Wez
DA
Am I the only one confused by each tournament deciding to call the flights something different?
United Cup 2016
- Thread starter therealVIN
- Start date
Am I the only one confused by each tournament deciding to call the flights something different?
therealVIN
SILVER
Wez
DA
Ok, but it's different then Slammers Players Cup flights, which are different than Surf Cup flights, which are different from Pat's Cup flights, etc.
The efficient market model doesn't work here. For it to work, the market has to be of sufficient size, participants have to act rationally, there has to be equal access to information, resources, etc.
I asked Vin why Friday check in was necessary. His response seemed to be that the large number of teams made it "mandatory." Yet he only had half a dozen people work at check in. We had to wait 30 minutes in line. How's that logical? You expect him to rationally respond to the market? Access to fields gives that club an advantage in competing for tournament dollars, but that advantage can only go so far. As an example do I need tell you how a once almighty club almost went out of business?
It's certainly true that it is not as efficient as it could be for a variety of reasons - size of market, the repeat player difficulty (TAs and coaches turn over frequently in many places), profit motive issues - but that just reflects the degree of efficiency and the length of time for market equilibrium to start to develop. There's probably no such thing as a truly efficient market anywhere, as behavioral economists have demonstrated. For efficiency not to apply at all, though, there would need to be more monopoly powers than exist today.
Not surprisingly, evidence of the market reacting against Friday night check-in already exists. I've been in this world long enough to remember when most tourneys had Friday night check-ins. Now, not only do most NOT have Friday night check-ins, but tournaments routinely advertise that they don't require Friday night check-in, which used to be a real advantage, but has become less so since most tournaments don't anymore. Plus, the development of multi-field complexes, particularly at Silverlakes in Norco, have reduced the logistical need for Friday night check-in, which takes away one market barrier to change (and is evidence of the market moving to satisfy need, since Silverlakes is private development). Finally, there is evidence that the market has already started to provide alternatives to tournaments altogether (which, in part, may be a reaction to the cost and time commitment that a Friday night check-in requirement entails). For example, many of the age group pages on the Hollywood FC Scrimmage facebook site are heavily subscribed and actively used. In addition, round robins have become quite common and some clubs have gone the next step to organize 3 game mini-tournaments in one or two age groups with a relatively low reg fee ($250) and no trophies. One advantage to these round robins is that you can delay commitment until you know who else is participating, thereby assuring 2-3 strong games, rather than rolling the dice with a tournament. That has traditionally been one of the advantages of a big tournament -- assurance of appropriate high-level competition. Plus, $80 bucks for round robin ref fees, or even $160 for ref and field fees, sure beats $700-$1000 for the tournament pin/medal. Small Spring Leagues on single field sites are also more common, as teams see them as more economical and beneficial than paying twice the amount to pay half the games over a longer period of time. Of course, none of this is replacing tournaments or Friday check-in altogether, but given the growth in the club environment in just 10 years, it explains why those tournaments are dwindling and why registration hasn't exploded in tournaments in the aggregate to match the change in the number of teams and clubs. It may be slow and in fits and starts, but the market is clearly working on this issue.
Last edited:
Why do you insist on using the market model which you don't seem to know much about? How's it relevant in any case? Did espola hijack your account?
Check in freezes the roster, if it is a purpose.
That's funny. Economics smak from an anonymous internet soccer forum participant. Not sure why you would insist on denying the existence of a market or the existence of market forces either, especially with unsupported categorical statements, but if it makes you feel better, go for it. I don't need this.
For the original poster, bottom line is that there are growing alternatives to Friday night check-ins if you consider that a deal breaker.
Let me just use one example to show the fallacies of your pseudo intellectual "analysis." For economies of large scale to apply, there has to be cost savings. Tournaments are staffed by volunteer parents, so there's no cost to speak of in the first place, much less cost savings between Friday and Saturday check ins. Really pretty elementary stuff. Large multi-field complexes have nothing to do with check ins, as check ins don't have to be at a central location. They can be done at various venues.
Bottom line for us volunteer team managers is that we want more options for our teams. Most of us wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours for our teams, if Friday check in serves a purpose. For this reason I asked Vin why it was mandatory. How your long-winded and flawed "analysis" is relevant is beyond me.
Last edited:
A Tournament can use less parent volunteers for a Friday check in, same apply's to one venue. It is easy to send match reports to one location versus dividing them out to various locations. Check in is a better smoother process for a tournament if done at one location, whether that is Friday or Saturday AM. You have more control to make sure everyone is checked in and has their tournament stuff.
Why is checkin required you ask? Insurance plain and simple. The player card gives the player supplemental insurance. Cal South requires per their sanctioning that all teams are checked in, to verify players cards for insurance and medical release forms. People think it is for cheating, nope mostly insurance. It is just a coincidence it helps with cheating.
outside!
DA
I don't think it does make that much sense. Every event field has a field marshal that checks teams into each game anyway. The logistics of setting up the field marshal tent doesn't change that much by having to also include a few boxes with the tournament swag. The difference in volunteer hours to set up a centralized Friday night check-in versus adding some functionality to field marshal tents that will be setup either way is not that big of a difference. Distribute the some of the Friday night volunteers to help out with field check-ins. Require the team manager to check their team in Saturday morning (even if they have an afternoon game). The only real reason for Friday night check in is to get a few extra hotel night kickbacks. As a volunteer who has helped with both types of check in scenarios, field check in was easier. As a former team manager, I hated Friday night check in (especially San Diego United's tournament where they made me pay for parking!). As an aside, game day check in is also better for the environment since it results in fewer miles driven. Given the size of some tournaments, this is not insignificant.
Your answer doesn't make sense to me.
I really don't care if check in is required. My question is "What can be done Friday that can't be done Saturday?"
How do you have more control when it's at one location? Tournament directors don't do the check ins. They answer questions. The only difference is whether it's done in person or over the phone. A tournament actually use more parent volunteer hours for a Friday check in, as field marshals have to be there Saturdays anyways. I've worked at tournaments too. But of course, to tournaments, that's probably not a big consideration.
Maybe the refs would actually check the cards- or maybe not-the volunteers didn't even check card against player-refs aware of older kids playing down and now big deal.......
Regarding medals and trophies, yes. The G00 Superliga Final ended up being the last game at The Ramch. It was explained to us that the engraver made a mistake and that replacement trophies and medals will be provided.
Soccer Life Academy had 3 teams win championships and all three teams had 2015 medals and trophies.
Not because we won, but the United leadership was very helpful and the volunteers I came into contact with as a TA were all friendly and helpful.
Soccer Life Academy had 3 teams win championships and all three teams had 2015 medals and trophies.
Not because we won, but the United leadership was very helpful and the volunteers I came into contact with as a TA were all friendly and helpful.