The big player
- Thread starter timbuck
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Kicknit22
GOLD
Thanks RD. Exactly the point I was attempting to make.
Any player whose legs reach all the way to the ground can play. That's where the ball is >90% of the time.
It's got to be tempting as a coach to see a big player show up at a tryout.
I've heard plenty of coaches say "give me the big player and I'll teach her to play soccer", while a player with more skill is overlooked.
I've got a pretty small team. The best player on my team is the smallest. The tallest player on my team is pretty solid, but she is the one that opposing coaches try to recruit away.
I've heard plenty of coaches say "give me the big player and I'll teach her to play soccer", while a player with more skill is overlooked.
I've got a pretty small team. The best player on my team is the smallest. The tallest player on my team is pretty solid, but she is the one that opposing coaches try to recruit away.
Kicknit22
GOLD
That sounds just like a quote I heard from an ODP coach. What a joke.
Looks at Japan woman national team
...they beat a lot of the heavy hitters and the are on the smallest size, but they are well discipline,.
Kicknit22
GOLD
Just to be clear, I am not discounting the Big player at all. Let's talk girls side only for a minute. It just seems to me, through many a conversation with coaches here and there, that they are looking for the next Abby Wambach. Its just not realistic. IMO
The Driver
PREMIER
Confidence, technique, skill, quickness, and leverage. If you focus on size let it be the size of the ball only.
Often times the style of play of a country is a reflection of its culture.
I've been coming to the conclusion that the "big athletic" player and the desire to win right now is just ingrained in our culture. No other country starts highly competitive youth sports at such young ages. In most other countries, there are some youth sports but it's mostly at the recreational or community level. But whether it's soccer, pee-wee football, or baseball, we put our kids who often are barely out of diapers into high-stakes competitions with various flight levels. Most other countries kids at this age play for fun, but we push our kids to play to win. We demand that our uLittle coaches to play to win.
When it comes to our major sports football and baseball, the "big athletic" player is almost always highly valued. Most football and basketball players don't need to develop a high degree of technical ability before puberty. There's so many times where a 16 year-old who never touched a football before, instantly became a star on the high-school football team. If you're already 6 foot in the 7th grade and have at least a modest amount of athletic ability, then you pretty much have a glide path to play college basketball. So basketball has conditioned us to identify early physical bloomers and football has conditioned us to prize the "big athletic" player without the need of strong technical foundation. And from soccer to toddler beauty pageants, we use our kids for competitive proxy wars as soon as they can walk.
I think that's why it's been so hard for us to make fast improvements in soccer because it's a team oriented "skills" sport which requires proper individual development and identification at the young ages with lower emphasis on high competition. It just goes against our culture, so we've been very slow to pivot. And it's possible we may never fully pivot.
However I think there might be one saving grace. Another aspect of our culture is that we glorify rich people and possibility of being rich ourselves. If the MLS/US Soccer ever complies with FIFA or starts their own youth training solidarity system where youth clubs can receive a percentage of future professional contracts of its players, then that might be a strong enough cross-wind to move the US youth soccer system away from uLittle blood-thirsty competitions and toward actually developing world class players that can command huge transfer fees. As a result you'll see less coaches recruiting oversized 9 year-olds and instead look for prodigy 9 year-olds who exhibit an advanced understanding of the game and technical ability for their age whether they're big or small. But the MLS does not want to compete against the world market for US homegrown players and as long as the system remains closed, then our youth system will continue to just glide along our innate cultural tendencies, which means we'll remain in our current state of mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Happy New Year.
I've been coming to the conclusion that the "big athletic" player and the desire to win right now is just ingrained in our culture. No other country starts highly competitive youth sports at such young ages. In most other countries, there are some youth sports but it's mostly at the recreational or community level. But whether it's soccer, pee-wee football, or baseball, we put our kids who often are barely out of diapers into high-stakes competitions with various flight levels. Most other countries kids at this age play for fun, but we push our kids to play to win. We demand that our uLittle coaches to play to win.
