Things going down at Cal....

[Soccer43]

This coaches actions led to a dozen girls contracting a serious life threatening illness and he is still the head coach so I guess those girls just needed to suck it up and be tougher as a D1 athlete and not complain:


University of Houston

Without medical treatment you can die from this

 

[outside!]

Hmmm, this brings to mind a phrase I heard. Something about "believe the women".

Top level school with great recruiting classes year after year
Great location
Consistent under-performance
Multiple women coming forward with accusations

Smoke = fire?
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark?

 

[dad4]

The NCAA scholarship and transfer rules do a lot to trap players at abusive programs.

Allow at will transfers, and you'll see less of this.

Or, if you can, fund your kids college yourself. That way your kid can afford to leave a bad coach mid season if necessary.

 

[tjsoccer]

Was it emotionally abusive? I don’t see it that way especially since that’s the worst the tv station’s year long investigation spanning a 10 year period “uncovered”. Seriously, if that is the worst of his behavior in 10 years and he gets fired over it, pretty much every coach in every sport also needs to go and Greg Baker deserves the electric chair.

The incident below happened 11 years ago....not abuse, but definitely points to an emotionally unstable coach. But overall, I agree with you. Throwing around terms like "abusive" shouldn't be done lightly. With what has been presented, the question should be whether or not his tactics get the best out his players and his team....not whether he should be called an abuser. But he has probably created an environment that is difficult to succeed in, and the players were just fed up with it.

"Last weekend, the Cal women's soccer season took a turn for the worse, or rather, the bizarre.

Following a 1-0 loss to perennially mediocre Sacramento State last Friday afternoon, coach Neil McGuire allegedly told his team that he was stepping down from his post.

McGuire was not present for Saturday's practice or Sunday's 1-1 double-overtime draw with No. 15 Santa Clara due to the need to attend to "personal business," according to a press release from Cal Athletics. Yesterday afternoon, he said that he did not want to comment on what happened over the weekend.

"It's in the past now," McGuire said.

Immediately following the post-game events Friday, leading goal scorer and usually diplomatic forward Alex Morgan posted the following message on her Twitter:

"You turned your back on us once we can and will turn our backs on you for good. You are not welcome back." "

McGuire's About-Face Casts Questions Over Oregon Trip - The Daily Californian

archive.dailycal.org

 

[EOTL]

Hmmm, this brings to mind a phrase I heard. Something about "believe the women".

Top level school with great recruiting classes year after year
Great location
Consistent under-performance
Multiple women coming forward with accusations

Smoke = fire?
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark?

This is exactly why I don’t like articles like these. The inability to identify any specific statement or action that is actually abusive shouldn’t be used to speculate that maybe he did something abusive despite their inability to find it. The headline has gotten people using Shakespeare cliches and in a tizzy over much ado about nothing.

 

[HoopsCoach]

The incident below happened 11 years ago....not abuse, but definitely points to an emotionally unstable coach. But overall, I agree with you. Throwing around terms like "abusive" shouldn't be done lightly. With what has been presented, the question should be whether or not his tactics get the best out his players and his team....not whether he should be called an abuser. But he has probably created an environment that is difficult to succeed in, and the players were just fed up with it.

"Last weekend, the Cal women's soccer season took a turn for the worse, or rather, the bizarre.

Following a 1-0 loss to perennially mediocre Sacramento State last Friday afternoon, coach Neil McGuire allegedly told his team that he was stepping down from his post.

McGuire was not present for Saturday's practice or Sunday's 1-1 double-overtime draw with No. 15 Santa Clara due to the need to attend to "personal business," according to a press release from Cal Athletics. Yesterday afternoon, he said that he did not want to comment on what happened over the weekend.

"It's in the past now," McGuire said.

Immediately following the post-game events Friday, leading goal scorer and usually diplomatic forward Alex Morgan posted the following message on her Twitter:

"You turned your back on us once we can and will turn our backs on you for good. You are not welcome back." "

McGuire's About-Face Casts Questions Over Oregon Trip - The Daily Californian

archive.dailycal.org

WOW!

 

[Calisoccer11]

For me it is less about the cutthroat nature and being tough and more about being smart about what makes a player and team successful. Boys/men are pushed to excellence by this approach. Girls/women are driven to success when they have comraderie with their teammates, are supported, pushed in a competitive environment, and are treated with respect with consistent, clear messages about the expectations. My older daughter had three coaches like this - they each took medium of the pack teams and made them into championship programs. Being a bully and demeaning women and tearing them down only makes them emotional and get into their head too much, questioning themselves and feeling inadequate never leads to success. How many of these male coaches have ever taken any training in female psychology to understand what works?

1000%!

 

[outside!]

