The issue is that increasingly the regions (especially if they have united teams) don't have core programs beyond u14. One region my son refs at does not have a BU16 (they have two BU14 teams which have to travel to the other regions in the immediate area in a combined league and one Gu14 team). The other has a Bu16 team combined from the various local regions, but while you aren't going to silverlakes every weekend, travel can be somewhat extensive and you may have to drive to practice (which is one of the things parents want to avoid if they aren't doing club).
The state of ayso
- Thread starter Grace T.
- Start date
The problem with AYSO is unscrupulous RCs who play favorites and dole out favors to the kids of the parents to who turn a blind eye to the RC's misconduct and bench the players whose parents are the whistleblowers.
Maybe AYSO wants to make sure that last-minute ref isn't a pedophile before he starts last-minute reffing games...
On the other hand, what could a pedophile ref do to hurt kids? I can’t think of a scenario where a ref would be alone with a player.
They could make gay calls.
aong cangkol
SILVER
You are right. This may be the major factor of AYSO declines in some areas. Latino league is more reliable and even provide better quality soccer.
aong cangkol
SILVER
AYSO does not exist after 8th grade. You have to join Latino league or other ethnic group leagues depending where you live (Vietnamese, Middle Easterns). For high school kids, the playing style is probably preparing them well for high school soccer.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
Seriously? Shame on you. Crawl back in your hole where jokes like this used to be funny
Moreover, it's not like there are random strangers showing up to AYSO games and volunteering to help out on the spot in a pinch because of a shortage of other volunteers for the game. We're talking about parents, of kids, who are probably playing in the game, and who are probably known to many of the other parents already. It's not a situation where you really have to be concerned with the worst possible "what if..." scenario, if the goal is to let the kids play soccer casually while the rest of the parents cheer them on.
There's this thing called "common sense" which is increasingly lacking in modern society.
The familiarity of a person placed in a position of power over children is exactly the point of concern. Stranger danger is a thing, but it’s familiar adults who are the most dangerous and the source of the vast majority of abuse toward minors.
Great point. This is exactly how pedophiles groom. Turning a blind eye to this reality is how organizations fall prey to them. The rules are there for a reason, and ignoring them because one person thinks it's "common sense" is how the problems start. I'm for NOT allowing pedophiles to ref youth soccer games. I would have thought we would have unanimity on that, but maybe not, strangely.
I thought it was still funny. Should I dig my own hole?
Don't know enough about the issue to know where I stand on it but I would note a few points.
1. Of course no one wants pedos anywhere near a youth soccer field. By the terms of their parole, they are restricted from going anywhere near certain places children hang out. The real question is how much of a cost/benefit we are going to inflict on the general population in order to catch pedos who are already if they were to volunteer to ref would a. unlike the coach position have very little time to speak to the child outside of parental supervision and b. already be doing something which is illegal.
2. It should be noted that the sex offender list is much larger than just pedos. It includes anyone convicted of spousal or date rape. It includes statutory rape even say a 19 year old with a 17 year old. Again, not taking a position on whether such people should or should not be excluded as higher risk, but I'm just pointing out the list is larger than pedos.
3. The finger printing requirement is a statutory requirement in California. It's often the most burdensome of the volunteer requirements since it requires you going some place authorized to do a live scan and producing identity documents (note it's a higher burden than we require to vote). Some AYSO regions do a livescan night where the vendor comes to them. I don't know what the rationale is for the finger printing. Anyone know? They trying to catch pedos who are using fraudulent papers? One accusation that was levelled at the time the bill was passed was that it's just a means for the security apparatus of the state (since all states and the feds share the data base) to increase the people in the system in case a nonrelated crime needs to be identified.
4. Supposedly you must exceed 16 hrs per month, 32 per year to be required to finger print, and a team AR looking to meet points is unlikely to hit those numbers unless they really get into reffing. BUT rather than track everyone's hours AYSO and other orgs just make you get it even if you are under the threshold to avoid an administrative nightmare.
I’m an AYSO trained coach. All four of my kids played AYSO and one still does.
I don’t think there’s any normal and rational scenario where a ref would be in a position to take advantage of a kid because he (or she, or they) was working an AYSO game.
The only possible way that could happen would be if the ref already is part of or knows the family and could be in a position to exploit that relationship outside of AYSO activities. Overall, This seems like worrying about shark attacks in a swimming pool. The refs at my region only interact with the kids on the field with 40 parents watching. Not sleep away camp.