When it comes to our major sports football and baseball, the "big athletic" player is almost always highly valued. Most football and basketball players don't need to develop a high degree of technical ability before puberty. There's so many times where a 16 year-old who never touched a football before, instantly became a star on the high-school football team. If you're already 6 foot in the 7th grade and have at least a modest amount of athletic ability, then you pretty much have a glide path to play college basketball. So basketball has conditioned us to identify early physical bloomers and football has conditioned us to prize the "big athletic" player without the need of strong technical foundation. And from soccer to toddler beauty pageants, we use our kids for competitive proxy wars as soon as they can walk.
I think that's why it's been so hard for us to make fast improvements in soccer because it's a team oriented "skills" sport which requires proper individual development and identification at the young ages with lower emphasis on high competition. It just goes against our culture, so we've been very slow to pivot. And it's possible we may never fully pivot.
However I think there might be one saving grace. Another aspect of our culture is that we glorify rich people and possibility of being rich ourselves. If the MLS/US Soccer ever complies with FIFA or starts their own youth training solidarity system where youth clubs can receive a percentage of future professional contracts of its players, then that might be a strong enough cross-wind to move the US youth soccer system away from uLittle blood-thirsty competitions and toward actually developing world class players that can command huge transfer fees. As a result you'll see less coaches recruiting oversized 9 year-olds and instead look for prodigy 9 year-olds who exhibit an advanced understanding of the game and technical ability for their age whether they're big or small. But the MLS does not want to compete against the world market for US homegrown players and as long as the system remains closed, then our youth system will continue to just glide along our innate cultural tendencies, which means we'll remain in our current state of mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Happy New Year.
Citing pro or national level players in a discussion of u-littles misses the point. At the pro level its a different analysis because everybody on the pitch is big (enough), fast enough and skilled enough. The responsibility of "all" youth coaches is to develop every single kid you took money from and not to focus on the 1 big fast kid. Moreover various ethnic groups physically develop at different ages due to genetics and nutrition. That big fast kid who's nine years old very likely could be a small kid at 16.
This. "Big" at U10 or whatever often means they are as strong and fast as a U12. Sizes of adult players have nothing to do with it. Of course size can be "outskilled" even at young ages, but it can still be frustrating to see little Sally getting mowed over by a kid who looks two years older. What to do? Nothing but wait until it equals out.
Daniel Miller
SILVER ELITE
Let's go back to precise question posed by the original poster:
"What do you suggest a u10 team do with a big player, but one that isn't super skilled? They have flight 3 skill, but are in a flight 1 body. They (and their coach) use their size to their advantage and they are mauling smaller kids on the field."
In my view, there is one question: "what do you do with the unskilled big player,"followed by a complaint that the kid and his coach are "mauling smaller kids."
The answer to the call of the question is the same as for any player of any size: train the player to develop technical skills and body control.
The complaint requires more analysis. First, it wrongfully overgeneralizes all "big" players as "maulers." All of us know that "maulers" are the exception at U10, regardless of size. It is very rare to see a kid make an intentionally hard foul at that age. When fouls do occur, it is usually because of a loss of body control or because the player does not know how far he is allowed to go before playing hard becomes playing dangerously. Plenty of smaller kids and faster kids suffer the same problem, but their misdeeds are overlooked because they don't look different from other kids.
Second, it implies that it is wrong for big players to "use their size to their advantage." I disagree. Every player in club soccer has gifts and limitations, whether it is speed, smarts, strength, financial resources for extra training, family provenance, or size. You cannot tell a player not to use what God has gifted. You cannot punish a player for having tall genes or being an early maturer.
"What do you suggest a u10 team do with a big player, but one that isn't super skilled? They have flight 3 skill, but are in a flight 1 body. They (and their coach) use their size to their advantage and they are mauling smaller kids on the field."
In my view, there is one question: "what do you do with the unskilled big player,"followed by a complaint that the kid and his coach are "mauling smaller kids."
The answer to the call of the question is the same as for any player of any size: train the player to develop technical skills and body control.
