UNION!

[Hüsker Dü]

Great comment! "The wealthy aren't concerned with labor issues" is exactly the point. Here's a quote from the article in the Atlantic I shared:
"In 2020, Joe Biden won just 500 or so counties—but together they account for 71 percent of American economic activity, according to the Brookings Institution. Donald Trump won more than 2,500 counties that together generate only 29 percent of that activity."

If you forget about the hand waving and teeth gnashing and look at where the votes are coming from- the democratic party represents the wealthiest parts of the nation. Hence their interest in advancing social issues and not unions- because as you say the wealthy don't care about labor issues.

Do you feel the hierarchy of the GOP and their donors care about labor concerns? Key part of the article says trump “made them feel like” they were being included. Blowing smoke is blowing smoke, trumpism is not the answer. There is no perfect messenger, but blatant and admitted hypocrisy turns the tuned in off, even while the emotionally aroused chant the name.

 

[tenacious]

Do you feel the hierarchy of the GOP and their donors care about labor concerns? Key part of the article says trump “made them feel like” they were being included. Blowing smoke is blowing smoke, trumpism is not the answer. There is no perfect messenger, but blatant and admitted hypocrisy turns the tuned in off, even while the emotionally aroused chant the name.

I highly doubt the wealthy elites in the Republican party care about labor concerns anymore then the wealthy elite Democrats in Silicon Valley and New York City. Or to put it differently, who employs more union labor Charles Koch, Jeff Bezos, Jamie Dimond or Jack Dorsey? Looking at how blue collar non-college educated voters have been streaming out of the democratic party in recent years (i.e. the demo union laborers are in)... I guess we know who they see as the problem.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

I highly doubt the wealthy elites in the Republican party care about labor concerns anymore then the wealthy elite Democrats in Silicon Valley and New York City. Or to put it differently, who employs more union labor Charles Koch, Jeff Bezos, Jamie Dimond or Jack Dorsey? Looking at how blue collar non-college educated voters have been streaming out of the democratic party in recent years (i.e. the demo union laborers are in)... I guess we know who they see as the problem.

As is often said in here “politicians lie” while ignoring the lies we want to hear. When I hear “we are the best party for the ______” fill in the blank or “what the American people want is _____” again fill in the blank, it makes me cringe, and the group that claims they have their finger on the pulse, and the exclusive on it, of the American people the most is Republicans. Democrats try to tell Americans what they think the American people need, as a whole, while Republicans try to tell Americans what their opinion should to fit in. So it’s we want to try this because we believe it will help vs you should think like us to be a real American.

 

[tenacious]

As is often said in here “politicians lie” while ignoring the lies we want to hear. When I hear “we are the best party for the ______” fill in the blank or “what the American people want is _____” again fill in the blank, it makes me cringe, and the group that claims they have their finger on the pulse, and the exclusive on it, of the American people the most is Republicans. Democrats try to tell Americans what they think the American people need, as a whole, while Republicans try to tell Americans what their opinion should to fit in. So it’s we want to try this because we believe it will help vs you should think like us to be a real American.

Several years back I would have agreed with your assessment and conclusions. However, post-defund the police and now watching how dems manage the boarder, Afghanistan and abandoning unions... and my opinion of their leadership could be summed up as underwhelmed. And now I hear Bernie and Pelosi talking about spending $3.5 trillion on 'human infrastructure' and it makes me uncomfortable that this too is going to end up another big expensive mess. I don't trust the folks running the democratic party anymore and as someone who used to be a reliable vote for them- well l would sum up my current sentiment as more along the lines of I want off the crazy train.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Several years back I would have agreed with your assessment and conclusions. However, post-defund the police and now watching how dems manage the boarder, Afghanistan and abandoning unions... and my opinion of their leadership could be summed up as underwhelmed. And now I hear Bernie and Pelosi talking about spending $3.5 trillion on 'human infrastructure' and it makes me uncomfortable that this too is going to end up another big expensive mess. I don't trust the folks running the democratic party anymore and as someone who used to be a reliable vote for them- well l would sum up my current sentiment as more along the lines of I want off the crazy train.