This is exactly why I don’t like articles like these. The inability to identify any specific statement or action that is actually abusive shouldn’t be used to speculate that maybe he did something abusive despite their inability to find it. The headline has gotten people using Shakespeare cliches and in a tizzy over much ado about nothing.

Many of the former and current players at Cal do not think it is "nothing". The fact that "they" could not find the abuse does not mean it did not happen. Because of the power imbalance between the organization and the players, it could very well mean that the coach and athletic director are just good at covering up. It could also mean the athletic department and or school administration have never really investigated all of the past claims given that none of the players were ever interviewed as part of an investigation. The fact that many players are willing to come forward despite the risks involved points to an abusive environment. Hopefully this results in a change in leadership for the team and athletic department.

Besides all of that, I am surprised the athletic director did not replace the coach a long time ago given their quality of their recruits and the poor performance of the team. Smells like a good old boy club.

 

[dad4]

This is exactly why I don’t like articles like these. The inability to identify any specific statement or action that is actually abusive shouldn’t be used to speculate that maybe he did something abusive despite their inability to find it. The headline has gotten people using Shakespeare cliches and in a tizzy over much ado about nothing.

Including the hazing victims when you punish the team for hazing? That is specific enough for me.

The message seems pretty clear- he was not punishing the team for forcing unwilling people to drink vodka to the point of alcohol poisoning. He was punishing the team for getting caught. So he also punished the freshmen because he wanted to be sure to punish the whistleblower.

Now, if you want to deal with the hazing, you start pulling scholarships and finish the season with walk-ons if necessary. But that obviously wasn’t his goal.

 

[EOTL]

Many of the former and current players at Cal do not think it is "nothing". The fact that "they" could not find the abuse does not mean it did not happen. Because of the power imbalance between the organization and the players, it could very well mean that the coach and athletic director are just good at covering up. It could also mean the athletic department and or school administration have never really investigated all of the past claims given that none of the players were ever interviewed as part of an investigation. The fact that many players are willing to come forward despite the risks involved points to an abusive environment. Hopefully this results in a change in leadership for the team and athletic department.

Besides all of that, I am surprised the athletic director did not replace the coach a long time ago given their quality of their recruits and the poor performance of the team. Smells like a good old boy club.

You’re just speculating and are easily manipulated if you think the lack of real evidence means there is a cover-up. You also have unrealistic expectations about what deserves to get fired. Making the tournament 12 of 13 years and your players graduating is plenty good enough. Women’s soccer is not USC or Notre Dame football, nor should it be.
Oh, and “many” players did not come forward. There were what, six over an investigation spanning 10 years. Please.

 

[EOTL]

Including the hazing victims when you punish the team for hazing? That is specific enough for me.

The message seems pretty clear- he was not punishing the team for forcing unwilling people to drink vodka to the point of alcohol poisoning. He was punishing the team for getting caught. So he also punished the freshmen because he wanted to be sure to punish the whistleblower.

Now, if you want to deal with the hazing, you start pulling scholarships and finish the season with walk-ons if necessary. But that obviously wasn’t his goal.

Wow, you are nuts. How’d you come up with “drink[ing] to the point of alcohol poisoning”? How do you know there was even a whistleblower, as opposed to the coach finding out from another source?

“Punishing the team for getting caught”? What kind of idiotic statement is that? You are seriously claiming that he knew what was going on and would not have imposed 50 hours of community service for each of them had no one complained? And who, exactly, did complain?

What, exactly happened at this party? Were the freshman included in the punishment because they complained, or because they were at a party they should not have been at? Were they also underage drinking outside of this alleged hazing incident?

Are you saying that 50 hours of community service is woefully insufficient for first time offenders?

Look, you have no idea what happened or why. This is why articles like this one are so irresponsible. It duped easily manipulated people into forming opinions when they have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[HoopsCoach]

Wow, you are nuts. How’d you come up with “drink[ing] to the point of alcohol poisoning”? How do you know there was even a whistleblower, as opposed to the coach finding out from another source?

“Punishing the team for getting caught”? What kind of idiotic statement is that? You are seriously claiming that he knew what was going on and would not have imposed 50 hours of community service for each of them had no one complained? And who, exactly, did complain?

What, exactly happened at this party? Were the freshman included in the punishment because they complained, or because they were at a party they should not have been at? Were they also underage drinking outside of this alleged hazing incident?

Are you saying that 50 hours of community service is woefully insufficient for first time offenders?

Look, you have no idea what happened or why. This is why articles like this one are so irresponsible. It duped easily manipulated people into forming opinions when they have no idea what they’re talking about.

I don't have a dog in this race but have heard that since this was aired, a lot of people have been coming forward with details about not only the Cal program, but the ways things were handled at Mustang. From the looks of it, this is only the beginning. Not sure what will come out of this other than the coach will have some major reflecting on how he coaches from here on out.

 

[outside!]

