The new season

In regards to the tournament structure, why wasn’t there a quarter finals game for the flight 1 bracket? With the amount of money that was spent to enter, I felt Blues should have had the top two teams from each bracket move on to a Sunday afternoon quarter finals game. The semi’s and final could have been scheduled for Monday. At the minimum they could have guaranteed a consolation game as was done at Surf Cup.
 
Soccer Bum 06 said:
In regards to the tournament structure, why wasn’t there a quarter finals game for the flight 1 bracket? With the amount of money that was spent to enter, I felt Blues should have had the top two teams from each bracket move on to a Sunday afternoon quarter finals game. The semi’s and final could have been scheduled for Monday. At the minimum they could have guaranteed a consolation game as was done at Surf Cup.
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Practically nobody wants to stay and pay an extra night for a consolation game....
 
Parent said:
HMMMM your comments/predictions are very interesting, but I have to disagree!!
Lets begin with the Blues Cup. Isn't Blues Cup suppose to be a quality tournament??? It was over $1100 to join. For that kind of money who should be officiating the game?????? A quality referee!!! Nope not at Blues cup. There were times we had children younger than our children that were playing the game officiating the sidelines. It is a big thumbs down to Blues for not having experienced/quality referees(ADULTS).
There is one team you overlooked, which is Empire! I actually took the time to go and watch this semi finals game because Empire has really caught my attention. They are a no name club from Inland Empire that can COMPETE with the best of them. Now lets begin with the 15 year old referee that was officiating the middle, and the 13 and 14 year old officiating the sidelines. Hmmm if you ask me in a semi finals game, where its a matter of going to finals or going home, you need experienced referees and not children. You can not leave the decisions of the game, which can change the course of the game to a bunch of children. If Blues wanted children to ref, then have them ref the 2011 even the 2010.............
Anyways to make a long story short, all teams in Blues Cup are very impressive, and all belonged there and could compete. Blues cup was very disappointing with their choices of unexperienced refs.
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How do you know the ages of the referees? Did you ask them? Do you know their experience level? Are they in the US Soccer youth Referee development program? You don’t know the answer to any of those questions because all you want to do is to have someone to blame for the loss. Moron!!!

I know some great youth referees and some adult referees that look like they are still in high school. My daughter has worked many finals as a Referee including Surf Cup B16-18 finals. While at a summer tournament at Silverlakes, she ejected an assistant coach for some derogatory comments toward her, “why don’t you go call you mommy to come drive you home”, “we get a little girl ref when we should have a man”. What the idiot didn’t know is that my daughter may look 16 years old but she is 22, has a D coaches license, coaches two teams including a G16 team, was a college player and is a very good Referee.

And, referees during these summer tournaments don’t care who wins. Your suggestion that the refs were favoring Blues is completely ludicrous and the babbling of a complete idiot. Your team lost, so stop blaming the refs and face the fact that your players played hard but were just not good enough that day.
 
Surfref said:
How do you know the ages of the referees? Did you ask them? Do you know their experience level? Are they in the US Soccer youth Referee development program? You don’t know the answer to any of those questions because all you want to do is to have someone to blame for the loss. Moron!!!

I know some great youth referees and some adult referees that look like they are still in high school. My daughter has worked many finals as a Referee including Surf Cup B16-18 finals. While at a summer tournament at Silverlakes, she ejected an assistant coach for some derogatory comments toward her, “why don’t you go call you mommy to come drive you home”, “we get a little girl ref when we should have a man”. What the idiot didn’t know is that my daughter may look 16 years old but she is 22, has a D coaches license, coaches two teams including a G16 team, was a college player and is a very good Referee.

