US CLUB SOCCER AND USYS

[Carlsbad7]

I don't know if MLS or GA want to bother with a littles league.

But one thing I keep thinking about is a lot of parents like to be able to say "she does ECNL". Well.... No, in the case of X you actually do ECRL, the offer letter says ECNL-RL, but nobody keeps that straight or cares much.

A third league (ECNL, ECRL the first 2) to wall it off a little more. This would be for 13-19, not littles, it would definitley be an attempt to drive the stake.

Where it fails is boys side MLS Next is clear top dog. But overall market share is most likely the goal, US Soccer is just rubber stamping some corporate goodness.

Any geography that has local MLSN and GA leagues could create their own littles league. The reason they haven't done it is littles are a huge amount of work and if you can play against everyone. Not just MLS and GA clubs usually theres not as much travel. Also MLS and GA would have to do this across the nation all at once which would be a massive undertaking. Finally, something that nobody considers is while you could automate the entire thing with an app for some reason refs like to get paid in cash. Maybe theres a reason many can't speak English .

Even with all the challenges eventually there will be a tipping point where financially and to maintain Marketshare it makes sense for GA and MLS to do their own thing if littles leagues are partnering with their primary competitor.

US Soccer is supposed to be the king maker for everything soccer in America. Right now they're allowing multiple kings to exist who waste resources competing against each other at a business level. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those resources developing the best possible players by competing against each other on the field? Next time you see XYZ club owner show up in a gold plated Mercedes to an event. Keep in mind that they literally are the reason Amercan Soccer sucks internationally and US Soccer is allowing it to happen.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

So basically doesnt do much and drives the stake between MLSN + ECNL even deeper increasing the chances that MLS + GA will say screw it and create their own littles leagues.

US Soccer you're supposed to be keeping this type of thing from happening so everyone can play each other.

MLSN has their own ecosystem already with EA and EA2 starting at U11. At U13, the better players go up to MLSN HG or AD (if the club has it) while the others are spread between EA and EA2 (3rd and 4th teams).

 

[Carlsbad7]

MLSN has their own ecosystem already with EA and EA2 starting at U11. At U13, the better players go up to MLSN HG or AD (if the club has it) while the others are spread between EA and EA2 (3rd and 4th teams).

Good to see that US Soccer has allowed walled off leagues to exist all the way down to u11. At least with MLS theres some free soccer for youth players but even then it funnels into a pro league that has salary caps and no payments for development.

The more you know the less you want to know.

 

[Lou789]

How does this impact EA? Will it no longer exist or just fewer teams playing in EA?

 

[shankbone]

Any geography that has local MLSN and GA leagues could create their own littles league. The reason they haven't done it is littles are a huge amount of work and if you can play against everyone. Not just MLS and GA clubs usually theres not as much travel. Also MLS and GA would have to do this across the nation all at once which would be a massive undertaking. Finally, something that nobody considers is while you could automate the entire thing with an app for some reason refs like to get paid in cash. Maybe theres a reason many can't speak English .

Even with all the challenges eventually there will be a tipping point where financially and to maintain Marketshare it makes sense for GA and MLS to do their own thing if littles leagues are partnering with their primary competitor.

US Soccer is supposed to be the king maker for everything soccer in America. Right now they're allowing multiple kings to exist who waste resources competing against each other at a business level. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those resources developing the best possible players by competing against each other on the field? Next time you see XYZ club owner show up in a gold plated Mercedes to an event. Keep in mind that they literally are the reason Amercan Soccer sucks internationally and US Soccer is allowing it to happen.

USA Soccer is supposed to be the king maker. 100! That is laughable at this point.

How does this impact EA? Will it no longer exist or just fewer teams playing in EA?

That is the wait and see what happens right? In southern california they have bumped the same kids into different sounding letters (EA/EA2) to try and gobble market share just like this ECRL2/National League/NPL thing. Who wins? Definitely not families or kids.

