Tudela LA FC G05 white

According to the SOCAL contract, the sanction for not participating in all the NPL events is supposed to be losing NPL status the following year. Which, fine. We would have taken that hit. Forfeiting the entire season we'd just played was a choice--and, to me, a dangerously short-sighted one because (as you say) it opened the door to speculation.

Our club appreciates the opportunities SOCAL has given us; at the same time, we feel like we've been a pretty good ambassador for the SOCAL brand. We'll have girls playing in top college programs next year; we have girls in national team pools. I don't think the league wants to cast doubt on the integrity of our club, but that's what they've done. We're discussing a remedy.

Isn't NPL currently only halfway through the regular season with Spring being the other half? Will the future games also be forfeited in Spring to, as another poster said, "true it up" because it would otherwise unfairly imbalance the results?

No offense intended to Tudela but it isn't exactly a secret that SCDSL/NPL doesn't provide equivalent college exposure. The other serious competitor at G07 last year left for Elite 64. It had to be known Tudela would not have appropriate competition in SCDSL. I mean, you have to take the GA opportunity when presented, so that's a tough choice that you have to make. But, I'm not going to Taco Bell and complaining that the nacho cheese is runny. I chose to eat at Taco Bell and I got Taco Bell.
 
Uninvested party here, but if I were KJR - I'm not even sure I'd worry about getting the games reinstated. The only rankings system that matters now discounts forfeits entirely, so their teams aren't being penalized ratings-wise - other than not having the wins recorded. If you look at the tables of what is left, and add the current ratings of all teams, it shows some interesting data.

Here is the 2005 table:

Tudela 05.jpg

Here is the 2007 table:

Tudela 07.jpg

Even with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2007 Girls are still rated higher than every team in the league - all of which are actually 2006. And with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2005 Girls remain rated higher than every team in the league save 1.

Having the league try and punish them by flipping everything to forfeits doesn't really have the effect the league is hoping for. It's still obvious to all the relative strength of these teams - and they should be wished good luck as they leave the rest of these teams in the rear view.
 
Uninvested party here, but if I were KJR - I'm not even sure I'd worry about getting the games reinstated. The only rankings system that matters now discounts forfeits entirely, so their teams aren't being penalized ratings-wise - other than not having the wins recorded. If you look at the tables of what is left, and add the current ratings of all teams, it shows some interesting data.

Here is the 2005 table:

View attachment 15035

Here is the 2007 table:

View attachment 15037

Even with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2007 Girls are still rated higher than every team in the league - all of which are actually 2006. And with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2005 Girls remain rated higher than every team in the league save 1.

Having the league try and punish them by flipping everything to forfeits doesn't really have the effect the league is hoping for. It's still obvious to all the relative strength of these teams - and they should be wished good luck as they leave the rest of these teams in the rear view.

Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85. Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it. Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.
 
Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85. Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it. Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.

All good points. I sent a note to Youth Soccer Rankings about the forfeits and he said it would have affected the model so he removed them completely. The problem is that it still dropped the teams about 50 places or so. It was a little frustrating because every time wewon it still dropped our positions because of the team ratings. we will see if at least the original scores can be reported.

I understand a boys team had the same thing happen.
 
Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85. Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it. Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.

I certainly get where you're coming from. If it helps, keep in mind that these rankings are ephemeral anyway, and 7 months after the team plays its last game, the team shows unranked with no rating. Having the recent games restored for the 05's, and therefore the correct ratings restored, would only be a pretty temporary situation for a team that isn't playing much longer. The girls know what they accomplished, and will remember that much, much longer than 7 months. For the 07's - if they are still playing - they will be right back where they belong in the ratings 8-10 games from now.

It was a little frustrating because every time we won it still dropped our positions because of the team ratings. we will see if at least the original scores can be reported.

That's par for the course, in a ratings system that weights team quality by its own performance over time. A win doesn't mean much if the opponent is significantly inferior.

I understand a boys team had the same thing happen.

I see 3 teams in Discovery (boys) that show similar to what happened to Tudela.

Rangers FC Rangers FC B2009 White NPL Discovery
B08 NPL SD Drop
B08 NPL DROP

All of them show only 0-1 losses. By the names, it's certainly possible that the last two weren't "real" teams by some point, as all of their opponents were given a 1-0 bye (rather than explicitly saying "forfeit", as with the Rangers).
 
We believe we know who started and is trying to spread this rumor. It's so absurd it's almost not worth responding, but I feel obligated to say something in defense of the club.

Our 05s and 07s both went undefeated and won their SOCAL Discovery NPL divisions (the 07s played up as 06s.) Neither team used college or non-league players (but the girls are flattered--thanks.) Both qualified for the playoff this weekend, however neither team was going to be available to play in Colorado next July. Our 05s will have graduated high school; some will have jobs, some will be traveling, and some will be preparing for their college preseasons. We have a small team, so losing even a couple of players makes it impractical for us to compete. Our 07s will be in a GA showcase next summer, and it's a financial burden for those families to do two travel events back-to-back.

