community then it is now. Even with Nomads being "THE" Socal club at the time and putting players on the NT, it was still "prestigious" to play high school soccer, and most, if not all Nomads did. Granted it wasn't at football level popularity, but still much greater than it is today. Actually at our school is was the cooler sport of the two, but we also sucked at football.
You pretty much proved the point. Many people watch the league game on a weekly who were never serious football players, not just the Superbowl commercials. Every Sunday and sometimes college football Saturdays, there's a huge fan base tuning in and buying jerseys. Those 100,000 seat college stadiums aren't there because of the cheerleaders or commercials. NFL and NBA are so profittablehe bc they would never tell elite players not to play high school because they understand that their future fanbase will develop from watching stars in high school and college. Yes, soccer should be involving the high school community more, not less. Encourage cheerleaders, colorguards, or a slew of other high school groups to attend these games. Don't discourage it and shit on it. How many potential fans do you think they'll lose?
More kids play soccer and yet the fan base is way less than football and basketball. Do you know why? How does a league expect to gain a fanbase when they think they are too good for their own communities. MLS and NWSL will alienate most US soccer players, and potential future fanbase, by not letting their stars play for their high schools. Think about how many people are getting annoyed with the elitist attitudes of these leagues that are ruining their high school and potentially even college soccer teams rather than supporting these high school and college soccer teams.
Hey @focomoso, here is why I came on here in the first place in 2018. Before 2018, it was to talk smack and talk ganas with parents and that's it. I was told and warned by the head scout of US Soccer in San Diego that High School Soccer was 100% forbidden and 100% against the new rules of the GDA in 2017-2018 and beyond. I loved playing sports in high school and was shocked and bewildered. At first, I thought this clown from England was right and I told my 8th grader that you are forbidden as Adam & Eve were with the Apple, to play sports in high school. It was all GDA or nothing. Talk about Mafia and Gestapo all in one. We decided to tell the God Father, the coach, the Doc and the head "scout" we are leaving the GDA for greener pasture, safe pasture and a place that will allow high school soccer, ECNL. The God Father, the head US Soccer Training Center Director & National Scout told us if we leave "The Firm," we will be labeled club hoppers and told no college coaches would want my dd for hopping around and told she would be banned from any chance at the YNT, no lie watty. We left the GDA to obey the rules bro. You know what the fuck happened next? God Father got the rules changed so Private School kids only were allowed to do both GDA and High School Soccer, you know, have your cake and ice cream and the poor public-school kids were locked out of GDA. Assholes!!! Brah, I was so pissed off I came on here to gripe, complain and call out these losers. Then I find out the head Scout was banging the moms for play time, sexually harassing office workers and the few women coaches that were around. Talk about a frat house. I'm glad we got out when we did to be honest.
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A lot to unpack here.
1. You miss the point about football. It is much more than a game. People are showing up to the games because they've got kids in the band and cheerleading. The bands and cheerleaders are competitive as well, with many splitting after the football season to run in individual competitions themselves. Watfly is correct that schools can be doing more...but that looks more like basketball than football.
2. MLS Next doesn't allow high school for one simple reason. The stuff about training is just window dressing and some first class gaslighting. It's because of the needs of the Academies. The Academies to remain competitive with Europe run on a year round schedule. They need cannon fodder to practice and given soccer season varies across the country due to weather, there is no block of time they can afford to leave people off. It's all about the Academy players. The ideal weather period for a break anyway is fall, but the Academies want that time for themselves, and for high school it's overshadowed by gridiron football.
3. The MLS is essentially second league ball. Other people have written about the self-serving rules they've written in to serve their own agenda (which BTW is an offshoot of needing the league protected early on to make sure it could get off the ground). Even then, right now it's operating like a giant pyramid scheme with introducing new members to pay off the older ones. But the reality is until you get some dynasty level talent (like in the NBA you had the Bulls, Lakers and Warriors), people just won't be that interested, particularly with the EPL having the reach that it has now days. And you are never going to get a dynasty type situation with A level talent (InterMiami notwithstanding) as long as you have the 3 DP rule limitation in the league that basically keeps all teams at a rough parity. People forget that one of the things that made basketball take off was MJ's performance on the Dream Team and his run at the Bulls.
