Stop the Madness!!! Tryouts November 12th?

Surfref said:
It should be regulated like club volleyball. V-ball has a set time frame that tryouts can be held. I always thought that tryouts were a little ridiculous for club soccer. Every time after G12 my daughter wanted to move teams we contacted the coaches for the teams she was interested in and let them know when and where she was playing and sometimes sent video/link. ALL of the coaches saw at least a half of her games and would contact us by email or phone and ask her to come out to practice with the team. This was easier than driving her all over SD county going to tryouts.
Click to expand...

Volleyball at least tries to do it right. They still have “camps” which act as tryouts. And there’s still some back room dealings to get certain kids on certain teams. But the tryout and offer window is great.
My understanding is that guest players and club passes are not allowed. You play with the team you sign with. No filling in for injuries. No grabbing players from flight 1 teams to play on flight 3 teams in tournaments.
 
timbuck said:
Volleyball at least tries to do it right. They still have “camps” which act as tryouts. And there’s still some back room dealings to get certain kids on certain teams. But the tryout and offer window is great.
My understanding is that guest players and club passes are not allowed. You play with the team you sign with. No filling in for injuries. No grabbing players from flight 1 teams to play on flight 3 teams in tournaments.
Click to expand...

One of my son's HS friends was a very tall girl who played on both basketball and volleyball teams until she settled on VB. When I asked her why, she said that when you collide with someone on a volleyball court, it's one of your friends.
 
Paul Spacey said:
After Thanksgiving (at the earliest) means that CSL and SCDSL are over and many kids/parents have had at least one weekend off from soccer. We were naive when we setup our club initially and did open tryouts in Feb/Mar, only to realize many kids committed to clubs in Jan (some even earlier). Lesson learned. We usually have kids come out to practice with our teams once or twice and play in a scrimmage but not until December at least (and mostly not until the new year).

None of our existing players lose their spots on the roster until after State Cup so we don't often make changes before then anyway; the only way anyone leaves before Feb is if they choose to join another club (and that scenario hasn't happened to us before State Cup in the 3 years we've been formed). The only way any new players come in before Feb is if we already have an open spot. We carry a maximum of 16 players on our rosters and with a couple of teams having 15 this season, we do have one or two spots open for players that could essentially join from Dec onwards. I know many clubs carry more than that (and some carry less) but for me it's a playing time issue. Getting 5 subs playing time is tough enough; any more than that and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

The tryout season and madness of it all is equal parts laughable and shocking. I understand kids and parents being unhappy with their situation and wanting to leave but for me there should be an element of making a commitment to a team and your teammates, then seeing that through (on the part of both club and player). Of course, if there are extreme circumstances (such as a crazy coach or the team not being able to raise enough players for games), it makes sense that you would want to move ASAP and break any commitment.

Tryouts get earlier every year and the whole tryout process seems to get messier every year. I don't know what the solution is, I'll be honest.
Click to expand...
Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size. However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes. It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament. Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size. However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes. It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament. Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked playing State or National Cup is NOT mandatory.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size. However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes. It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament. Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.
Click to expand...

I thought it was, but maybe that was only in the days of promotion and relegation. Now with coaches and DOCs (and parents, too, right?) able to choose their own competition levels, maybe not so much.
 
timbuck said:
For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

And for older- High School soccer season is done Feb 1. Why is state cup not played until March 30?

I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.
Click to expand...

Last scheduled game for the two closest local high schools (rivalry game where they play each other) is Feb 8. Almost half the teams will be playing as much as a couple weeks more in Section playoffs, followed by a week of half-state championships which for this upcoming season ends Mar 2.
 
Paul Spacey said:
After Thanksgiving (at the earliest) means that CSL and SCDSL are over and many kids/parents have had at least one weekend off from soccer. We were naive when we setup our club initially and did open tryouts in Feb/Mar, only to realize many kids committed to clubs in Jan (some even earlier). Lesson learned. We usually have kids come out to practice with our teams once or twice and play in a scrimmage but not until December at least (and mostly not until the new year).

None of our existing players lose their spots on the roster until after State Cup so we don't often make changes before then anyway; the only way anyone leaves before Feb is if they choose to join another club (and that scenario hasn't happened to us before State Cup in the 3 years we've been formed). The only way any new players come in before Feb is if we already have an open spot. We carry a maximum of 16 players on our rosters and with a couple of teams having 15 this season, we do have one or two spots open for players that could essentially join from Dec onwards. I know many clubs carry more than that (and some carry less) but for me it's a playing time issue. Getting 5 subs playing time is tough enough; any more than that and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

The tryout season and madness of it all is equal parts laughable and shocking. I understand kids and parents being unhappy with their situation and wanting to leave but for me there should be an element of making a commitment to a team and your teammates, then seeing that through (on the part of both club and player). Of course, if there are extreme circumstances (such as a crazy coach or the team not being able to raise enough players for games), it makes sense that you would want to move ASAP and break any commitment.