 

[ColdPizza]

I just got an email from NL with this link. NewComp is the temporary name.
https://r.news.usyouthsoccer.org/mk/cl/f/sh/WCPzyXJTZ6uvdPJfntEy6lt2fONqmobM/upDmzVmYQ94N

Below please find NewComp updates from NewComp Commisioner Marc Frankland:

Over the past few weeks, I have been working with the league management committee to develop a Canva document, to provide all of the factual information we have to date on NewComp. This document should act as the only point of reference with regard to news updates on our exciting new competition, until such time as we launch the official website for the league. This will be updated, as soon as more news becomes available.

See link here: NewComp Canva News!

This document has been created to provide all league operators, state assns., clubs, teams and most importantly, the players the most accurate and up to date information on the league, including timelines and FAQ's.

As we all know, there is a lot of misinformation out there, I ask for your support in ensuring that when you see this, you point people back to this Canva document.



This landmark partnership between US Club Soccer and US Youth Soccer takes a huge first step in a broader effort to strengthen soccer competition platforms among national organizations and local/state leagues. These are exciting times and I am looking forward to working with all of you as we begin the journey to unify the youth soccer pathway in this country.

Thanks,
Marc Frankland
NewComp Commissioner

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

US Soccer is supposed to be the king maker for everything soccer in America.

Um, they tried with DA and it collapsed.

 

[sigmabody]

That is the wait and see what happens right? In southern california they have bumped the same kids into different sounding letters (EA/EA2) to try and gobble market share just like this ECRL2/National League/NPL thing. Who wins? Definitely not families or kids.

I also imagine this will put smaller clubs into an awkward position, if/where they currently have (or could have) NPL/NL and EA/EA2 teams. Per the FAQ attached to the expanded announcement (ty @ColdPizza), NPL and NL are being joined and subsumed into NewComp (or at least that's the plan). If such a club has a team playing at or around that level, they will have to choose which pathway to place the team into, and both have pros and cons.

My sense from talking to a couple people within my son's club (which has both now) is that EA/EA2 will probably be preferred for now, based on the expanded competition schedule and more showcase events (and potential pathway into MLSn), but some of that is TBD with how much college exposure NewComp gets in relation to ECNL, and there's also some value in the more regional (and less travel) aspect of NewComp, especially for younger players (where showcase events are not as important). It sounds like ECNL is going to half-ass their competition pathway for NewComp (by pitting potentially much stronger teams against significantly weaker ECNL RL teams, to preserve the exclusivity and business advantage for ECNL proper), which could advantage EA/EA2 a lot. But, a lot of that is TBD, and the cooperation with USYS and USCS seems to imply that ECNL could easily come out "on top" as the de facto pathway, if their corporate greed doesn't kneecap those efforts.

That's my current read on it anyway, for whatever its worth.

 

[sigmabody]

Also, personally and fwiw, where not even six months ago I was planning my off-ramp from this mess, now I find myself right back in the middle of it, as my son got invited to play in the (current) NPL team for next year (which may now play in EA2 instead), which he wants to do. So now I'm back trying to figure out what all this means for our schedule, based on whatever the club decides to do. Absolutely right, @shankbone: definitely not the families or kids [who are winning].

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I also imagine this will put smaller clubs into an awkward position, if/where they currently have (or could have) NPL/NL and EA/EA2 teams. Per the FAQ attached to the expanded announcement (ty @ColdPizza), NPL and NL are being joined and subsumed into NewComp (or at least that's the plan). If such a club has a team playing at or around that level, they will have to choose which pathway to place the team into, and both have pros and cons.

My sense from talking to a couple people within my son's club (which has both now) is that EA/EA2 will probably be preferred for now, based on the expanded competition schedule and more showcase events (and potential pathway into MLSn), but some of that is TBD with how much college exposure NewComp gets in relation to ECNL, and there's also some value in the more regional (and less travel) aspect of NewComp, especially for younger players (where showcase events are not as important). It sounds like ECNL is going to half-ass their competition pathway for NewComp (by pitting potentially much stronger teams against significantly weaker ECNL RL teams, to preserve the exclusivity and business advantage for ECNL proper), which could advantage EA/EA2 a lot. But, a lot of that is TBD, and the cooperation with USYS and USCS seems to imply that ECNL could easily come out "on top" as the de facto pathway, if their corporate greed doesn't kneecap those efforts.

