Switching clubs next year questions...

[mirage]

Wez, its always ok to talk about what to do and when to do it on the forum, as you've suggested - I agree that this is an open forum for anyone to discuss matters that concerns or interests them.

The problem appears when we all get tangled up on "what's the right thing to do" kind of thinking. Everyone, including you and me, have our own bias and options about the subject.

So, when are you leaving your team and how soon?

We've moved our kids from one large club to two different clubs for the new season. We did it at the end of National Cup at the field for the older kid. We already had a team to go for the older kid. Worked on forming a new team with the coach and parents for over 6 months prior to leaving. Its a team made up of mostly ex-DA players who all wants to play high school from all over SoCal. I guess we started the idea up in September last year with some of the parents so not that far off from the OP. Just didn't discuss it with anyone outside of the core (new) team.

The younger kid's coach got a promotion (his day job) and could not continue so we found a new team in late May. So far worked out great but the coach we signed with is changing his role within the club so we'll have a new coach starting in September. The new coach sounds great on paper (just coming over from UK and was the ManU youth academy coach there, starting a new life in CA with his family) so we'll see.

 

[Wez]

Wez, its always ok to talk about what to do and when to do it on the forum, as you've suggested - I agree that this is an open forum for anyone to discuss matters that concerns or interests them.

It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for. Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.

 

[SCS Fan]

So if you try out and make a new team you are expected to play State Cup with your new team? Not your old team? I thought there was a roster freeze date for State Cup early on? Can you guest with your new team for State Cup? For example, my daughter plays 04 but is an 05. If she tries out and makes an 05 team could she not guest with them while still playing with her old team and fulfilling that commitment? This stuff is confusing!

The roster freeze dates for State cup will allow you to play for your old team or new team, you can check the Cal South website State Tournament Sections for roster freeze dates. I believe it actually is considered "Guesting" when you play State Cup with the new team, but you effectively leave your old team and start training with the new team, at least I can't imagine a coach having you play state cup with them when you are not practicing with them. Whether you play for the new team or the old team is a case by case situation. Some new teams want and need players and some don't. I think new teams will respect players wanting to honor commitment to old team, but again if they need players they will press to have you join with them. You need to be mindful that coaches (like players/parents) have self-interests and have their eye on next season. Coaches want to make sure they have full teams with the players they want and players/parents want to be in the best situation for the next season. It's tricky because it all overlaps.

 

[mirage]

It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for. Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.

The action or the intent is being called hypocrite (don't recall who said it) because it is being interpreted by that person as such. You can disagree just as the poster who expressed his opinion about it see it differently. It is as you say, "it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for." It is an open forum.

Don't confuse the expression of personal opinion with act of posting itself. The fact that you or I, do or do not agree with the poster is irrelevant in the context of the forum. Its just another opinion.

 

[Sped]

It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for. Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.

actually I called her a hypocrite for complaining about parents on the team who weren't loyal while she's on the board talking about how they're bolting the team. I have no problem with kids leaving teams. I just think it's funny that disloyal parents were one of her problems.

 

[mommato2girls]

Sped you are confusing my complaint with lack of commitment and loyalty. I didn't complain about loyalty. I complained about commitment. Not being comitted to bringing the girls to practice, games. Not making sure they're getting conditioning or being well rested. That is what I mean by being committed. I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team. She is there to help her team win, and wether they do or not she will play her hardest, practice her hardest and condition outside of practice. She takes pride in her effort, her soccer game no matter where she plays. We clearly disagree, not sure why this part of this post needs to be rehashed time and time again.

 

[jrcaesar]

I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team.

I agree with you. Loyalty is what a club/employer/organization buys when they pay you.

 

[Laced]

Well this thread certainly has evoked various perspectives and emotions from our community about changing teams and when. One of the things that make the subject so difficult is that we all have our own kid's vested interest.

If one removes the child and look at it purely as business relationship, then the following couple of things stand out:

1) One enters a contract for a season (as defined in each respective contract) and the termination clause are articulated within the contract (e.g., no refunds, may not be released to play for others and so on...). The contract implies that both parties will honor the terms. This include the signed players will not be dropped during the contract period, in favor of new/better player by the team/club side, and parents will not take the player out of the contract in favor of another team. It also typically includes that the club soccer is the priority sports for the player. There are things that change, like moving out of the area, player wants to quit playing, and so on. But for the most part, its a two-way agreement that is supposed to be honored by both sides.