We could have just played this weekend, maybe/probably gone through, then pulled out of nationals early next year. But, in an effort to be respectful to the league (and to the other teams in our divisions) we informed Michelle Chesters that we would rather give the second place teams the opportunity to take our spots. Michelle's response was to inform us that we had violated the terms of our commitment to NPL and that she would forfeit all of our games. Shortly after, we saw both of our teams' records flipped. I could post the emails but will refrain for now.

I appreciate that Michelle has a duty to protect her league. For two years, that has been our interest as well. We've done two hour drives to beat teams 11-0 on crap fields with one ref with no complaint. We let SOCAL use our highlights on their socials and have tried to represent the league as well as we could. When our girls went through college recruiting at schools like Notre Dame, Princeton, and TCU, playing in Discovery NPL was something they had to overcome. They had to prove their quality despite the league, because the top college programs just want to see ECNL or GA. But, again, we protected SOCAL.

But we also have a duty to our families—many of whom have very limited financial means—to provide the best possible platform for our players who want to play in college and beyond. Despite its best intentions (and sales pitch) SOCAL Discovery NPL is not a college scout magnet. If our 07s can only take one trip next summer, we have to choose the one that will feature the highest level of competition and exposure. Anything less would be sacrificing our players’ dreams out of loyalty to a league that forfeited some of our games this year when LAUSD canceled all its permits--without giving us a chance to reschedule them.

As I've said here before, we're a small club doing our best to do youth soccer better. We're not perfect, but we try to do things the right way. That's why we reached out to Michelle before this weekend, rather than wait until afterwards. Although I guess we could have just gone to Silverlakes and told the girls to tank the game on Saturday. Would that have been a better message?

Ultimately, our club is fine. We have some extraordinary girls who develop into incredible soccer players. Again, nice to know we can be accused of cheating by teams who lose to us when our Notre Dame and Princeton recruits aren't even playing. So the people who have been punished by this are the girls, who worked hard, played fair, and went undefeated--and don't understand why their records now say the opposite.

But youth soccer is all about the kids, right?

(@Dominic, if I can prove that this is all bullshit, can we remove this ridiculous, borderline libelous thread?)
There's no borderline about it. If the above allegations against Tudela are untrue you have a viable case for defamation. It's just crazy how people jump to conclusions based on rumors.
 
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KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated. But let's be clear. When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected. It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly. It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events. It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events. And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.

KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events. For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season. And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament. The Club has a lot of tryout players. Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams. The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster. Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.

I sympathize with Tudela's situation. The Club desires to play in the ECNL but cannot gain access, so it is stuck in the Discovery League, which it disdains. But if you are going to play in a league, you need to follow the rules and accept the consequences when you don't.

Here, Tudela gained associate status with the GA at some point after it put teams in the Discovery League. Now it is favoring a GA tournament over a Discovery League tournament. I get it; Tudela believes the GA tournament will give it greater exposure. Still, Tudela made a conscious choice to turn its back on a prior commitment.
KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated. But let's be clear. When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected. It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly. It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events. It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events. And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.

KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events. For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season. And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament. The Club has a lot of tryout players. Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams. The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster. Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.

I sympathize with Tudela's situation. The Club desires to play in the ECNL but cannot gain access, so it is stuck in the Discovery League, which it disdains. But if you are going to play in a league, you need to follow the rules and accept the consequences when you don't.

Here, Tudela gained associate status with the GA at some point after it put teams in the Discovery League. Now it is favoring a GA tournament over a Discovery League tournament. I get it; Tudela believes the GA tournament will give it greater exposure. Still, Tudela made a conscious choice to turn its back on a prior commitment.
Wow, his club (not to mention the children on his teams) were apparently defamed egregiously, and when he posts the truth to correct the record, people blame him for complaining about something that he never would have even brought up except that it became necessary to clear the names of the innocent players on his teams. Tudela - keep fighting the good fight!
 
Ahh ... now you are raising the stakes to make it personal by naming me and denigrating my teams.[*] And just a few posts ago you were patting yourself on the back for always trying to do the right thing.

I view your response as juvenile, and it suggests my arguments resonate. Otherwise you would not stoop to that level of rhetoric.

If your club is really leaving the Discovery League, then that is the right decision, and I applaud your club for taking the step. I wish your club and your teams all the best in the future.

(*For the record, my current G2009 team is being promoted into the Discovery League next year, having taken 1st place in its Flight 1 bracket. We don't claim to be the best of all possible teams, but I am very proud of its players and their performance.)
But you sound like a jerk, to be honest, and the Tudela person sounds reasonable. Maybe take a break from posting for a couple days to cool off.
 