That's my current read on it anyway, for whatever its worth.

I dunno. It seems like you're focusing too much on a strange situation in your own small neck of the woods, and not sticking with the bigger picture. You keep repeating that NPL has stronger teams than ECNL-RL. This isn't true everywhere. It's not true most places. If it is true in some selected places now - it will stop being true in a season or to once it's more clearly defined that RL is the stepping stone from NPL (and NL) and teams sort themselves out. It happened quick in Norcal, as RL teams that were pretty terrible, when described as "NPL" or other labels a season ago, have been able to use the name to recruit and grow. Many of these same teams are seeing much more success than they were only 6 months ago, when one of the RL brackets really did look weaker than NPL.

But yes - as MLSN is trying to sort out the pathway from EA --> AD --> HD, at least in principle if not a likely path for any 1 individual - ECNL and US Comp is trying to sort out the pathway from NPL/NL (Newcomp) --> RL --> ECNL, if it as well is not a likely path for any 1 individual. Both of the orgs need to sell the pathway descriptions to clubs, and convince them that each will be more lucrative than the other over the long-term.

 

[sigmabody]

I dunno. It seems like you're focusing too much on a strange situation in your own small neck of the woods, and not sticking with the bigger picture. You keep repeating that NPL has stronger teams than ECNL-RL. This isn't true everywhere. It's not true most places.

That's fair, you could be correct.

As an example sampling, I looked at the top half of NPL and the bottom half of ECNL RL, for B2011 in California, in the Soccer Rankings app with textual search (based on the NewComp proposed end-of-season match-ups). The top half of NPL goes from ~70 to ~175 in the state, with an average rating around 120. The bottom half of ECNL RL goes from ~210 to ~650, with an average rating around 330. That's not remotely comparable, for that sample set.

Maybe the good players will migrate from NewComp to ECNL RL teams over time; that's possible (and certainly what ENCL would hope for, business-wise). It's also possible the players, or teams, migrate to EA2/EA/MLSn (particularly if the proposed end-of-season match-ups are so garbage, as current statistics would suggest, and/or if EA improves its competing pathway). See my observation about how much ECNL values creating a good pathway over their corporate greed. As it stands, though (and at least for the same set/data above), NewComp would need to play top end ECNL RL (and maybe the bottom end ECNL) for the current teams to have level competition in a playoff, and that might expose some of the "letter league" pseudo-grift at the bottom of ECNL RL.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Keep in mind that there is NPL1, NPL2, and NPL3 elsewhere, including in Norcal. It's essentially impossible to do a keyword search to try and find all NPL teams in SR and try to aggregate/sort by average or anything else, as many of the teams aren't named "NPL". Mark and team have other ways to try and do this, and yes, in past aggregations - they've found ECNL-RL is stronger than NPL. But it's not night and day.

What you'd need to do instead is take the actual brackets with all teams, top to bottom, put in the SR ratings, and find averages by bracket - rather than by team name keyword search. Then you can compare/contrast bracket strength.

You can certainly find some of the top NPL teams and some of the weaker RL teams. But by the same token you can take some of the top RL teams and find some particularly weak NPL teams to show the opposite.

 

[sigmabody]

You can certainly find some of the top NPL teams and some of the weaker RL teams. But by the same token you can take some of the top RL teams and find some particularly weak NPL teams to show the opposite.

Sure, but importantly, that's not what the NewComp announcement said. It said, explicitly, that they expect top end NPL/NL to play lower tier ECNL RL. That match-up would be statistically garbage (with current teams, example data particularly from SoCal, etc.). The only reasons to propose that match up structure are to pretend ECNL RL is stronger than it is, and/or to pretend ECNL in general is the highest tier of youth soccer. Neither of those are currently accurate, and are examples of ECNL undermining the competitive value of their NewComp to prioritize their business interests.

