Substitution Rules

Surfref said:
In the games that I referee (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) that have restrictions on substitutions, the referee crew tracks the substitutions. It is easy to track the substitutions if the referee crew requires the player to completely leave the field of play before the new player can come on. SCDSL, ECNL and DA all allow the referee to add time at the end of each half, so there is no reason why referee crew would not be able to track the substitutes. I know that not all referees track the subs in these leagues, because I have had coaches try to put players back in the game after they have been subbed out. When I tell them that their player cannot reenter for the half, their response is usually, "The other referees let us do it." And, my response is usually, "Evidently they did not read the (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) rules."
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A few years back we had a S-20 team playing in USL. That league allowed every player to enter once per half. The league setup was both teams on the same side of the field, with a scorer's table at center line on that side. On that table were placed the game record sheets and the player cards. The referees that knew what they were doing took the player cards from each player as they entered the half, including at the start of each half. Once they had a player's card, he could sub out, but he wasn't getting back in.
 
espola said:
... The referees that knew what they were doing took the player cards from each player as they entered the half, including at the start of each half. Once they had a player's card, he could sub out, but he wasn't getting back in.
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This is exactly what I observed several years ago when my son's DD played SCDSL Tier 1. No entry as a sub without handing the AR their player card. Cards returned at the interval to manage subs for the second half.
 
socalkdg said:
....What are the high school rules? Is it unlimited? Seem to remember a girl being subbed in for throw ins when near the opponents goal.
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High School has unlimited substitutions. There are limits as to when a team can substitute. Only sub on own throw-in or corner kick, both teams on goal kick, after a goal, halftime. Can sub when a card is given or for an injury. Can also sub when the other team subs. Cannot sub on a foul (direct free kick/PK) or infraction (Indirect free kick suck as offside).
 
Surfref said:
In the games that I referee (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) that have restrictions on substitutions, the referee crew tracks the substitutions. It is easy to track the substitutions if the referee crew requires the player to completely leave the field of play before the new player can come on. SCDSL, ECNL and DA all allow the referee to add time at the end of each half, so there is no reason why referee crew would not be able to track the substitutes. I know that not all referees track the subs in these leagues, because I have had coaches try to put players back in the game after they have been subbed out. When I tell them that their player cannot reenter for the half, their response is usually, "The other referees let us do it." And, my response is usually, "Evidently they did not read the (SCDSL, ECNL, etc.) rules."
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SCDSL rules specifically say it is up to coaches to manage the re-entries.
 
Unlimited substitution is always the best policy. It allows games to be played at the highest intensity for the greatest percentage of time. If you want players to "develop" their skills and decision-making process, then high-speed, high-intensity games is the only way to go.

Sure, some players will "develop" their ability to "pace themselves" if there are fewer substitutions, but who cares about that? I want to see kids who can play hard; not rest hard.
 
u19 National Cup last year was no re-entry, you had to give the player cards of those on the field to the linesman, when a player went in he would hand his card to the linesman. If you were out of cards you were out of subs. At the end of the first half you got all your cards back and did the same thing in the second half.

Limiting subs at the older ages teaches kids to work it out and develop solutions. It keeps coaches from joy sticking the game, forces them to actually develop a plan and train the team to execute it and not just yank a player for a mistake.

It also prevents the mindless substitution to just kill time at the end of games, how frustrating is it in a 1-0 game when a coach makes a substitution on every deadball and there is 15 subs in the last 5 minutes for no other purpose than to waste time.
 
gauchosean said:
u19 National Cup last year was no re-entry, you had to give the player cards of those on the field to the linesman, when a player went in he would hand his card to the linesman. If you were out of cards you were out of subs. At the end of the first half you got all your cards back and did the same thing in the second half.

Limiting subs at the older ages teaches kids to work it out and develop solutions. It keeps coaches from joy sticking the game, forces them to actually develop a plan and train the team to execute it and not just yank a player for a mistake.

It also prevents the mindless substitution to just kill time at the end of games, how frustrating is it in a 1-0 game when a coach makes a substitution on every deadball and there is 15 subs in the last 5 minutes for no other purpose than to waste time.
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Great post. Thanks.

I really agree with your last statement.
 
gauchosean said:
u19 National Cup last year was no re-entry, you had to give the player cards of those on the field to the linesman, when a player went in he would hand his card to the linesman. If you were out of cards you were out of subs. At the end of the first half you got all your cards back and did the same thing in the second half.

Limiting subs at the older ages teaches kids to work it out and develop solutions. It keeps coaches from joy sticking the game, forces them to actually develop a plan and train the team to execute it and not just yank a player for a mistake.