2) Since its a business relationship, one has to look after the best interest of own benefit. Problems occur usually as results from the other party not living up to the expectations, implicit or explicit, when the agreement was signed. Once the failure to meet exceptions is established, there are various remedies that include corrective actions to get back on track to ending the relationship. The range is large and the remedy is different case by case (including the personality of the coach and the parents). If departure is selected during the contract period, CalSouth (governing body) will arbitrate and most often will force the club to release the player.

Like anything in business, ethics and integrity is a paramount - by both sides. Which now brings the discussion back to this thread. There is no simply if this, then that type of response that fits every situation, I believe. It is highly case-by-case situation.

Most club contracts stipulates the season as from the time of signing to the end of the State tournament. It is typically April~March for Younger and June~May for Olders. The notion of leaving your current team to go play State Cup with the new team, my sense, is a mistake. Because most teams want to sign you for the new upcoming season while the majority of the current team players have not renewed their contract. One has no idea if all, most, half or few players are coming back. This include the coach. Most coaches are on annual renewal and they change clubs just as players do for a better deal. I've seen a coach sign players up then move to a new club. It may or may not workout with the new coach the club assigns or if you've paid and want to follow the coach, its money lost in the transaction.

If you know that the new team is willing to have you kid just "guest" during the State tournament, and you move before the roster freeze date, maybe....

So, there you go....

Btw, the best way to get onto a new, good team is by skipping the official "Tryout" date and workout with the team prior to the official date. When I moved my then U12 kid years ago, I had him workout in January and secured a spot (verbal commitment only) with the new team while finishing State Cup with the old team. At the end of the tournament, we left and moved onto the new club. He attended one practice a week with the new team, while finishing with the old.

When you talk about contract, you're talking about a legally binding relationship. I don't know how to put it politely, but that's a very lame, laughable legal analysis by a layman.

 

[mirage]

When you talk about contract, you're talking about a legally binding relationship. I don't know how to put it politely, but that's a very lame, laughable legal analysis by a layman.

LOL, I agree. Its not meant as a legal analysis. You're probably a lawyer.

It was simply what a part of contract used by many clubs when they commit a player - for parents to sign it. And typical reasons why things go wrong - mismatch of expectations.

 

[Sped]

Sped you are confusing my complaint with lack of commitment and loyalty. I didn't complain about loyalty. I complained about commitment. Not being comitted to bringing the girls to practice, games. Not making sure they're getting conditioning or being well rested. That is what I mean by being committed. I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team. She is there to help her team win, and wether they do or not she will play her hardest, practice her hardest and condition outside of practice. She takes pride in her effort, her soccer game no matter where she plays. We clearly disagree, not sure why this part of this post needs to be rehashed time and time again.

Fair enough. But even then, is it the team or the club? Will next year's team be the same? My thought is that teams can be good or bad by season, but clubs tend to be pretty consistent one way or another. My kid left a club because of the club, not her team. In fact, she left the club despite her team.

 

[Laced]

LOL, I agree. Its not meant as a legal analysis. You're probably a lawyer.

It was simply what a part of contract used by many clubs when they commit a player - for parents to sign it. And typical reasons why things go wrong - mismatch of expectations.

You're a good sport.

It would be clearer and more constructive to talk about a legal or business relationship in terms of "meeting of the minds" or contractual duty or obligations. A party's expectation is just that without a meeting of the minds or a clearly-stated and mutually-agreed-to contractual duty. When parents sign their kids up for a club, they know they have a duty to pay club dues in return for proper coaching, but most if not all of them don't expect losing the ability to move their kids around if the club no longer fits their kids developmental needs or if the club fails to live up to its end of the bargain. Therefore, there's no "meeting of the minds." The duty to stay with the same club as a contractual duty is unilaterally imposed by CalSouth and clubs. How do we know that there's no meeting of the minds on the specific issue of player movement? Just look at the number of parents who're surprised that they can't move.