You’re just speculating and are easily manipulated if you think the lack of real evidence means there is a cover-up. You also have unrealistic expectations about what deserves to get fired. Making the tournament 12 of 13 years and your players graduating is plenty good enough. Women’s soccer is not USC or Notre Dame football, nor should it be.
Oh, and “many” players did not come forward. There were what, six over an investigation spanning 10 years. Please.

Wow, sorry, you are so right. Obviously there is nothing wrong at Cal. I am sure Alex Morgan agrees with you.

 

[EOTL]

I don't have a dog in this race but have heard that since this was aired, a lot of people have been coming forward with details about not only the Cal program, but the ways things were handled at Mustang. From the looks of it, this is only the beginning. Not sure what will come out of this other than the coach will have some major reflecting on how he coaches from here on out.

Here we go again. This is going to be very much like all the speculation and conspiracy theories at this forum about Cromwell during the Singer scandal. Lots of conclusions and innuendo, with none of the facts.

As I said during that sad online saga, people’s careers and the futures of many students - including those who are there right now and committed - will be potentially impacted in very serious ways. Your speculation A, and that of the others here, seems like fun and games in the petty youth soccer crowd, but it is irresponsible.

 

[HoopsCoach]

Here we go again. This is going to be very much like all the speculation and conspiracy theories at this forum about Cromwell during the Singer scandal. Lots of conclusions and innuendo, with none of the facts.

As I said during that sad online saga, people’s careers and the futures of many students - including those who are there right now and committed - will be potentially impacted in very serious ways. Your speculation A, and that of the others here, seems like fun and games in the petty youth soccer crowd, but it is irresponsible.

your refusal to acknowledge ANY wrong doing is just as irresponsible. Innocent until proven guilty but the facts have to come out. If there is a pattern as suggested by the Alex Morgan tweet suggests, this kind of behavior could be seen as common at Cal. Not saying it's true and there's two sides to every story. This is not fun nor is it a game.

 

[watfly]

At this point we're all just speculating and of course the "reporter" is going to make it seem as hyperbolic as possible, its the new "journalism". I agree with the thoughts that whether this was abuse, or not, the other question is whether this style of coaching is effective, particularly for women. I'm not opposed to tough love, but it should be used strategically and sparingly for it to be motivating. Used otherwise it just becomes fear based and players become afraid to make a mistake which doesn't enhance their performance. Or it just becomes ignored depending on the individual.

Long before they're in college, I think we should be raising our daughters (and sons) to have both a thick skin and a strong sense of self worth. Our young ladies need the strength to stand up for themselves when the situation warrants.

 

[dad4]

Here we go again. This is going to be very much like all the speculation and conspiracy theories at this forum about Cromwell during the Singer scandal. Lots of conclusions and innuendo, with none of the facts.

As I said during that sad online saga, people’s careers and the futures of many students - including those who are there right now and committed - will be potentially impacted in very serious ways. Your speculation A, and that of the others here, seems like fun and games in the petty youth soccer crowd, but it is irresponsible.

No need to speculate.

We have a clear case of hazing with potentially fatal consequences, and a clear failure of the coach to properly deal with it.

 

[EOTL]

your refusal to acknowledge ANY wrong doing is just as irresponsible. Innocent until proven guilty but the facts have to come out. If there is a pattern as suggested by the Alex Morgan tweet suggests, this kind of behavior could be seen as common at Cal. Not saying it's true and there's two sides to every story. This is not fun nor is it a game.

Go back and read what I said, because you are lying that I didn’t admit that he did something wrong.

The Alex Morgan tweet and that incident was 12 years ago and has absolutely nothing to do with “abuse”. The fact that you and others ate bringing that up, as well as what you consider a lack of success that deserves getting fired, shows how you’ve got your tiki torches out for this witch hunt.

 

[EOTL]

No need to speculate.

We have a clear case of hazing with potentially fatal consequences, and a clear failure of the coach to properly deal with it.

Potentially fatal consequences? You are nuts. There is not a single fact that supports that. There’s not a single fact that supports any of the conclusions you reached about the hazing incident. You don’t like that he included the freshman with the community service requirement, but you also have no idea why he did - or even whether he did or the AD.

 

[HoopsCoach]

Go back and read what I said, because you are lying that I didn’t admit that he did something wrong.

The Alex Morgan tweet and that incident was 12 years ago and has absolutely nothing to do with “abuse”. The fact that you and others ate bringing that up, as well as what you consider a lack of success that deserves getting fired, shows how you’ve got your tiki torches out for this witch hunt.

so because it was 12 years ago and nothing happened means it has nothing to do with abuse? GTFOH! My bad about saying you said he didn't do nothing wrong. my point is there is a pattern and should be followed up on. To say it's not, is minimizing everything these kids say. Only time will tell if this is true or not.