It also prevents the mindless substitution to just kill time at the end of games, how frustrating is it in a 1-0 game when a coach makes a substitution on every deadball and there is 15 subs in the last 5 minutes for no other purpose than to waste time.
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The referee has the power to add time lost due to time-wasting.
 
I have seen a lot of bad coaches follow the limited substitution method even when they didn't half to. Easy for them, bad for the kids. In most cases a little less than half the team basically play less than half the game. Developmental league my but.
 
Round said:
I have seen a lot of bad coaches follow the limited substitution method even when they didn't half to. Easy for them, bad for the kids. In most cases a little less than half the team basically play less than half the game. Developmental league my but.
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If you're going to play in a competitive league, it's only fair that you earn your spot. Players should compete for spots unless it's a show case or recruitment event where you want every player to get an equal chance at being seen.
 
Just a Parent said:
If you're going to play in a competitive league, it's only fair that you earn your spot. Players should compete for spots unless it's a show case or recruitment event where you want every player to get an equal chance at being seen.
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I don't play, my kid does. Maybe that's the problem. Anyway, if you put the kid on your team, specifically at the younger ages, you are a failure and a fraud as a coach if you don't play that kid. Or if you make money of the system and support it.
 
Round said:
I don't play, my kid does. Maybe that's the problem. Anyway, if you put the kid on your team, specifically at the younger ages, you are a failure and a fraud as a coach if you don't play that kid. Or if you make money of the system and support it.
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I do make money off the system and support it. I also support the notion of kids earning their spots. I also support the notion of placing kids in teams and in leagues/playing circuits where they belong, are successful and enjoy the experience.
 
The reality is that most of these sub rules are not followed by the match officals. This especially holds true in the scdsl. Yes in National cup, and the DA. But Ive seen a many of DA matches where the subs flowed freely and unlimited. Also there is some value in these rules as their is a part of The Beautiful Game that IS about endurance and pace. These aspects of the game are not developed by teams/Coaches that run shift after shift of subs so as to attempt to high press for the majority of the match. The world does not play soccer that way. Even the NCAA which has limits (lax ones) is looking to change these rules/laws so as to make the college game more in line with the world game. Unlimited substitution is not the best answer, as it too often turns the game and players not into great soccer players, but places too much value on stamina, speed, size of rooster, and willingness/focus on coach winning MOT developing skilled players. Also as has been previously stated too many coaches effectively use sub'n as a way to waste time. Also refs for the most part they have limited ability (and incentive) to add time.
 
Bootizila said:
The reality is that most of these sub rules are not followed by the match officals. This especially holds true in the scdsl. Yes in National cup, and the DA. But Ive seen a many of DA matches where the subs flowed freely and unlimited. . . . .
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That's not true at all. No referee who does DA matches will allow substitutions not allowed by competition rules.

As for SCDSL, it would be easy for match officials to control substitutions but as I mentioned earlier, per competitition rules it is up to coaches to control the reentries.
 
Just a Parent said:
That's not true at all. No referee who does DA matches will allow substitutions not allowed by competition rules.

As for SCDSL, it would be easy for match officials to control substitutions but as I mentioned earlier, per competitition rules it is up to coaches to control the reentries.
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Sorry Just A Parent, but it's true. And it's true here in So Cal. I have seen several DA matches (Not a lot, but some) that have not followed the USSDA rules as it relates to subs. As for SCDSL its the wild west. If the rule is being selectively enforced why included it? I coached a match early this season where I had 13 healthy players in a 11v11 match (mid day, turf, 90's) and the official gave me a warning regarding substitutions, so we were forced to play short (After a player came off due to injury).
 
Just a Parent said:
SCDSL rules specifically say it is up to coaches to manage the re-entries.
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They also say that the referee is to be familiar with these procedures. We are also told by our associations and assignors to monitor them. So we do. It's not difficult, although it would be easier if they adopted the card systems used by ECNL and other circuits.
 
Daniel Miller said:
Unlimited substitution is always the best policy. It allows games to be played at the highest intensity for the greatest percentage of time. If you want players to "develop" their skills and decision-making process, then high-speed, high-intensity games is the only way to go.

Sure, some players will "develop" their ability to "pace themselves" if there are fewer substitutions, but who cares about that? I want to see kids who can play hard; not rest hard.
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Unlimited subs only gives the appearance the game is played at a higher skill level and intensity level, because all players have fresh legs at all times. Players don't get a chance to test their skills with fatigued legs. Unlimited subs benefits clubs more than players, as clubs get to have a very large roster, and by rotating players give the appearance that everyone gets game time. Game minutes are finite, and limited subs would force clubs to have smaller, more reasonable roster size, but would reduce club profit.
 
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