SoCal Schedule

[The Soccer Dr]

Academically, I think you're right. If there was no way to judge how "good" the teams were across platform, it would be foolish to try. Each could (and does) claim to be "the best", and there's no way to discount their own generous interpretation.

But in the real world right now, one would have to cover their ears/eyes to pretend that there's no way to determine which league(s) are "best". From a recruiting standpoint, all one needs to do is look at where top colleges are recruiting from. From a financial standpoint, all one needs to do is look at where leagues are expanding/contracting. From a team performance standpoint, all one needs to do is look at SR or any other valid/objective rating system. Even though there is primarily a closed system, there is more than enough interplay to make the differences quite clear.

Pushing for "Open Access" is a perfectly noble goal, it's just never going to happen because it's in nobody's individual best interest for it to happen. What's more likely to happen is that things keep sliding in one direction, with single leagues increasing/maintaining dominance until a splinter league finally decides to challenge it.

You accurately describe the "real world" but that does not make it right or acceptable to the majority of clubs, teams, coaches, and families in Southern California. Open access is not a noble goal it is common sense on all levels. I agree the people who bennefit most from the current "flawed" system will push back, fight, kick, and scream, but when the majority of clubs, teams, coaches and families would benefit from the common sense approach - less travel, lower costs, less time, and greater value - then I believe it is something clubs, teams, coaches and families should start to support.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Again, I think it's a noble goal. It's just patently unworkable within the timeframe of anyone actually participating in youth soccer at the moment. Incentives need to change. Those wanting the change have very little power to change the incentives much at all. Until that happens, it's just a nice thought.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

Again, I think it's a noble goal. It's just patently unworkable within the timeframe of anyone actually participating in youth soccer at the moment. Incentives need to change. Those wanting the change have very little power to change the incentives much at all. Until that happens, it's just a nice thought.

Your schetisigm is understandable since the current situation has been evolving for a number of years, but the power lies with the clubs, teams, and coaches who select where they will play. They can select a structure that is open not closed (eliminate the politics), independent (not controlled by club(s), plays a local to regional structure (minimize travel and expense), has competitive integrity (no self flight choice, no playing down, no roster changes at anytime), no weaponization of schedule (8:00am games 2hrs away), where results of the game mean something, and where the rules are applied evenly (without massive fines). These choices provide access to play, lower costs, and creates a competitive environment that everyone can trust. The clubs, teams, coaches have the power, they just need to use it.

 

[Grace T.]

Your schetisigm is understandable since the current situation has been evolving for a number of years, but the power lies with the clubs, teams, and coaches who select where they will play. They can select a structure that is open not closed (eliminate the politics), independent (not controlled by club(s), plays a local to regional structure (minimize travel and expense), has competitive integrity (no self flight choice, no playing down, no roster changes at anytime), no weaponization of schedule (8:00am games 2hrs away), where results of the game mean something, and where the rules are applied evenly (without massive fines). These choices provide access to play, lower costs, and creates a competitive environment that everyone can trust. The clubs, teams, coaches have the power, they just need to use it.

What fantasy world are you living in? Coaches? Coaches have no power over where their teams play…that’s with the clubs. And the clubs? A group controls access to the highest league which on the boys side is mlsn. Have access? Players flock because coaches and academies now primarily recruit out of the mlsn events. Don’t have access? We’ll talk to ayso united…oh right….they don’t exist anymore. . Pro rel? We tried that too. It didn’t work either and doesn’t give the academies what they need, which is ultimately the tail wagging the dog.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Your schetisigm is understandable since the current situation has been evolving for a number of years, but the power lies with the clubs, teams, and coaches who select where they will play. They can select a structure that is open not closed (eliminate the politics), independent (not controlled by club(s), plays a local to regional structure (minimize travel and expense), has competitive integrity (no self flight choice, no playing down, no roster changes at anytime), no weaponization of schedule (8:00am games 2hrs away), where results of the game mean something, and where the rules are applied evenly (without massive fines). These choices provide access to play, lower costs, and creates a competitive environment that everyone can trust. The clubs, teams, coaches have the power, they just need to use it.

This is like trying to convince someone driving a Ferrari that they should be driving a Chevy because its somehow "better".

It will never happen.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

This is like trying to convince someone driving a Ferrari that they should be driving a Chevy because its somehow "better".

It will never happen.

No, it is a club, team, or coach on the outside preaching the same message as the clubs in the closed league system, you strengthen their argument and create a lose, lose. If the only value being offered is player development, winning, and college scholarships, then those clubs who control those messages - MLS, ECNL - will always have the edge. They won't let you in and they will keep the scales tipped in their favor. The clubs, teams, and coaches frustrated with the current system have to change it. First recognize the parent as the customer - they pay the bills, drive the kids to practice and games, and decide if the experience is worth what they are paying -engage the parent in a greater value - of course they will learn soccer skills but add life skill development in a real way. State the values the team operates on, what are the life skills are that they will learn by being in the club/on the team. State this up front, reenforce it each practice and on game day, and reward players who show commitment to it every week. Preaching the same message and offering the same value is what they want, offering greater value and delivering it differentiates the club/team. The clubs on the outside are NOT all Chevy's, and the clubs on the inside are not all Ferrari's, the way you demonstrate which one you are is by engaging parents in the greater value of their child being in your club/team, delivering that value every week, and recognize those players that commit to those values week in week out. And play in an open league that is independent, applies rules fairly and evenly, and rewards results on the field - results achieved by the hard work of a good coach, and a group of players dedicated to the team ethos - you might describe that as a Ferrari.