Regarding the overall decline, I think you see it in every sport. Little League WS is all made up of travel team players, etc. My region fielded an Extra team for 2012y that my kid played on. Coach wasn’t very good, team got mauled most games, and many of the best kids left for club (we did) or other sports. Other regions had better coaches and more solid Select/Extra programs, and they maybe keep the better kids for an extra cycle two, but the best kids will get to a club team by 14 almost every time. AYSO United is just another club team as far as I can tell.
After 12U is where the numbers really drop off where I live, but they seem to be able to keep 2 14U teams each for boys and girls, and one each up to 17/18.
I don’t think there’s any normal and rational scenario where a ref would be in a position to take advantage of a kid because he (or she, or they) was working an AYSO game.
The only possible way that could happen would be if the ref already is part of or knows the family and could be in a position to exploit that relationship outside of AYSO activities. Overall, This seems like worrying about shark attacks in a swimming pool. The refs at my region only interact with the kids on the field with 40 parents watching. Not sleep away camp.
Regarding the overall decline, I think you see it in every sport. Little League WS is all made up of travel team players, etc. My region fielded an Extra team for 2012y that my kid played on. Coach wasn’t very good, team got mauled most games, and many of the best kids left for club (we did) or other sports. Other regions had better coaches and more solid Select/Extra programs, and they maybe keep the better kids for an extra cycle two, but the best kids will get to a club team by 14 almost every time. AYSO United is just another club team as far as I can tell.
After 12U is where the numbers really drop off where I live, but they seem to be able to keep 2 14U teams each for boys and girls, and one each up to 17/18.
So you're in favor of allowing pedos to ref AYSO games? Or just in favor of not requiring background checks on them? Do you dispute that experience has taught us that eventually pedos end up involved with youth organizations where background checks are not strictly enforced?
Hey Larz, what about the Docs that go around banging moms for spots on the top team so little Forrest can make the A team and or taking some side hustle cash in DA back room to make the list? I'm with you on no Pedos but unfortunately the Pedos are everywhere dude. AYSO is still a great place for kids to go have fun. My neighbor's kid plays and both of my kids played AYSO and even crush did. My little goat was on the Shining Stars and we were #1. It's where I got handed a card from a "scout" when she was 6 to go play club. I waited one more year and then all the scouts from all the clubs came after me. Can I share a little story about my experience with assholes in club?
This is called the Loaded Question logical fallacy.
Of course not to answer your first question.
I’m not against background checks for refs, but I do wonder if having them has ever resulted in a single ref candidate being disallowed. Again, if you were a predator, I think you’d try to insinuate yourself elsewhere.
I don’t dispute your last loaded question, either. I want all my kids coaches, and anyone in a position of influence over them, to be SafeSport screened.
None of your questions explain any way an AYSO ref could possibly leverage the position to exploit a kid. Camp counselor, religious leader, teacher, uncle, etc. all of these roles, plainly, afford much more risk to kids than a sports ref who by definition only interacts with kids they don’t already know in full public view.
Weird spot to be in. I’m not out here advocating they don’t be background screened. My suggestion is anyone worrying about this more than for 10 seconds has either a very different AYSO setup than the one I’ve seen or a focus on risk that probably would lead to a great career as an engineer or OHSA employee.
It just occurred to me. Maybe my 13yo just signing up to ref AYSO has me out on a limb here. This is my formal disclosure of conflict of interest!
This isn’t about “assume you have a referee, is he a pedophile?”. The answer is almost always “no.”
The better question is, “assume there are a few pedophiles out there, somewhere. Do you want them to seek out your organization because you’re the ones who don’t run background checks?”.
Our local AYSO fingerprints all adults. It’s not a big deal. Just one more checkbox that you wish wasn’t necessary.
Isn't the "just one more checkbox" though the problem. At a certain point, you have enough checkboxes that it serves as a disincentives for the normies to get it done. The question then becomes which checkboxes you get rid of, but everybody thinks one of the checkboxes is important.
Youth referees are subject to less strenuous requirements than adults. So we are clearly drawing a line there that a 17 year old is much less likely than an 18 year old to be a predator. Now this isn't necessarily true that there is a magic line between 17 and 18 year old where the 17 year old can never be a pedo but the 18 year old poses a dire threat of being a pedo. But it's a line drawing problem that is common because we make tradeoffs between costs and benefits.
But even then my kid found it daunting to volunteer. He started the process last year, fell ill with COVID so was unable to go to the scheduled ref training so had to schedule it with another region on another day, but the process was so cumbersome he couldn't figure out how to log onto AYSOU, then how to find it, then how to get the two regions to signoff on it......he just wound up saying "f it....don't need my service hours this year anyway so I'll do it next year".