University of California votes to restore affirmative action nearly 24 years after it was outlawed

nononono said:
Horseshit on both counts.....I have personal knowledge that says
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
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If you happen to be living in a neighborhood where schools are bad, where your teachers dumb down the syllabus so that your classmates can follow the class, as a result you are not prepared to take the SAT because among some reason, your teacher did not finish teaching the syllabus; are you saying that you would refuse to be helped in this matter through affirmative action?

I on the other hand think you should be helped. The one difference between me and other progressives is I believe affirmative action should apply to all races and we should help those who could not afford a home in an expensive zipcode to go to a good school. Other supporters of affirmative action do not care about income level, they would be happy to admit the children of CEO of a Black person as long as they are black to make the admissions class colorful. This is why I consider those supporters racists.
 
QUOTE="blam, post: 336272, member: 4726"

If you happen to be living in a neighborhood where schools are bad, where your teachers dumb down the syllabus so that your classmates can follow the class, as a result you are not prepared to take the SAT because among some reason, your teacher did not finish teaching the syllabus; are you saying that you would refuse to be helped in this matter through affirmative action?
Never can a Liberal/Progressive take responsibility for their OWN actions....It's very disheartening to
see how you twisted the " SAT Drama " and made it the Teachers problem....Parenting numnuts...Parenting....!
Eighteen years of raising/nurturing a GOOD product, or Eighteen years of playing the BLAME game and conditioning the offspring to continue the cycle....
CHOICES !!!!!


I on the other hand think you should be helped. The one difference between me and other progressives is I believe affirmative action should apply to all races and we should help those who could not afford a home in an expensive zipcode to go to a good school. Other supporters of affirmative action do not care about income level, they would be happy to admit the children of CEO of a Black person as long as they are black to make the admissions class colorful. This is why I consider those supporters racists.
You have a very miserable outlook on life, go to an Ice Cream shop and purchase some " Comfort " and
sit some place quiet for awhile.....


/QUOTE



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nononono said:
Never can a Liberal/Progressive take responsibility for their OWN actions....It's very disheartening to
see how you twisted the " SAT Drama " and made it the Teachers problem....Parenting numnuts...Parenting....!
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Wait...so you are saying that which school you go does not matter to your grades? I just gave an example: if your teacher dumbs down the syllabus for your class, even if you are a smart kid, you will be unprepared to take the SAT because your teacher didn't finish the syllabus.
 
blam said:
Wait...so you are saying that which school you go does not matter to your grades? I just gave an example: if your teacher dumbs down the syllabus for your class, even if you are a smart kid, you will be unprepared to take the SAT because your teacher didn't finish the syllabus.
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Where you go to school does matter. Are you saying that public schools allow for teachers to dumb down the syllabus? If so, maybe government shouldn’t be in the education business.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Are you saying that public schools allow for teachers to dumb down the syllabus? If so, maybe government shouldn’t be in the education business.
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Totally agree with Thomas Stowell guy. Affirmative action based on race cannot be defended. Affirmative action needs to be based on giving fair opportunity to all regardless of race.

Private schools will not solve the issue. This problem exist whenever there are groups of people. Take a soccer team. You have one star player who shows all skills to play pro, and he is paired up with 10 other players who suck. If you are the coach, you have no choice but to "dumb down" the training so that the other 10 can follow.

Private or Public has nothing to do with it. The root is that school allocation is based on zipcodes and property taxes which means that if you live in a rich area, you will go to good schools, with children who are raised by good parents etc. etc. and the opposite for poorer neighborhood. Now you take a kid with innate talent to do well, put him in this bad zipcode, the environment will just tear him down and he will not perform to his true potential. As a thought experiment, take a top student from a good high school, put him into the worst school in your district, i guarantee you his performance in standardized testing will suffer significantly. He can raised by good parents, but his classmates will bring the system down. Not fair to him.

The system of allocating schools based on zipcode need to be eliminated if we want to eliminate affirmative action based on income because the current system is not fair. Affirmative based on race is not even a consideration for me because that is straight out racist.
 
blam said:
Wait...so you are saying that which school you go does not matter to your grades? I just gave an example: if your teacher dumbs down the syllabus for your class, even if you are a smart kid, you will be unprepared to take the SAT because your teacher didn't finish the syllabus.
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You're on the losing end of this argument.......Waaaaaay over on the losing end.

When YOU ride a bicycle who controls it....?
 
blam said:
Totally agree with Thomas Stowell guy. Affirmative action based on race cannot be defended. Affirmative action needs to be based on giving fair opportunity to all regardless of race.

Private schools will not solve the issue. This problem exist whenever there are groups of people. Take a soccer team. You have one star player who shows all skills to play pro, and he is paired up with 10 other players who suck. If you are the coach, you have no choice but to "dumb down" the training so that the other 10 can follow.

Private or Public has nothing to do with it. The root is that school allocation is based on zipcodes and property taxes which means that if you live in a rich area, you will go to good schools, with children who are raised by good parents etc. etc. and the opposite for poorer neighborhood. Now you take a kid with innate talent to do well, put him in this bad zipcode, the environment will just tear him down and he will not perform to his true potential. As a thought experiment, take a top student from a good high school, put him into the worst school in your district, i guarantee you his performance in standardized testing will suffer significantly. He can raised by good parents, but his classmates will bring the system down. Not fair to him.