Why do we care about rankings? I don't think college coaches/scouts care what a team's rank is.
This has already been discussed a lot on the forum over the years, but there’s a bunch of reasons. Rankings are a fun diversion and conversation topic for us parents, and even some of the older players. They can be a useful scouting tool to help size up unfamiliar opponents. And they are used by many tournaments/showcases to seed their brackets. For a small club like Tudela FC that has (until recently) been locked out of the top leagues like ECNL and GA, the rankings are a nice way to measure ourselves against the top teams we might not get to play against. And being highly ranked for a long period of time is a great reward and recognition and lends some legitimacy to our team and club. You might be right about college coaches, but when you are trying to get your kid recruited and they have made the choice to play for a small, lesser known club rather than a ECNL/GA megaclub, trust me, every little bit of legitimacy is huge.
 
Isn't NPL currently only halfway through the regular season with Spring being the other half? Will the future games also be forfeited in Spring to, as another poster said, "true it up" because it would otherwise unfairly imbalance the results?

No offense intended to Tudela but it isn't exactly a secret that SCDSL/NPL doesn't provide equivalent college exposure. The other serious competitor at G07 last year left for Elite 64. It had to be known Tudela would not have appropriate competition in SCDSL. I mean, you have to take the GA opportunity when presented, so that's a tough choice that you have to make. But, I'm not going to Taco Bell and complaining that the nacho cheese is runny. I chose to eat at Taco Bell and I got Taco Bell.
No, the older's season has ended with the playoffs this weekend. There is no 2nd half of the season, this is it. After Thanksgiving, the olders break for high school soccer then when that's over, I believe it's the State Cup and tournaments until the end of the school year. Everything basically comes to an end in July for the U19s.
 
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In SoCal, particularly, it's ridiculous that our U8s drive 3-4 hours for a one-hour game in Bakersfield; and if they can't go the club pays a $500 fine. Not blaming SOCAL, but the way our area has been carved up and walled-off by various leagues makes it incredibly difficult for clubs and families.

Take it easy on Bakersfield, the travel at ulittles is even more brutal for us :) Next time you're up here though hit me up, we've got some good local breweries and a taco spot that I'll put up against anywhere. Take some of the sting out of the drive. That being said, I really feel like this whole deal was better when we had pro/rel and everyone played in the same league. It didn't matter if you were from San Diego, Riverside, Bakersfield, or LA you got to play at the level you had earned.
 
Take it easy on Bakersfield, the travel at ulittles is even more brutal for us :) Next time you're up here though hit me up, we've got some good local breweries and a taco spot that I'll put up against anywhere. Take some of the sting out of the drive. That being said, I really feel like this whole deal was better when we had pro/rel and everyone played in the same league. It didn't matter if you were from San Diego, Riverside, Bakersfield, or LA you got to play at the level you had earned.
You had me at tacos...
 
No, the older's season has ended with the playoffs this weekend. There is no 2nd half of the season, this is it. After Thanksgiving, the olders break for high school soccer then when that's over, I believe it's the State Cup and tournaments until the end of the school year. Everything basically comes to an end in July for the U19s.
That’s awesome. Makes me like NPL more.
 
Why do we care about rankings? I don't think college coaches/scouts care what a team's rank is.

It really is important when tournaments assign flights. They don’t have a lot of Tools to work with except their records and the pleadings of coaches. We were good citizens and didn’t play anyone during Covid, lost all of our rankings and points. We were ranked >2500 in the country and Manchester City put us in the second flight. We emailed, called and emailed pleading with them to move us up and only when I DM’d them through Facebook did I get any reply but it was too late. We blew up the bracket and won but all of our girls felt terrible, like we robbed another team of their rightful medals.

You are right. The rankings are fun for us and the girls don’t really participate in the insanity. But in a world where small clubs are begging to play great teams, it’s importent.
 
I would go the other way on this. From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.

Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA. Despite KJR's protests, Tudela does disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
  • they beat teams 11-0 on crap fields;
  • they have to prove their quality despite the league, because the top college programs just want to see ECNL or GA;
  • its not a college scout magnet;
  • they owe a duty to their players to find a better platform.
KJR says that Tudela strives to always do the right thing. Prove it. Do the right thing and remove all of your teams from the Discovery League. You hate it. You think it is a bad fit. You don't want to follow its rules. And then you complain when the rules are enforced after your non-compliance.
Jesus, Bob, hold off your pitchfork!!!

You need to understand that no one owes YOU an explanation. They don’t have to prove anything to you. They broke the rules, they receive the sanction according to those same rules. That’s it. Between the club and the league. Move on.

For a Bob, you seriously act as a major Karen.
 
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