Tryouts get earlier every year and the whole tryout process seems to get messier every year. I don't know what the solution is, I'll be honest.
Click to expand...
I've learned that there are micro-markets in club soccer when it comes to tryouts. What Paul is describing is accurate and works in West LA, where his club is located. While it's true that some kids commit in January, there are still big clubs on the westside that have Feb/March open tryouts (post-State Cup) and all start letting kids come to practices in December/January. Moreover, all westside clubs, as far as I know, keep kids on through State Cup and most don't require existing players to commit for next year until around March-April.

It's really the OC/San Diego clubs that have been moving open tryouts earlier and earlier and have been pressuring early sign-ups etc. My sense is that this is because there is much more competition for players with more clubs and a wider range of options, travel-wise. On the westside, there's only about 4-5 clubs that might even have open tryouts (plus a few very small ones that don't even have a team in all age groups/genders). A few players could leave to go to South Bay, Valley, or downtown clubs, but that's typically only for DA or unique circumstances.
 
Dargle said:
I've learned that there are micro-markets in club soccer when it comes to tryouts. What Paul is describing is accurate and works in West LA, where his club is located. While it's true that some kids commit in January, there are still big clubs on the westside that have Feb/March open tryouts (post-State Cup) and all start letting kids come to practices in December/January. Moreover, all westside clubs, as far as I know, keep kids on through State Cup and most don't require existing players to commit for next year until around March-April.

It's really the OC/San Diego clubs that have been moving open tryouts earlier and earlier and have been pressuring early sign-ups etc. My sense is that this is because there is much more competition for players with more clubs and a wider range of options, travel-wise. On the westside, there's only about 4-5 clubs that might even have open tryouts (plus a few very small ones that don't even have a team in all age groups/genders). A few players could leave to go to South Bay, Valley, or downtown clubs, but that's typically only for DA or unique circumstances.
Click to expand...

This is informative. I do sense that your 'big clubs' and 'very small ones without a team in all age groups' comments mean that you are affiliated with a so-called 'big' club (whatever that means in youth soccer). I may be wrong if you're just an informed observer.

The main point of my post was that IMO clubs should take on a player and keep that player for the season to 'develop' them (regardless of their 'micro-market'), without the risk of being cut or replaced just 3 or 4 months into the season. Now, that's an alien concept to many clubs, I appreciate that. Recruitment to win supersedes actual development for way too many clubs and coaches in youth soccer but whatever, good luck to them.

The extra competition between clubs in OC/San Diego is obviously a factor like you suggest but does that mean everyone should just throw their morals out of the window and make it a race against time to snap up as many players as possible, as early as possible while cutting others to make room for them?

Forget it, what the hell am I talking about. I'll stop typing and just knock my head against my apartment wall a few hundred times; nothing is going to change is it.
 
Blame the clubs or blame the parents?

Parents sign on with a club with the expectation that they will start with the new club once state cup ends. They may sign anytime from November until the start of the Fall season.
But as soon as they sign on and they see the new team play their first game, they start looking around for next year. Their kid didn't play enough. The team got killed. Their kid played in a new position. There was a parent on the sideline that rubbed them the wrong way. The coach is too loud. The coach is too quiet.
Parents of players that are of similar strength start having sidebar conversations about trying to keep these top players together by all going to the same tryouts and trying to find a stronger team.

Clubs start the tryout process early to get ahead of any surprises on who is leaving. Most clubs would prefer to keep their team as-is through State Cup. But if they wait until the end of February, most players have already made a decision to leave. If a club has a full roster and 2 kids that are complete studs show up, it's bad news for the bottom 2 players on the roster. It's actually bad news for everyone on the roster because these 2 star players knock everyone down a notch. (Some would argue this is good for the team - It's pushing existing players to improve.)

Coaches start shopping for new options around this time of year too. A variety of reasons:
  • Their existing club didn't support the coach with players (IE - they didn't help recruit. They took the 2 best players from the B team and put them on the A team. So now the B team lost every game and the 13 remaining players are all looking around).
  • Their existing club didn't pay them properly (late payments, short payment, required them to be at the field more than was originally expected).
  • Their existing club hired someone new to be a director or take on a the A team, when it was promised to this coach before.
  • A new club offered them more money or a higher level position.
And now that clubs are able to field 5+ teams in an age group, it's rare that a player doesn't get offered a spot with the club. They may wind up on the A or the E team, but the club will offer a spot. So they sign on. And then a month before the season starts, the team they are on only has 12 players.
 
The "show up at another team's practice" tryouts have already begun. I won't say that showing up at open tryouts (without prior exposure to the club) is worthless but it's not very effective. I can't speak for OC or LA, but San Diego is a pretty small soccer community. On the boys side (probably U11 and above), it seems that the top tier kids are known by at least a few clubs. It's rare that an unknown commodity, unless they've moved in from out-of-town, makes a top team. For the most part it seems to be just more of shuffling the same pool of kids between Surf, Albion, Rebels, LAGSD and SDSC.
 
timbuck said:
Blame the clubs or blame the parents?

