West Coast Classic 2017-Refs

[Sparky9]

Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given several yellows and a red.
Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.

 

[Surfref]

The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?

The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018. The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same. Most SD refs get games from both associations. I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening. High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.

You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association. Which association do you work for?

http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/

 

[bababooey]

Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given several yellows and a red.
Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.

I could not agree more with the underlined comment. Thanks.

 

[espola]

The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018. The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same. Most SD refs get games from both associations. I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening. High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.

You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association. Which association do you work for?

http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/

How good are those military games?

 

[Art]

The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018. The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same. Most SD refs get games from both associations. I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening. High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.

You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association. Which association do you work for?

http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/

Before you told me SDSRA I did some difging and founs the fee schedule on your associations site ahah. I am trying to figure out why the fee schedule up here is so low...looks like tournament games are payin better for you guys down there, better than league as I see it against the minutes.

I work with Upper Desert, SCSRA, and their usually getting games from Long beach association. So Idk if LB is sellin them short or their just giving a lower rate so they acquire more tournaments. In my area LB is the biggest association and does games everywhere from surf to the UCLA cup and even games in Corona at silverlakes. Find it odd really..contacted George (state referee administrator) and he couldnt give me a straight answer, smells fishy.

 

[SoCal GK mom]

Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given several yellows and a red.
Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.

I second Sparky's comments. I actually saw the best youth soccer reffing I've ever seen on Saturday in GU15 at West Coast. The ref began the game by addressing the parents, acknowledging that they were likely to yell at refs, as if they were yelling at a tv. He offered that after three errors per half, parents were allowed to boo him. By doing this, he got the parents on his side and despite a few small mistaken calls (throw in/ goalkick vs. corner), there was very little complaining from the sidelines. He had great game management and was balanced and fair. And most importantly, the girls played good, safe soccer. Kudos to him and the tournament- I know we'd all love to see more refs like him.

 

[coachrefparent]

I second Sparky's comments. I actually saw the best youth soccer reffing I've ever seen on Saturday in GU15 at West Coast. The ref began the game by addressing the parents, acknowledging that they were likely to yell at refs, as if they were yelling at a tv. He offered that after three errors per half, parents were allowed to boo him. By doing this, he got the parents on his side and despite a few small mistaken calls (throw in/ goalkick vs. corner), there was very little complaining from the sidelines. He had great game management and was balanced and fair. And most importantly, the girls played good, safe soccer. Kudos to him and the tournament- I know we'd all love to see more refs like him.

But who decides if it's an error? If it worked, great. But in my experience, parents would be booing in the first 5 minutes even if there were no real errors.

 

[SoCal GK mom]

But who decides if it's an error? If it worked, great. But in my experience, parents would be booing in the first 5 minutes even if there were no real errors.

He actually acknowledged a few possible missed calls, "ok, that might be one of your three..." It made the relationship human instead of adversarial. Come to think of it, that kind of leadership could really help us on a national level, too.

 

[The Driver]

Coaches that yell don't foul to their defenders + out of shape refs = bad calls

I really don't think they try to blow calls when they do.

 

[Surfref]

The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?

Check the link on my other post. Maybe the assignees are taking a larger cut than our assigners. Bring it up at your next ref association meeting. I know my two main associations negotiate have d to get us more pay.

 

[Surfref]

How good are those military games?

They vary greatly. We have a few players that played on the Albion semi-pro team, ex-college players, ex-club players all the way to players that only played at recess in school. It is 9v9 and each team must have at least one female on the field or play with 8 players. There is also a mercy rule, if one team is ahead by 5 goals with 15 minutes remaining in the game than the game is over. We have a mercy rule game about 25% of the time. There are only 8 of us refs and the Grades vary from 6 to 8 with one emeritus. The ref badges are really cool looking. There are three seasons spring, summer and fall. Play location varies by the season. We have teams from ships, shore commands and Marines

 

[Lambchop]

If you are referencing the 7v7 games at Surf Cup, those fields were so small that it only took a couple steps to go from midfield to the top of the penalty area.