And, referees during these summer tournaments don’t care who wins. Your suggestion that the refs were favoring Blues is completely ludicrous and the babbling of a complete idiot. Your team lost, so stop blaming the refs and face the fact that your players played hard but were just not good enough that day.
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Well here it is!! Before you type away and call names, I myself was there and saw the referees, where you?????? No I didn't ask to see their DL or middle school ID card. If you were there you would see that the ref didn't even look anywhere close to 16. Even a "moron" could see that! You must have affiliation with the Blues to outright call people morons and idiots!! As I tell my children, use your big boy/girl words, and don't call people names. You must have missed that life lesson.
Like you commented above, I am not a parent of Empire! I just like to give credit where credit is due. I could care less about their loss, but when the game was mismanaged by the referees, I find that an issue. This could have been a game against any teams, and if the same calls were called I would feel the same way. That to me is where the issue lies, and not whether or not Empire won or lost.
I disagree with your comments. Unfortunately a bad ref can change the course of the game, as it has for us in many games. Now if you read my entire post, you would see that I wasn't slamming only the juveniles, but also adults as well. But it is ludicrous of you to think that bad calls cannot change the course of a game, please take your blinders off! Me personally, if my children's teams cannot pull off a win due to coming up short and just not being able to play better than the other team, then that's what soccer is all about! But as I have stated before, there is an obvious lack of experience and maturity when your too timid to carry out calls you made, too shy to speak up and let your center ref know your flag is raised over and over again. Fortunately we have seen experienced refs before and know that with experience and age they take initiative, speak up and communicate to their center refs when a call needs to be made.
I understand that everyone needs to start somewhere, and learn to be confident enough to actually make the calls, communicate them, speak up when their information they have pertains to a call. However, my point was that the learning curve should not happen at a semifinals or a finals game. My other child is playing recreation soccer, and that is all he had was young children refing that game. That in my opinion is perfect!!! Everyone has to start somewhere, and a very expensive high priced tournament isn't the place for that.
Bravo to your daughter for making the calls, but you just proved my point, so thank you for that. She played college soccer, and coaches two teams! I would say she has EXPERIENCE, which is my point. These refs didn't have experience, and don't have enough self confidence to stand up and make the calls.
 
I was at Blues Cup on Sunday afternoon and know that the center refs were selected for the semi and finals from a group of experienced referees. The referee in your game, if I have the correct game 2008 G11 Empire vs Blues, was actually 19 and is an outstanding Referee. I have worked with him and he has always called an outstanding game. It is not really that difficult for a good Referee to call a girls 9v9 game. How would you know if he called a good game since you are not a Referee or Referee Assessor and don’t really know the LOTG or how to interpret them. But that’s okay, if you need to blame the Referee for your team’s loss I completely understand because it is 11 year old girls soccer and Blues Cup was the equivalent of the G11 World Cup.
 
@Parent, what you posted regarding the ARs is very typical of how many uLittle parents feel, so good news, you are not alone. I myself have heard many times the referees tend to be horrible at the 7v7 and 9v9 levels in both league and tournaments. I can't tell you how many times I've had to console some 13 or 14 year old AR because a uLittle parent yelled at them or got on their case because of a mistake.

What I typically tell those new referees after getting berated by some jackass on the sideline goes something like this:

1) You did the online training, taking all the modules and passing them, you did the field training, you also play soccer. That a-hole on the sideline that was disrespectful and/or argued the call and/or thought the offside decision was wrong, didn't do any of that.

2) Those parents don't know what the laws of the game are, they think everything is a "handball" and that soccer is only a "contact" sport if their daughter isn't involved. In fact, just to show you how ignorant those parents are, did you notice how they shouted, groaned and/or challenged some of the calls we made? Its like they never read the "Cal South Code of Conduct." Don't let them get to you, their just ignorant parents.

3) Mistakes happen. You are going to make mistakes, just like the players make mistakes, the coach made mistakes and those parents make mistakes. Always remember that this is youth soccer, its supposed to be fun for all involved. Then I say something along the lines of "Can you believe that idiot parent thinks this little kids soccer game is the World Cup?" Then we laugh, point fingers, laugh and some other referee has a good story about some parent that took this stuff way too seriously and couldn't control himself/herself on the sideline. Then we laugh some.​

Here is the good news, as your kid moves up the ranks and get older the refereeing gets so much better. Its not that they make fewer mistakes, they still make mistakes, but your perspective will change. You'll sit on the sideline watching your college bound kid make some boneheaded mistake and/or some great play and you'll watch the referee fail to call this or that and/or move way too slowly to catch the offside of those U17s. All those uLittle parents that stick it out and/or don't drive their kids from organized sports, get a new perspective. The mistakes still happen, but you realize its just part of the game and those mistakes tend to balance out. You'll no longer yell "offside" or "handball" or "give him/her a yellow" or any of the other dumb things uLittle parents used to say.

Just today, I watched my boys game today (he is a U16 that plays up on a U18 team, Flight 1 team). There were many mistakes made by the Referee crew, but not a single parent yelled or shouted. We are seasoned and experienced. We know the mistakes will happen and we know that it won't mean a damn thing in the long run because those tournament wins mean nothing, despite how much money the team paid (and charged us).