Seems you are being influenced by some t-party source. Running with the “defund the police” narrative that was a silly idea that the only place it ever had any traction was in rightwing talking points . . . and then of course your misspelling border . . . which is a legacy project as is Afghanistan. No one has ever left Afghanistan victorious.

 

[espola]

Seems you are being influenced by some t-party source. Running with the “defund the police” narrative that was a silly idea that the only place it ever had any traction was in rightwing talking points . . . and then of course your misspelling border . . . which is a legacy project as is Afghanistan. No one has ever left Afghanistan victorious.

I'm not sure if I understand the news correctly, but it looks like China might be the next to try its hand there. That could be interesting (if any news is allowed out of there).

 

[tenacious]

Seems you are being influenced by some t-party source. Running with the “defund the police” narrative that was a silly idea that the only place it ever had any traction was in rightwing talking points . . . and then of course your misspelling border . . . which is a legacy project as is Afghanistan. No one has ever left Afghanistan victorious.

For me, I don't think this is about Trump. It's about how I live here in Manhattan (ground zero for progressivism in America) and I have watched how 'defund the police' made the city less safe with my own eyes. It's about declining union membership numbers, or any sort of plan to ensure we have a strong middle class (other than handouts). It's about watching what's happening in Afghanistan and bracing myself for the beheadings that are soon to follow.

It's all just gotten to be too much for me.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

For me, I don't think this is about Trump. It's about how I live here in Manhattan (ground zero for progressivism in America) and I have watched how 'defund the police' made the city less safe with my own eyes. It's about declining union membership numbers, or any sort of plan to ensure we have a strong middle class (other than handouts). It's about watching what's happening in Afghanistan and bracing myself for the beheadings that are soon to follow.

It's all just gotten to be too much for me.

Both trump and Biden have blood on their hands. Our military looks weak and disorganized, our intelligence has failed us. Dark times for sure. Not a failure of party, a failure of our entire military and diplomatic systems. We suck!

 

[tenacious]

Both trump and Biden have blood on their hands. Our military looks weak and disorganized, our intelligence has failed us. Dark times for sure. Not a failure of party, a failure of our entire military and diplomatic systems. We suck!

I agree. Things are a mess, and they've been a mess for a while now.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

“Committed democrat”? Lol! I was going to vote for McCain until Palin opened her mouth. Both sides are owned. I simply abhor blatant and, apparently, deliberate ignorance. Ignorance as a virtue is appalling. Most of my union brothers and sisters have continued to support democrats as the alternative is obviously simply playing to the room and at their heart are deeply anti-union, wolf in sheep’s clothing. The wealthy aren’t concerned with labor issues unless it affects their bottom line. I have had many generous offers to run work for non-union companies and have seen how they operate and I will say America will truly regress if that became the norm. Without labor their is no wealth.

Mama Du ask a good question

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Don’t Envy Rihanna’s Billion Dollar Empire. Celebrate It Rihanna’s rise from a poor immigrant from Barbados to global star to billionaire entrepreneur reveals the enduring power and reality of the American Dream.

 

[crush]

@ Bruddah IZ and those looking to cut out meat or at least try and cut back a little. Check out Crush's latest tasty treat brother & sisters. This right here is a stuffed extra big red bell pepper. Topped with avocado, cilantro & my special sauce mixed all togethers. Guess what I stuffed it with Bruddah?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

@ Bruddah IZ and those looking to cut out meat or at least try and cut back a little. Check out Crush's latest tasty treat brother & sisters. This right here is a stuffed extra big red bell pepper. Topped with avocado, cilantro & my special sauce mixed all togethers. Guess what I stuffed it with Bruddah?

View attachment 11441

Eggs?

 

[crush]

Eggs?

Hell no bro. We dont eat any animals we haven't seen with our own eyes and how they were treated. No bueno bro. Guess again. Look at the crunchy kind of burned ((really my wife's fav part)) part at the top?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Hell no bro. We dont eat any animals we haven't seen with our own eyes and how they were treated. No bueno bro. Guess again. Look at the crunchy kind of burned ((really my wife's fav part)) part at the top?

Potatoes?

 

[crush]

Potatoes?

Yes sir. Garlic mashed with onions.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Labor unions didn't bring you this or any other weekend

My father was a Teamster for 15 years. I grew up in a working-class household.