Parents sign on with a club with the expectation that they will start with the new club once state cup ends. They may sign anytime from November until the start of the Fall season.
But as soon as they sign on and they see the new team play their first game, they start looking around for next year. Their kid didn't play enough. The team got killed. Their kid played in a new position. There was a parent on the sideline that rubbed them the wrong way. The coach is too loud. The coach is too quiet.
Parents of players that are of similar strength start having sidebar conversations about trying to keep these top players together by all going to the same tryouts and trying to find a stronger team.

Clubs start the tryout process early to get ahead of any surprises on who is leaving. Most clubs would prefer to keep their team as-is through State Cup. But if they wait until the end of February, most players have already made a decision to leave. If a club has a full roster and 2 kids that are complete studs show up, it's bad news for the bottom 2 players on the roster. It's actually bad news for everyone on the roster because these 2 star players knock everyone down a notch. (Some would argue this is good for the team - It's pushing existing players to improve.)

Coaches start shopping for new options around this time of year too. A variety of reasons:
  • Their existing club didn't support the coach with players (IE - they didn't help recruit. They took the 2 best players from the B team and put them on the A team. So now the B team lost every game and the 13 remaining players are all looking around).
  • Their existing club didn't pay them properly (late payments, short payment, required them to be at the field more than was originally expected).
  • Their existing club hired someone new to be a director or take on a the A team, when it was promised to this coach before.
  • A new club offered them more money or a higher level position.
And now that clubs are able to field 5+ teams in an age group, it's rare that a player doesn't get offered a spot with the club. They may wind up on the A or the E team, but the club will offer a spot. So they sign on. And then a month before the season starts, the team they are on only has 12 players.
Click to expand...
Great points; blame both. Or just blame Trump.
 
get cups done in December, exception probably being HS ages. Seasons end around the 12-18th. Playoffs for a couple weeks. Cups right after. Release players Dec31 or first week of Jan. Wont have real time to have tryouts, some might, but most will be busy. Sometimes people who make rules arent the most logical or bow to those feeding the $$$$
 
Keepers_Keeper said:
I knew my DD was going to be a goalkeeper the way she dove from side to side while en utero. Just kidding :) Thanks for the laugh tho - it is totally ridiculous how intense it is getting for little players. Let them have fun!
Click to expand...
Glad you got a laugh out of my post. My wife didn’t tell me anything in particular about my son in the womb, but I do know that when he came out, he almost always had some kind of ball in his hand. I thought from a young age he would be an athlete- I thought a quarterback at first- but fairly soon, it became apparent that he loved soccer (and goalkeeping) so he just gravitated in that direction. I wouldn’t change anything about that decision, and with him now going into his junior year of high school and 3rd year of varsity, it has been a fun journey to be on with him.
 
timbuck said:
For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

And for older- High School soccer season is done Feb 1. Why is state cup not played until March 30?

I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.
Click to expand...

HS season runs through the beginning of March unless your HS team does not make the playoffs, then it ends mid-February.
 
Tryouts for what the parents? Let try to see if we can try to get more $$$ eariler.

Do real tryouts even exist anymore? past the small sided ages when they are starting.

U9 is the last time I recall either of our kids attending a tryout even through changes in clubs, teams, leagues, da, ecnl, etc almost everyone seems to be known before hand at certain levels without any tryout unless your new to the scene/area.
 
The only one that loses are the kids. They basically get no breaks because once November comes around, it's tryouts in December and January, state Cup January/February for youngers. Then it's soccer practice with the new or old team. It would be great if Calsouth had a mandatory break in December, May and June to give these kids a break.

By the time they get to high school a lot of boys drop out to check out other sports. Happened to both of my boys.
 
Sometimes it’s soccer practice with the new AND the old team.
Don’t want to leave them hanging for state cup but they new coach wants you to become part of the team ASAP.
 
timbuck said:
For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

And for older- High School soccer season is done Feb 1. Why is state cup not played until March 30?

I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.
Click to expand...

Here in SoCal, State and National Cup for youngers (U14 and earlier) takes just under 3 months to complete. Heck, just getting the kids off to a start (Jan 19 - Feb 23) takes 5 weeks for the youngers when you consider Mayors, Governors, Presidents and National Cup teams. We could do it in 3 to 4 weeks as you suggest IF there were 2x more sports complexes, double the Cal South staff and parents were OK with playing games during the middle of the week and right up until Xmas. We would also need to petition God or whoever controls the weather to make sure it doesn't rain during that extremely short window.
 
I do find the San Diego big clubs’ practice of new teams being put together before State Cup can create some pretty awkward team dynamics with the old team.

Just out of curiosity I checked the Cal North website, it looks like their youngers play State Cup in December. I wonder why Cal South doesn’t do that? Do we have many more teams?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top