MWN
USSF E-License, USSF Grade 7 Referee, Parent
 
Surfref said:
I was at Blues Cup on Sunday afternoon and know that the center refs were selected for the semi and finals from a group of experienced referees. The referee in your game, if I have the correct game 2008 G11 Empire vs Blues, was actually 19 and is an outstanding Referee. I have worked with him and he has always called an outstanding game. It is not really that difficult for a good Referee to call a girls 9v9 game. How would you know if he called a good game since you are not a Referee or Referee Assessor and don’t really know the LOTG or how to interpret them. But that’s okay, if you need to blame the Referee for your team’s loss I completely understand because it is 11 year old girls soccer and Blues Cup was the equivalent of the G11 World Cup.
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Well, if you were there on Sunday afternoon at the game, you never once said he did a good job of refereeing that game!!! Hmmm I find that very interesting.
Again, I didn't check drivers license at the sidelines to make sure all were of age!! I will not go over my point again and again because of course teams in which the calls are in favor for will defend the ref!
I had no skin in that game, and could CARE LESS about the outcome of the game we had already played Empire so it didn't affect us at all. I saw a lot of horrible calls done by inexperienced young referees all weekend! Just because someone passed the required test to ref, doesn't make them equal to someone with more experience. Normally I would state one point and let it go!! But you people are defending bad refereeing and acting as if they don't take sides or make bad calls over and over again... WAKE UP!!!!!! I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be singing another tune!
That's great, he may be a fantastic ref, but I truly didn't see any good refereeing going on that game! It's just my opinion in which I am entitled too! You are absolutely right, it shouldn't be difficult to referee a 9V9 game, but experienced referees should know to consult with sideline AR's, actually look up to see if their AR's are calling things, as well as sideline AR's speaking up against what they saw from the sidelines, or letting one team punt over the half line and one team not time and time again!! So why was that so difficult for this experienced ref in a 9 v 9 game?????
Our games were the same situation with refs, I started this thread because I am sure more people had the same issues. This just happened to be the game that I thought was terribly done, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I sure am not pointing my finger at the refs about losing our games, BUT some bad calls changed the course of the game. If you disagree with that then you have your head buried in the sand.
Oh and BTW, how do you know if I am not a referee, or don't know about the LOTG. You are making assumptions!!! I have been around the game a long long time, and know the rules of the game. Anyone can decide whether or not it was a properly referreed game, whether they are a referee or not. Remember it isn't difficult to referee a 9 v 9 game o_O nor is it difficult as a spectator to see if the game is being refered effectively!!!

POINT IS: Quality tournament(G11 World Cup:eek:) should equal quality referees!! Whether or not they are 7 years old, or 95 years old. That's what you expect and should receive!!!
NUFF SAID!!!!
 
Parent said:
BUT some bad calls changed the course of the game. If you disagree with that then you have your head buried in the sand.
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When someone starts to tell me their bad beat at a poker table, I tell them "you need to give me $20 if you want me to hear your sad story".
 
Parent said:
Well, if you were there on Sunday afternoon at the game, you never once said he did a good job of refereeing that game!!! Hmmm I find that very interesting.
Again, I didn't check drivers license at the sidelines to make sure all were of age!! I will not go over my point again and again because of course teams in which the calls are in favor for will defend the ref!
I had no skin in that game, and could CARE LESS about the outcome of the game we had already played Empire so it didn't affect us at all. I saw a lot of horrible calls done by inexperienced young referees all weekend! Just because someone passed the required test to ref, doesn't make them equal to someone with more experience. Normally I would state one point and let it go!! But you people are defending bad refereeing and acting as if they don't take sides or make bad calls over and over again... WAKE UP!!!!!! I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be singing another tune!
That's great, he may be a fantastic ref, but I truly didn't see any good refereeing going on that game! It's just my opinion in which I am entitled too! You are absolutely right, it shouldn't be difficult to referee a 9V9 game, but experienced referees should know to consult with sideline AR's, actually look up to see if their AR's are calling things, as well as sideline AR's speaking up against what they saw from the sidelines, or letting one team punt over the half line and one team not time and time again!! So why was that so difficult for this experienced ref in a 9 v 9 game?????
Our games were the same situation with refs, I started this thread because I am sure more people had the same issues. This just happened to be the game that I thought was terribly done, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I sure am not pointing my finger at the refs about losing our games, BUT some bad calls changed the course of the game. If you disagree with that then you have your head buried in the sand.
Oh and BTW, how do you know if I am not a referee, or don't know about the LOTG. You are making assumptions!!! I have been around the game a long long time, and know the rules of the game. Anyone can decide whether or not it was a properly referreed game, whether they are a referee or not. Remember it isn't difficult to referee a 9 v 9 game o_O nor is it difficult as a spectator to see if the game is being refered effectively!!!

POINT IS: Quality tournament(G11 World Cup:eek:) should equal quality referees!! Whether or not they are 7 years old, or 95 years old. That's what you expect and should receive!!!
NUFF SAID!!!!
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I can understand your point of view and respect your opinion even if I may not completely agree with it. I was not at your game but know who the referee was that was in the center and find it hard to believe that he called such a poor game that it changed the outcome. But, I guess it could have happened.