I have seen these same refs attempting games with older players and it is sad. Maybe big tournaments need to pay the refs more to get physically fit, experienced refs for the games. There has to be a way to do that beyond the "set" fees. I am sure the refs are doing it because they love the game or want to keep busy if they are retired, but at some point you say ok, time to move on. If there truly are 6,500 refs in Socal, as someone stated, tournament officials should be able to get appropriate refs, unless of course politics are part of it.

 

[Art]

I have seen these same refs attempting games with older players and it is sad. Maybe big tournaments need to pay the refs more to get physically fit, experienced refs for the games. There has to be a way to do that beyond the "set" fees. I am sure the refs are doing it because they love the game or want to keep busy if they are retired, but at some point you say ok, time to move on. If there truly are 6,500 refs in Socal, as someone stated, tournament officials should be able to get appropriate refs, unless of course politics are part of it.

Politics are part of everything in this world, and made its way into sports from the beginning of said sports inception.

I'd think what you are saying is fine, just there would be some thoughts on what is fit and experienced in some assignors eyes haha. If tournaments want referees by grade and fitness level then they better be ready to reserve certain individual months ahead, on top of that I can say only about maybe 35% or so are actually fit, not gonna estimate anything about experience. That 6,500 number in socal was a number I got from calsouth SRA George, I think I read 8000 on their site..anyway those numbers are not always accurate and we dont know if all certified referees do sanctioned games, you can guess that half of the numbers above is what the actual number is on consistent active referees.

The only solution, logical and in the short term is limiting the needed amount of referees for the u12 and under age categories...maximum 2 man system and implementing 1 man system at 7 v 7 games and certain 9 v 9 games. Especially for tournament games! That way youll have your most competent and fit referees at the most competitive levels of play.

Of course nothing will come from us sitting on our butts and typing on a forum. Along with the fact that we cant put individuals out of work that are willing to actually put in work.

 

[Lambchop]

Politics are part of everything in this world, and made its way into sports from the beginning of said sports inception.

I'd think what you are saying is fine, just there would be some thoughts on what is fit and experienced in some assignors eyes haha. If tournaments want referees by grade and fitness level then they better be ready to reserve certain individual months ahead, on top of that I can say only about maybe 35% or so are actually fit, not gonna estimate anything about experience. That 6,500 number in socal was a number I got from calsouth SRA George, I think I read 8000 on their site..anyway those numbers are not always accurate and we dont know if all certified referees do sanctioned games, you can guess that half of the numbers above is what the actual number is on consistent active referees.

The only solution, logical and in the short term is limiting the needed amount of referees for the u12 and under age categories...maximum 2 man system and implementing 1 man system at 7 v 7 games and certain 9 v 9 games. Especially for tournament games! That way youll have your most competent and fit referees at the most competitive levels of play.

Of course nothing will come from us sitting on our butts and typing on a forum. Along with the fact that we cant put individuals out of work that are willing to actually put in work.

Of course politics, rewards plays into it. By being fit I meant being able to move with the flow of the game. Hopefully more than 35% can move with the flow of the game. If a tournament needs to reserve refs ahead of time than so be it. Teams pay a lot of money to be in the tournaments and the tournaments generate a lot of cash for who ever is putting it on. I am not questioning the calls of any game but at least give us refs who can move with the game. If they need to pay more than they should.

 

[Art]

Of course politics, rewards plays into it. By being fit I meant being able to move with the flow of the game. Hopefully more than 35% can move with the flow of the game. If a tournament needs to reserve refs ahead of time than so be it. Teams pay a lot of money to be in the tournaments and the tournaments generate a lot of cash for who ever is putting it on. I am not questioning the calls of any game but at least give us refs who can move with the game. If they need to pay more than they should.

Some tournaments and areas are already paying well according to the fees I've seen in the SDSRA link and its just the tourneys located centrally i.e corona silverlakes, oc area, lancaster and all that arent paying well, along with the valley areas. Refs have to deal with middlemen i.e associations and tournaments in terms of pay so they dont get much of a say in how much would be right. Hopefully sooner or later we'll have a solution in place.