Remain competitive? They'd first have to become competitive, and our academies are a long way from doing so. The produce very few Homegrown players even in the MLS. MLS Next doesn't allow high school soccer for one simple reason...arrogance (probably some $'s too). Playing high school soccer would have zero negative impact on the development of 99.9% of MLS Next players.
Count me in as a parent that attended football games only because of a cheerleader. Now I'm attending because of a player. I'm on my sixth season of losing football.
SurfSupDude
SILVER
This feels truly spot on. Contrast this with EPL.
Before I continue — I know; I know. Youth soccer in the US is not the same as EPL in England. Shocker!
My wife and I watched the Aston Villa v Luton FC game on TV over the weekend.
Luton is a “town” of 218k, northwest of London along the M4. It’s essentially ”a pit stop” along the path from London to northern England and Scotland. Their stadium seats 10k and looks like a patchwork project that was pieced together over 5 decades. Luton FC is fighting to avoid relegation.
10,000 fans showed up. And that place was ROCKING for 90 minutes!!! Because it was a whole-community event. Luton FC wins (they didn’t)? The whole town wins (they didn’t)! Luton FC loses (they did)? The whole town loses (they did).
We simply do not have that here.
My daughter and I watched a top ten national matchup during the playoffs at Surf Park last year. After a home team goal, one of the parents turned to me and yelled, “I don’t know who you are, but…” *high five*!
That was the closest thing to a “community win” as I’ve felt in youth soccer.
Incidentally, this is what's killing hockey. There used to be dynasties centered around hockey-crazy cities. Chicago won 4 in a row. Then the Islanders. Then Edmonton won 5 out of 7. But now the league has flattened out so much in hopes of spreading hockey deeper into the US that the standings flip every day and it's nearly impossible to win more than twice in a row and you get finals between Florida and Las Vegas. If the NHL were to let dynasties flourish, it would do more to spread the sport than trying to create support in places where no one plays.
whatithink
GOLD
Luton Town FC was founded in 1885, so they've had a while to become a part of the community. They also have years of adversity to lean on - everyone loves an underdog story. Finally, they win every time they take to the field in the EPL given the $ they have earned this year, and what they will get from the parachute payments even if they get relegated. Their fans know this and are 100% just enjoying the ride and living in hope that they stay up and get to repeat it all again next year. Brentford are a good comparison (founded 1889).
You can't buy that passion - which is something US sports owners miss (the let's move city brigade because they won't give me a billion for a new stadium).
It's always about the money. Full time soccer and no other sports benefits who? The club that charges $4,000+, the coach that charges for extra privates, the hotels, the restaurants, uniform company that makes new uniforms every year because of the new sponsor, the airlines and the gas stations.
Misses the point. It's the needs of the 1% of players that are driving the other 99%. The other 99% are just sacrificed to the 1%. It's a conscious decision on the part of US Soccer and MLS to focus on the development of professional players (it's the same reason they moved the age line...from a college development point of view, the old line makes more sense). You can have the game focused on developing professional players, developing college players, or winning trophies...not gonna do well if you are trying to please all 3 constituencies and do all 3 at once.
Is it working? No. There are three overriding reasons for it. First, our academies are a poor shadow of what even C league academies look like in the UK. That alone, however, isn't a deal breaker...they are hanging in there and the US on the men's side has remained competitive in the U20s. Second, our academies start late....talent is being missed as a result...those Latino League U7 that can't afford Strikers and who aren't early bloomers powerful enough to early a free ride (let alone transport) are being made to sit on the vine and by U13 they just don't have the skills to make an academy team. Remember the recommendation (less than a decade old) was that players shouldn't be playing full time in goal until U13? Europeans are now assigning goalkeepers at the academies at entry as early as U7. Not tall enough in the end to play pro? To bad so sad for you. But the biggest point is the U20s....we don't have a good way to transition onto the pro track from U20 because we don't have a robust secondary league that is competitive with what you can early at college...for the MLS it's easier to import players from small Central American and Caribbean country because to those players the MLS base salary is a fortune.
The entire Sunderland thing on Netflix is fascinating. We used to have the equivalent in AA and AAA baseball. Baseball is dying in part because we don't have that anymore....the drivers are the marquee teams. Baseball's decline is the mirror image of the problem with soccer in the US, and until we get a real pyramid that's not going to happen. The preliminary step is the MLS needs to adopt pro/rel into an A and B league but they'll never do it for a variety of reasons, both legal and economic.