The system of allocating schools based on zipcode need to be eliminated if we want to eliminate affirmative action based on income because the current system is not fair. Affirmative based on race is not even a consideration for me because that is straight out racist.
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Wallpapering the problem doesn't make it go away................
 
blam said:
Private schools will not solve the issue. This problem exist whenever there are groups of people. Take a soccer team. You have one star player who shows all skills to play pro, and he is paired up with 10 other players who suck. If you are the coach, you have no choice but to "dumb down" the training so that the other 10 can follow.
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Teams and Private schools $olve problems whenever there are groups of people who are willing to $olve problems. Otherwise they keep moving until they find a location and group that they can work with to $olve problems.
 
blam said:
Private or Public has nothing to do with it. The root is that school allocation is based on zipcodes and property taxes which means that if you live in a rich area, you will go to good schools, with children who are raised by good parents etc. etc. and the opposite for poorer neighborhood. Now you take a kid with innate talent to do well, put him in this bad zipcode, the environment will just tear him down and he will not perform to his true potential. As a thought experiment, take a top student from a good high school, put him into the worst school in your district, i guarantee you his performance in standardized testing will suffer significantly. He can raised by good parents, but his classmates will bring the system down. Not fair to him.
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Why would you tell us that public and private have nothing to do with "it" and then explain to us why it actually has a lot to do with "it"?
 
blam said:
The system of allocating schools based on zipcode need to be eliminated if we want to eliminate affirmative action based on income because the current system is not fair. Affirmative based on race is not even a consideration for me because that is straight out racist.
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Sowell was born in Gastonia, North Carolina, near the border with South Carolina. His father died shortly before he was born, and his mother, a housemaid, already had four children. A great-aunt and her two grown daughters adopted Sowell and raised him.[2] In his autobiography, A Personal Odyssey, Sowell wrote that his childhood encounters with white people were so limited that he did not know that blond was a hair color.[3] When Sowell was nine, his family moved from Charlotte, North Carolina, to Harlem, New York City, as part of the Great Migration of African Americans from the South to the North for greater opportunities. He qualified for Stuyvesant High School, a prestigious academic high school in New York City; he was the first in his family to study beyond the sixth grade. However, he was forced to drop out at age 17 because of financial difficulties and problems in his home.[2]

Sowell held a number of positions, including one at a machine shop and another as a delivery man for Western Union,[4] and he tried out for the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1948.[5] He was drafted into the military in 1951, during the Korean War, and was assigned to the United States Marine Corps. Because of his experience in photography, Sowell became a Marine Corps photographer.[2]
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Teams and Private schools $olve problems whenever there are groups of people who are willing to $olve problems. Otherwise they keep moving until they find a location and group that they can work with to $olve problems.
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You only have freedom to move if you can afford it. Pay to play. If you can pay yourself to play in a good team, then problem solved. Yes, you can always say, the person who lived in a bad neighborhood can go to a private school instead. What if he doesn't have the money?

Free market is a good way to solve many problems and should always be the first attempt. However, as in many economics textbook, there is a chapter called "market failure" which is usually taught towards the end which the teachers will skip if the class had been dumbed down. This is where the market fails to allocate resources correctly. Situations where this arises are : imperfect information, externalizes, in deterministic events and game theory and are subjects of more advanced economics courses.

Also we don't exactly live in a free market as described by Adam Smith. If we lived in such a world, free market is indeed a very good way to resolve a lot of these. We live in a very special form of market known as Capitalism. M-> C- >M' .
 
blam said:
I consider myself to be from the extreme left and progressive. However, this decision sickens me.

Why is it that affirmative action is raced based? I do not see any logic why a person of color whose dad is in the top 1% should stand to benefit from affirmative action.

As a progressive, I am all in favor of helping students who are not from well to do families to be given a helping hand when it comes to admissions. So I am 100% in favor of affirmative action based on income and opportunities available.

The problem with such policies is it now creates a schism between the working class folks. Now the not well to do white folks will be driven away from Democratic party because they are the ones who stand the most to lose from this. Ha! Another tactic by the top 1%to divide the working class based on racial lines by reintroducing affirmative action based on race instead of income levels?

www.cnn.com

University of California votes to restore affirmative action nearly 24 years after it was outlawed | CNN

The University of California has voted to restore affirmative action in hopes of diversifying its student body.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Why do you think someone of lower means shouldn't have to pay tuition and others should?
 
The Outlaw said:
Why do you think someone of lower means shouldn't have to pay tuition and others should?
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This is off topic. NO one is arguing for free tuition or not. But that if one wants to go to a different high school, our current system requires you to be in a specific zipcode or if private, pay for it. This means that those without the means have to go to public schools. Our other friend is suggesting that free market will fix it and I bring up one point which is it takes money to make these choices. A better way would be to just knowledge to purchase admissions, like a test, those who score the highest get into the best high schools.
 
blam said:
This is off topic. NO one is arguing for free tuition or not. But that if one wants to go to a different high school, our current system requires you to be in a specific zipcode or if private, pay for it. This means that those without the means have to go to public schools. Our other friend is suggesting that free market will fix it and I bring up one point which is it takes money to make these choices. A better way would be to just knowledge to purchase admissions, like a test, those who score the highest get into the best high schools.
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You brought it up... now it's off topic? You can always request a transfer or find a charter school. You won't necessarily get it, but if a kid is in a shitty school, chances are the entire district is shitty. So the high school 2 miles the other direction isn't likely to be better and, if you're in that shitty district to begin with, you don't have the means to travel far anyway. How would "those with the best test scores" get to a high school 30 minutes away? Not an option for most kids. If there was 1 great school, wouldn't everybody want to be there? Then how do you decide who gets in? Does someone get in over a higher performing kid because of ethnicity? Hardship? Slippery slope that's already FUBAR'd.
 
The Outlaw said:
If there was 1 great school, wouldn't everybody want to be there? Then how do you decide who gets in?
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Like Stuyvesant high, test scores. Its much better than our current system: zipcodes. It is because of zipcodes that I support affirmative action based on income levels.
 
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