The complaint requires more analysis. First, it wrongfully overgeneralizes all "big" players as "maulers." All of us know that "maulers" are the exception at U10, regardless of size. It is very rare to see a kid make an intentionally hard foul at that age. When fouls do occur, it is usually because of a loss of body control or because the player does not know how far he is allowed to go before playing hard becomes playing dangerously. Plenty of smaller kids and faster kids suffer the same problem, but their misdeeds are overlooked because they don't look different from other kids.
Second, it implies that it is wrong for big players to "use their size to their advantage." I disagree. Every player in club soccer has gifts and limitations, whether it is speed, smarts, strength, financial resources for extra training, family provenance, or size. You cannot tell a player not to use what God has gifted. You cannot punish a player for having tall genes or being an early maturer.
Good comments, but I am going to contest a couple of things. First, the OP made no over-generalization that "all" big players are maulers. He asked a question about a specific situation albeit one that comes up periodically. Second, "All of us" do not know that "maulers" are the exception at U10. They are not the rule either. However, they most certainly exist and it isn't a loss of body control. If they have a lack of knowledge about how far they can go its because they get inconsistent instruction on that from various actors. In any case, young soccer players will periodically encounter opponents who's go-to move is running over other players. (Just as they will encounter entire teams who doggedly try to keep the ball on the ground, keep shape, play out the back, etc.) I have most certainly seen larger U10 players intentionally foul with kicks, knees, grab and pull, two handed pushes, etc. Often, they get worse when they start to get frustrated by events on the field. Plenty of times this is accompanied by encouragement from the sideline (parents moreso).
I'm going to trust my eyes and ears on that one. Its just the way it is.
Thank you. Let me clarify a little more of my original question.
I noticed this past weekend 3 different kids that were quite a bit bigger than their teammates and opponents. 3 different teams.
Girl 1 - Big, fast and pretty skilled. Athletic body. She dominated the game and played the right way. May have been a guest, not that it matters
Girl 2 - Big, about average skill as the rest of the girls on the field. Looks like she would be dominant athlete. On a different level than Player 1 above, but decent.
Girl 3 - Big and physical. Didn't look quite as "athletic" as the other 2 girls. Hard to tell her skill level, because as soon as someone got close to her, she bowled them over. Her first move was to run girls over. She played in goal in the 2nd half, so maybe she would have shown more soccer skill as the game progressed.
All 3 kids were playing in the lower flight of a tournament.
Girl 1 - should probably be on a higher flighted team, but I understand there's a lot of reasons to keep her with them team she was with.
Girl 2 - In the right place.
Girl 3 - This is the type of player that caused my question. What level/flight does a player like this belong on? Most lower flighted teams are also filled with smaller (younger in the birth year) type of players. So this player uses her size to her advantage. She may not be doing it on purpose. And her coach may not be encouraging it. But it happens. Would she be better off against better players that won't get bumped around so easily, so she would have to work on skills more? Or is she better off on the lower team to work on skills with lower level opposition.
The clarification helps. I vote for the later "...she [is] better off on the lower team to work on skills with lower level opposition." Her size and the description of her play "bowling" over the competition leads me to believe that she would not be successful at the higher levels or with olders (bigger) because her skills need to be developed.
As far as game play is concerned, most experienced referees will call a charging foul whenever a player of greater size uses her arms/shoulders to "bowl over" a smaller player. When the players are of equal size the shoulder charge foul doesn't get called. The general guideline is large players cannot take advantage of their greater size and momentum to plow through an opponent. They must always be in control: able to stop if needed. A "bump" is different than using size/mass to "force" through an opponent.
About a month ago we played a team that had a girl that had really good skills, was super big (5-7 maybe at U12 with muscle), but also bowled over our girls. A foul was called at least 6-7 times. Didn't really help us as most of the time it was in the middle of the field and the free kick wasn't that helpful, but did result in a few of our girls coming off the field hurt. Shouldn't a player be carded after about 2-3 of these?
TangoCity
GOLD
Verbal warning then carded in most cases - factoring in age, severity of foul(s) and temperature of the game.
Yeah, but do they win?