As for my 35% stat, I just figure that usually the crews I work with arent the fittest or most conditioned. Regardless of age, there is youth and elders that are out of shape.

 

[Sons of Pitches]

According to Cal South there are 5,853 Registered Referees for 2017. Level 9 (6.4% of total pool) being the least trained (Small Sided recreational youth games only) to Level 1 (FIFA Games/International matches etc...). (there are level 13,15 and 16 refs too, these are emeritus refs....etc - 266 such designations registered in cal south)

The overwhelming majority 4,519 out of 5,853 (77.2% are level 8 referees) level 8 referees have met the minimum requirements to referee all youth games and assistant referee in comparable games.

According to the Cal South Website Grade 8 and Grade 9 are considered Entry Level Referees. That means 83.6% of the referees are considered entry level.

There are only 442 Level 7 referees, 7.5% of the total pool. Level 7 - "All amateur youth games and adult games below the top division"

Since the overwhelming majority are Level 8 I imagine it is difficult for any club administrator to weed through the good ones and the bad ones, etc... to arrive at a good crew for a tournament. Surely there are some great Level 8 referees, that are experienced, have played the game etc... but if you are trying to recruit a bunch of refs for a tournament I imagine it could be very difficult.

Not involved enough to know, but would like it if someone could shed light on what Cal South is doing to encourage qualified refs to move through the ranks from Entry Level 8 to Level 7, and how you could possibly have more of these Qualified Level 7 Refs working youth games? Or are there different designations within Level 8 that identify experienced refs?

I looked through the most recent board meeting minutes, this does not seem to be an issue Cal South is discussing. I find it interesting that there is not referee representative on the Cal South Board of Directors? There is not even a Referee Sub Committee that I could find? If the Mission Statement is to Advance and Improve Soccer in Southern California, should this not include the referees?

 

[timbuck]

What about limiting the number of tournaments? When you have 5 tournaments every weekend, all summer long, some are going to wind up with "lesser" referees.

 

[The Driver]

Same unfit refs with pull will get the pick

 

[coachrefparent]

According to Cal South there are 5,853 Registered Referees for 2017. Level 9 (6.4% of total pool) being the least trained (Small Sided recreational youth games only) to Level 1 (FIFA Games/International matches etc...). (there are level 13,15 and 16 refs too, these are emeritus refs....etc - 266 such designations registered in cal south)

The overwhelming majority 4,519 out of 5,853 (77.2% are level 8 referees) level 8 referees have met the minimum requirements to referee all youth games and assistant referee in comparable games.

According to the Cal South Website Grade 8 and Grade 9 are considered Entry Level Referees. That means 83.6% of the referees are considered entry level.

There are only 442 Level 7 referees, 7.5% of the total pool. Level 7 - "All amateur youth games and adult games below the top division"

Since the overwhelming majority are Level 8 I imagine it is difficult for any club administrator to weed through the good ones and the bad ones, etc... to arrive at a good crew for a tournament. Surely there are some great Level 8 referees, that are experienced, have played the game etc... but if you are trying to recruit a bunch of refs for a tournament I imagine it could be very difficult.

Not involved enough to know, but would like it if someone could shed light on what Cal South is doing to encourage qualified refs to move through the ranks from Entry Level 8 to Level 7, and how you could possibly have more of these Qualified Level 7 Refs working youth games? Or are there different designations within Level 8 that identify experienced refs?

I looked through the most recent board meeting minutes, this does not seem to be an issue Cal South is discussing. I find it interesting that there is not referee representative on the Cal South Board of Directors? There is not even a Referee Sub Committee that I could find? If the Mission Statement is to Advance and Improve Soccer in Southern California, should this not include the referees?

Most of the refs doing youth competitive club games are Grade 8, even the really good ones.

 

[Frank]

Most of the refs doing youth competitive club games are Grade 8, even the really good ones.

True, and considering most tournament have one ref association involved the sample size of available refs is much smaller than the 1000's number thrown around here. I would guess most associations are 350-500 refs of which a % of that would be considered experienced on this site.