Soccerfan2
GOLD
We might have different perspectives on this one.
U15/05 Girls Academy/ECNL WNT Pool
- Thread starter gotothebushes
- Start date
gotothebushes
GOLD
@Soccerfan2- I have no facts to back this up. Its just my opinion and things I've heard over the years. I could be totally wrong and I hope I am. Both clubs should have the best girls representing there clubs. These girls work to hard not to get an invite because we all know 70% of players on these list won't be around at U19/U20. So let these girls enjoy these little opportunities and hopefully the experience will turn these women into great college students. That should be there end goal.
The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.
US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.
It is also true that there much greater opportunities for boys that can justify the sacrifices demanded by the DA pathway (such as no HS soccer), both in terms of the number of professional opportunities and the quality of them (I.e. $$$). For girls, it's the same sacrifice but without the same sized rewards at the end. There's far fewer pro opportunities and obviously much less money to be made for all but genuine unicorns.
The powers that be don't care about that as they're required to 1) try and produce winning YNT teams, and 2) not get sued because should they support a pathway for boys and not girls.
Soccerfan2
GOLD
I notice that there are no LAFC Slammers players on the 2020 id2 roster either. Does it make sense to expect that players that aren’t sorted to the top of the ECNL group (where they don’t even have to compete w DA players) should expect to go through to YNT?
Where do you get the mistaken idea that the top players in ECNL go to id2?
Soccerfan2
GOLD
It must be US Soccer and the DA preventing it...
Obviously you can't/won't answer the question, but nice strawman there and to attempt to deflect. Keep drinking the kool aid.
To expand on that, there is an entirely new staff that has only been in place for a few months....they have to start somewhere
Sure. But I think if playing on a YNT is a player's primary goal, the pathway that will likely maximize the possibility is quite clear. There are very valid reasons not to choose it (and for many unfortunately the DA isn't even an option). But for the most part, I do think people should limit the whining about the impact their own personal decisions are having on themselves when the pros and cons of that decision are perfectly obvious.
Soccerfan2
GOLD
My point is just that there is always selection bias in any system. If there were some obvious standout players that got passed over on YNT due to politics or whatever, why don’t those players show up elsewhere? I see just 4 players from that team in ODP and none in id2. Are they opting out? I do remember one player from that team from ODP when the girls were younger. Mine is mostly an outsider’s perspective as I don’t know the SoCal player pool well enough. Maybe there is valid answer to this question.
I can tell you that having had a close up view of the process in NorCal, the two obvious standout players in this age group were picked out early (one before she even played DA and the other was ECNL). After that, it’s not so obvious, and certainly the DA selection bias is going to effect choices from that less than obvious group.
BC!!! I don;t like your common sense at all Timmyh. Who determines "who will be the best player" of the future that has potential? There are some big time HS School soccer boys out of Texas that have done very well for themselves in the pros. They can;t afford private school so their locked out of the DA as well. HS Soccer is important to some of us. Ramos is down there now too. The men SUCK if you haven;t heard, so any reference to their debacle as any success of DA is bad imo. What has the DA produced for the men sir? I can;t watch MLS for obvious reasons. The woman are proven winners and I believe regardless of DA or ECNL players, they will win with the olders. It;s funny to hear you share how one player is different than the other. My dd has done both DA and ECNL. The top top players who are hard core and actually have a slight chance to be world-class soccer players will always be good. Plus, 4 days week is a joke and most are not really doing it. Trust me!!! The only ones are the ones on the list. My dd does two days week with ECNL, plus privates, (Jason SDA) and the great Von Ronham out of Denmark and then a personal speed and nutritionist specialist that my dd sees once a week to watch what shes eating and make sure she keeps her speed. On top of that, she runs and dribbles on the beach with her soccer ball three times a week. And to think she came from being a Part Time Player in the DA all the way to a starter on ECNL. I'm proud of how hard she has worked and blossomed into the player she is today. Coach Ronham believes with continued hard work she might finally get her call up to the training center and get another try......lol
gotothebushes
GOLD
Wait? Your dd does two days week with ECNL, plus privates, (Jason SDA) and then finds time for a personal speed and nutritionist specialist once a week to watch what shes eating and make sure she keeps her speed. On top of that, she runs and dribbles on the beach with her soccer ball three times a week? Sounds like 4 days a week to me and then some! Becareful not to over train. Glad she’s found a home.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Yes, this is pretty much my perspective. US soccer has a strong incentive to select their players from their DA program.
oh canada
GOLD
Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world. There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players. Just US Soccer saying so. In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates. Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc. Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track). Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.
The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys. But that is beginning to change as well.
ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams. Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year. Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level. One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league. For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book. Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other. That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.
PS - Don't forget to wash your hands
All this is so easy to figure out. The non competitive dads who never really fought for a spot on a team, try and bring in really stupid arguments. Like others have said, we will all look back and see how and who the scouts picked. Crap, my dd chose HS Soccer and is no longer developable. She went to one TC Camp back in 2016 and was never invited back from the TC Camp Director and US National team staff member ,plus he was the head Doc at the DA Girls Academy in San Diego.
futboldad1
PREMIER
Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world. There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players. Just US Soccer saying so. In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates. Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc. Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track). Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.
The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys. But that is beginning to change as well.
ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams. Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year. Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level. One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league. For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book. Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other. That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.
PS - Don't forget to wash your hands
Great post.....one point to add about the boys, the DA has not made them world class or even close to it as of yet....they're better than than the BoysECNL teams as they have much better prospects and players, hs is not as valued socially, plus there is a pathway to play in the MLS or beyond.....so many differences with girls and boys routes to the top it's hard to compare.....
Soccerfan2
GOLD
I agree that neither league is an inherently better development environment. ECNL hyped up the high school option after DA emerged to give itself a competitive advantage. DA hyped up it’s own system. Both environments might or might not be superior development environments based on a number or other outside factors (coaching, individual player motivation, what the kid does outside of club, etc, etc).Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world. There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players. Just US Soccer saying so. In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates. Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc. Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track). Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.
The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys. But that is beginning to change as well.
ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams. Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year. Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level. One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league. For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book. Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other. That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.
PS - Don't forget to wash your hands
If a kid is so obviously head and shoulders above everyone else, YNT will pick them out. They’re not going to turn them away because they play ECNL.
If a kid is a top player, very comparable to many other top players, Timmy is right! Playing in the DA is going to give them a big advantage for YNT selection in the short term both because they are more easily seen by US Soccer scouts at DA games and events and because US soccer has invested in a system that they want to succeed.
YNT always does and will continue to miss some outstanding players, and some will emerge on the college scene and show up in the YNT pool later. But, I think what you will continue to see happen over the next few years is that the powerhouse colleges will primarily keep selecting players from YNT for their starting rosters. The reason for this is not because the US soccer DA machine is keeping other players out - it’s because there are a lot of really great players out there and most of them are interchangeable. If the YNT/WNT pool has a ton of turnover at college age level because all these exceptional ECNL players got the shaft when they were younger, I’ll eat my words.
Great stuff. When the 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023s all are balling in college, we can all look back and do a social experience and see how it's all going. That's why Friday the 13th will be it for me until June 15th. Nothing much more to say until then. We see how the ynt picks are now made and I except that as a paying customer. It sucks. It's time to put up or shut up
shales1002
GOLD
Unfortunately, you will be eating your words.