Moreover, that might not even be good for ENCL in the longer term, if their branded teams get consistently curb-stomped at NewComp end-of-season events. There's certainly a scenario where their corporate greed drives top-end players away from ECNL, and toward EA/MLSn. I do not think it's a given that this pushes parents and/or clubs to move teams into ECNL RL, particularly if their experience is ECNL only allowing NewComp teams to play their bottom feeders. We shall see how it shakes out.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

It's marketing speak, that I think you're taking too literally. It's in nobody's best interest to promote complete mismatches in a postseason that wouldn't be enjoyed by either party. Broadly, one of the leagues (RL) is stronger than the other (NPL + NL = Newcomp). Bringing compatible teams together in a combined postseason can provide better opportunities for both.

An RL team that doesn't make their own playoffs doesn't mean it has to be an RL team that's 6 goals off the frontrunners.

 

[sigmabody]

It's marketing speak, that I think you're taking too literally. It's in nobody's best interest to promote complete mismatches in a postseason that wouldn't be enjoyed by either party. Broadly, one of the leagues (RL) is stronger than the other (NPL + NL = Newcomp). Bringing compatible teams together in a combined postseason can provide better opportunities for both.

An RL team that doesn't make their own playoffs doesn't mean it has to be an RL team that's 6 goals off the frontrunners.

I think we're largely thinking/saying the same thing here.

If NewComp pits current high-end NPL/NL against high end ECNL RL (and/or mid tier ECNL), then it could become a good league with better playoff and progression opportunities for kids. If they instead do what they explicitly said they were doing, it would likely be lopsided garbage competition which underlines the credibility of both ECNL and USCS. The difference in opinion about what's likely to happen is just around how much we believe what the announcement says, vs predicting something else.

This goes back to what I was saying: the ball is in ECNL's court, so to speak, to see if they do what's best for the kids and US Soccer in general, or what's best for their own business interests and corporate greed. I don't know that I have enough knowledge or context to predict which of those is more likely. I think the thing we could state as a consensus, though, is that if they do exactly what they said they were going to do, it probably will not work out well.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I think we're largely thinking/saying the same thing here.

You are free to think so, I'm not so sure.

If NewComp pits current high-end NPL/NL against high end ECNL RL (and/or mid tier ECNL), then it could become a good league with better playoff and progression opportunities for kids. If they instead do what they explicitly said they were doing, it would likely be lopsided garbage competition which underlines the credibility of both ECNL and USCS. The difference in opinion about what's likely to happen is just around how much we believe what the announcement says, vs predicting something else.

The main sticking point it that this comes from a false belief that ECNL-R is universally, or even substantially, weaker than NPL. We're happy if you're aware of an NPL team which isn't terrible. In the context of high-level competitive soccer where kids are choosing to travel significant distances to compete - NPL has always been a decent example of why that's probably a bad idea for most participants.

However the new combined setup turns out to be designed and implemented, either it will attract more teams/clubs, and therefore paying customers - or it can turn out to be a failure, and potentially scaring teams/clubs into the clutches of the competing organizations.

 

[shankbone]

Also, personally and fwiw, where not even six months ago I was planning my off-ramp from this mess, now I find myself right back in the middle of it, as my son got invited to play in the (current) NPL team for next year (which may now play in EA2 instead), which he wants to do. So now I'm back trying to figure out what all this means for our schedule, based on whatever the club decides to do. Absolutely right, @shankbone: definitely not the families or kids [who are winning].

Off-ramp from the mess! Is this a Godfather III moment? "Just when I thought I was out..."

Your other post brought up a great point - at what point should kids look at showcases? As that pushes younger and younger as well...

I don't personally think its a good idea for kids in middle school to go to showcases. Or travel out of state for games. But that happens a ton. ENCL teams will travel to Vegas, Arizona, San Diego. That's part of selling the dream.

Good luck to your boy! Hope you have a good coach and a club with fields as close to your home as possible, with a competition level that is challenging but not backbreaking!

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Relevant tangent on comparative league strength - just had a conversation thread with the folks at SR, and asked them if there are any updates to the league rating charts that they've occasionally published in the past. Now that there seems to be more overlap between the various MLS-related and ECNL-related expansions, they want to be able to provide more answers as well. One of their next big projects is adding that type of overall competition ranking to the app itself, and the charts should be baked in & live.