Don't judge a referee by their looks. This past weekend I worked (G15, G16, G19 games) on a crew that had a 34 y/o ref (CR G15) and a 19 y/o (CR G16), so by your logic the better center referee should have been the 34 y/o, but it was the 19 y/o. The 34 y/o referee was in great physical shape and looked like he was ready to center a World Cup game, but he has only been refereeing for two years and had only played AYSO rec while growing up until he was 15. The 19 y/o referee has played club since he was 6, currently plays in college and has been a referee since he was 12. The 19y/o did a fabulous job in the center while the 34 y/o struggled to control the match mainly because he did not know how to read the temperature of the game and manage the players. And, then you had my 50 y/o slightly overweight ass in the center on the G19 game and I would like to think that I did a good job mainly because the winning coach said I did and the home team coach who lost said, "I hope we get you in the center more often. Great job."

Yesterday I refereed a couple 7v7 games and got yelled at by some crazy parents. I am a State level referee with years of experience and training. The coach for the team that had the crazy parents, yelled at them that they were lucky to have a high level referee on their game and if anyone yelled at the referee again they and their kid would be asked to leave. On the field next to me was a 9v9 girls game with an Emeritus National referee who is also a National Assessor and Instructor. The crazy parents were yelling at him. So, when I hear a parent say that a referee did a horrible job, especially on a 7v7 or 9v9 game, I usually do not believe them and think they have some bias such as their team lost, the team they wanted to win lost, or they don't like the other team because it was their tournament or they are the home team.
 
@Sureref..
I'm not taking sides on the matter, but can relate to @Parent as these types of games (semi-finals/finals) are high pressure, tons of tension and one missed (offsides, handball, header, flop) can definitely change the course of the game for the U-littles. I have noticed that you tend to defend referees without watching the game, but always follow that anyone can make a mistake including yourself. Now, I've only been in the club soccer scene for the past 4 seasons and have experienced that the younger refs tend to feel the pressure much more than the older more seasoned referees. We have been blessed to have both my son and daughter play at the highest level for their age group and even play up at the flight 1, experiencing the playoffs in these top Cups (Surf, Vegas, State, etc..)

You can argue that a 19 year old referee is a seasoned veteran, but I will agree to disagree with you on that one. I've gone thru the 7v7s, 9v9s and now experiencing the 11v11s games and do agree with you everyone on the field is human and makes mistakes. I have found my serenity by video recording each and every game, to study the mistakes made by all involved (player, coach, referee, etc). The recordings started to help my son and daughter study their play to improve for the team and individually. However, now these recordings have helped their coaches understand how certain plays develop and what can be done to improve the teams and each players individually and review the questionable calls.

I have also found from these recordings that the referees that our sidelines felt were horrible, were for the most part very solid referees and fairly called for both teams. I recall a couple seasons ago at a State Cup quarter final game, minutes before the halftime whistle the opposing team scored on a counter play and our entire sideline was certain it was an off-sides missed call by the referee, including myself. I stormed over to the referee to show him the footage, only to be corrected by my own recording that it was the right call. I gave the proper kudos to the referee, apologized and returned to my sideline to relay the information to the coach and parents.

Now, I do have recordings of other games where there were questionable calls, one in particular was the Surf Cup BU12 Championship game. After reviewing the footage, we did determine it was a bad call by the referee and left it at that. Our kids now play their games knowing everyone on the field makes mistakes, starting with themselves but always walk off the field shaking the hands of the opposing team, opposing coach and referees. We as a family have much respect for the referees, always bring extra water on hotter days for them and understand it is a lot to ask a referee to call a perfect game.

Returning to my point and regardless if the referee's called a good game from my experience, I would prefer a seasoned referee for these top flight/cup tournaments at least for the center referee.
 
@Papa Teran one thing you have to remember is you camera had your view point which differs from refs . Sometimes the angle is better from the sideline sometimes better from the place where the ref is at . But the viewpoints and angles are different. Sometimes a ref misses calls because of players being in the way or a bad angle. Either way video recordings are great but don't tell the whole story.
 
@Caltek
I couldn't agree with you more on this statement sir. I've even relayed to my kids to do what they feel is best on the field of play, even if it means to disregard what coach is yelling since he/she may not have the angle you have. (ie; one occasion, my daughter was about ready to shoot on target, but coach yelled to take the space. my daughter saw this as the only opportunity due to a defender closing in fast. She followed coaches direction, took the space and the shot was blocked by the approaching defender. She was a bit frustrated at the coaches call and even in the film it looked like she had the space [i was recording right next to the coach at the time] but to her it was much different.)
 
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