And I don't believe the propaganda for a second.

"The Weekend: Brought to You by Labor Unions," reads the bumper sticker.

I see. So those Third World countries looking to escape poverty and enjoy additional leisure just need...some labor unions?

(What's the point of foreign aid, then? Why don't we just save ourselves the money and just tell these countries to unionize instead?)

Until society grows wealthy enough, all the labor unions in the world can't make it possible to take two days a week off from work.

Can you imagine, in the primitive economies of 300 years ago, agitating for a shorter work week? People would have thought you insane.

With little capital, and with most goods produced by hand, it takes all the labor power all the hours it can spare just to make life barely livable.

That's why people worked long hours in terrible conditions in the past (and why they do in the Third World today). Not because short men with white mustaches and a monocle took delight in oppressing them.

What emancipated people from these dehumanizing conditions were capital goods and the market economy. With workers vastly more productive than before, thanks to the assistance of machines, physical output was multiplied in quantity and quality many, many times over. This greater abundance put downward pressure on prices relative to wage rates, and people's standard of living rose. Their paychecks could buy more stuff now, because there was vastly more stuff in existence.

And at that time they began to opt for more leisure and more pleasant working conditions rather than more cash.

If you ask people who work in sweatshops today if they'd prefer to have (1) more pleasant conditions (or fewer working hours) but (2) less take-home pay, they overwhelmingly say no.

Professor Ben Powell of Texas Tech University actually bothered to ask them. (Imagine that: he bothered to ask, rather than assuming he knew what was best for them!) And 90+% of them said that regardless of what Western do-gooders thought they should want, they preferred the money.

Meanwhile, American workers had the eight-hour-day well before their much more heavily unionized counterparts in Europe did, and they earned higher wages. Unionism never accounted for more than a third of the American labor force, and that was at its height.

So whatever your kids' teachers are crediting unions for, just roll your eyes.

 

[crush]

Labor unions didn't bring you this or any other weekend

My father was a Teamster for 15 years. I grew up in a working-class household.

And I don't believe the propaganda for a second.

"The Weekend: Brought to You by Labor Unions," reads the bumper sticker.

I see. So those Third World countries looking to escape poverty and enjoy additional leisure just need...some labor unions?

(What's the point of foreign aid, then? Why don't we just save ourselves the money and just tell these countries to unionize instead?)

Until society grows wealthy enough, all the labor unions in the world can't make it possible to take two days a week off from work.

Can you imagine, in the primitive economies of 300 years ago, agitating for a shorter work week? People would have thought you insane.

With little capital, and with most goods produced by hand, it takes all the labor power all the hours it can spare just to make life barely livable.

That's why people worked long hours in terrible conditions in the past (and why they do in the Third World today). Not because short men with white mustaches and a monocle took delight in oppressing them.

What emancipated people from these dehumanizing conditions were capital goods and the market economy. With workers vastly more productive than before, thanks to the assistance of machines, physical output was multiplied in quantity and quality many, many times over. This greater abundance put downward pressure on prices relative to wage rates, and people's standard of living rose. Their paychecks could buy more stuff now, because there was vastly more stuff in existence.

And at that time they began to opt for more leisure and more pleasant working conditions rather than more cash.

If you ask people who work in sweatshops today if they'd prefer to have (1) more pleasant conditions (or fewer working hours) but (2) less take-home pay, they overwhelmingly say no.

Professor Ben Powell of Texas Tech University actually bothered to ask them. (Imagine that: he bothered to ask, rather than assuming he knew what was best for them!) And 90+% of them said that regardless of what Western do-gooders thought they should want, they preferred the money.

Meanwhile, American workers had the eight-hour-day well before their much more heavily unionized counterparts in Europe did, and they earned higher wages. Unionism never accounted for more than a third of the American labor force, and that was at its height.

So whatever your kids' teachers are crediting unions for, just roll your eyes.

The Union Wheel my pal is on. Great guy but he is not free at all. He must fall in line with da boss or else.

 

[crush]

 

[Hüsker Dü]

I agree. Things are a mess, and they've been a mess for a while now.

Decimating the State Department (and freeing 5,000 Taliban) didn’t help and actually looks quite suspect in light of current events (and the rhetoric that ignores those actions).