 

[espola]

The duty to stay with the same club as a contractual duty is unilaterally imposed by CalSouth and clubs.

No, it's not. Cal South recognizes the possibility of players changing clubs and manages it in an orderly way for minimal cost ($25 the last time I looked).

 

[Laced]

No, it's not. Cal South recognizes the possibility of players changing clubs and manages it in an orderly way for minimal cost ($25 the last time I looked).

As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.

CalSouth's transfer rules

If your release and transfer will occur during the Fall Roster Freeze period between August 1 and the first Monday after Thanksgiving, the following will apply:

• The Fall Season roster freeze period is from August 1st through the 1st Monday after Thanksgiving

• A Release and Transfer is only allowed during this time period when initiated online by the parent and uncontested by both the releasing and incoming club

- There is a maximum of 7 days for the releasing registrar to contest the transfer request online, otherwise the request is deemed approved

• If contested, the parent may appeal. The parent must initiate the appeal process within 3 days and pay the $100 appeal fee (refundable if transfer is granted on appeal). Otherwise, the transfer is denied

 

[espola]

As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.

CalSouth's transfer rules

If your release and transfer will occur during the Fall Roster Freeze period between August 1 and the first Monday after Thanksgiving, the following will apply:

• The Fall Season roster freeze period is from August 1st through the 1st Monday after Thanksgiving

• A Release and Transfer is only allowed during this time period when initiated online by the parent and uncontested by both the releasing and incoming club

- There is a maximum of 7 days for the releasing registrar to contest the transfer request online, otherwise the request is deemed approved

• If contested, the parent may appeal. The parent must initiate the appeal process within 3 days and pay the $100 appeal fee (refundable if transfer is granted on appeal). Otherwise, the transfer is denied

The overwhelming majority of transfers requested during the roster freeze period are granted without being contested. In those cases that were successfully contested (I assume you know of some, otherwise your response is pointless), what was the reason for not granting the transfer?

 

[espola]

As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.

For example???

 

[RoguePortero]

How would one assess a situation that results in three different coaches since March with last one being placed just after the August 1st deadline? Not trying to hijack that s thread but I think this is part of why this thread is so active. I think parents are concerned with the volatility of coaching staffs and the lack of consistency of coaching style and "development" vs. "win at all costs" philosophies, and the lack of personality management on teams.

 

[RuffRef]

Ha ha..ha.. My kid played this last year with 6 teams , on 4 Clubs in 6 months. it was an expiriment in creating relationships, and play soccer in different competitive atmospheres. TOTAL SUCCESS... different age groups, different skill levels, different game intensity.. Initially the club he signed and played with (late july 2018) was a championship team in the division and made it to state cup finals,,(it dragged on many weeks). This was our first year in club,,i didnt know how the process worked. Our DOC decided he'd keep charging me additional fee monthly well beyond the payment window. (i was blind) I noticed he start acting funny,,, and tried to pacify me with hats and t=shirts..... As state cup passed 75% of the team jumped ship for other teams keen to parlay on the success. My son was the one of two "loyal" guys still bailing water out the boat. The age group going into a new format needed 8-9 players. so there were no games or scrimages for 6 weeks , player shortages , and at times 4 kids at practice. We ask to play as a guest for another team, the coach refused,,, said he'd never let "my player" play elsewhere. Thats when i called CalSouth and found out the rules, roster freezes etc.. of being a guest player and Summer pass player card. My son ended up playing 28 games plus many practices/scrimmages over spring / summer with other teams. and those coaches were happy to have him even thou he was not going to commit for the 2019 season. My kid made Tons of friends , played every weekend for free, or paid tourney fee. developed 3-5 xtimes over, whats great is there is an open door for him to come again and guest with some of the teams he played with. And in my opinion the development you get in spring /summer is greater than during the season when coaches are concentrating on winning games.
Leave,,,,, just leave on good terms, and always keep the communication line tight as you move forward. You never know where that coach or admin person will be in the future. Be good to people,,,they will be good to you
i currently ask to play in games and tournaments i know they wont allow my kid to play in,,,, just to let them know "were still interested"!! knowing the rules is half the battle.