 

[Grace T.]

This is like trying to convince someone driving a Ferrari that they should be driving a Chevy because its somehow "better".

It will never happen.

Good example. Oh remembers the 80s when they tried to convince Americans to buy the clunkers Detroit was putting out instead of the Toyotas (let alone Ferraris and bmws)? “Buy American!” There was even a movie I recall…Gung Ho. It worked about as well.

The thing that spun the us auto industry back was they discovered the suv (govt has a role…regulations killed the station wagon along with national lampoons vacation). We aren’t going back to the Detroit glory days or pro rel. it didn’t work. No one is voluntarily going to clonk themselves in the head and break up mlsn. Like the suv, someone’s got to figure out a side step. Govt may need to intervene to break up the cartel behavior.

 

[Grace T.]

No, it is a club, team, or coach on the outside preaching the same message as the clubs in the closed league system, you strengthen their argument and create a lose, lose. If the only value being offered is player development, winning, and college scholarships, then those clubs who control those messages - MLS, ECNL - will always have the edge. They won't let you in and they will keep the scales tipped in their favor. The clubs, teams, and coaches frustrated with the current system have to change it. First recognize the parent as the customer - they pay the bills, drive the kids to practice and games, and decide if the experience is worth what they are paying -engage the parent in a greater value - of course they will learn soccer skills but add life skill development in a real way. State the values the team operates on, what are the life skills are that they will learn by being in the club/on the team. State this up front, reenforce it each practice and on game day, and reward players who show commitment to it every week. Preaching the same message and offering the same value is what they want, offering greater value and delivering it differentiates the club/team. The clubs on the outside are NOT all Chevy's, and the clubs on the inside are not all Ferrari's, the way you demonstrate which one you are is by engaging parents in the greater value of their child being in your club/team, delivering that value every week, and recognize those players that commit to those values week in week out. And play in an open league that is independent, applies rules fairly and evenly, and rewards results on the field - results achieved by the hard work of a good coach, and a group of players dedicated to the team ethos - you might describe that as a Ferrari.

We know what the Ferrari is…the Ferrari is a pro contract with an academy. We know what the bmw is….look by college scouts now which (because of international numbers) takes place almost exclusively at mls n tournaments (and to a lesser extent the ecnl championships) on the boys side. Your good Cadillac doesn’t stand a chance in that market.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

We know what the Ferrari is…the Ferrari is a pro contract with an academy. We know what the bmw is….look by college scouts now which (because of international numbers) takes place almost exclusively at mls n tournaments (and to a lesser extent the ecnl championships) on the boys side. Your good Cadillac doesn’t stand a chance in that market.

Your commentary has merit if all your selling is winning, and college scholarships, but not if you are selling more. How many players who wear the badge of a club claiming to be a Ferrari are disappointed with the experience, don't win anything and get no were near a college scholarship. But based upon "a promise" they paid thousands of dollars drove/flew thousands of miles, and were left disappointed. Running 5 or 6 teams in an age bracket is not development it's a financial plan. There are teams that do deserve to be recognized, but not every team playing in a club is a top team or able to compete at the highest level. A system where performance on the field doesn't matter is a flawed system. A system where great teams, coaches, and players are dismissed because the incumbent clubs would rather continue with their recruit and steal model is broken. The USSF is not going to fix it, only the clubs, teams, and coaches can.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

Good example. Oh remembers the 80s when they tried to convince Americans to buy the clunkers Detroit was putting out instead of the Toyotas (let alone Ferraris and bmws)? “Buy American!” There was even a movie I recall…Gung Ho. It worked about as well.

The thing that spun the us auto industry back was they discovered the suv (govt has a role…regulations killed the station wagon along with national lampoons vacation). We aren’t going back to the Detroit glory days or pro rel. it didn’t work. No one is voluntarily going to clonk themselves in the head and break up mlsn. Like the suv, someone’s got to figure out a side step. Govt may need to intervene to break up the cartel behavior.

There is no need to break the current model, it is here to stay, is established, and is supported by the USSF because it serves its Player ID effort. The USSF is not coming to save the day, the latest Pathways Strategy is flawed out the gate. Just look at the N1L here is Southern California, NPL rebranded, more travel, more money, and weaponized scheduling. If you give the Fox control of the hen house don't be surprised when you lose some chickens. Clubs, teams, and coaches in Southern California unhappy with the current model have to create the new one, not by breaking what exists but by adding to it. Southern California is the largest, most successful soccer region in the US, it offers the perfect platform for creating a system that works. You assert that Promotion & Relegation didn't work - Why? Competition is the essence of sport, all of the leagues you applaud operate leagues that offer standings, the only difference is there is no consequence at the end of the season. Open access is better than a closed system, local play leading to regional play would work perfectly in Southern California. There are a lot of good clubs, coaches, teams and players between San Diego and the Central Coast, so create local play, expanding to regional play, to determine the top teams in Southern California. Then to identify the best of the best merge the closed model teams into the open model teams to identify the best in Southern California. Don't waist time trying to lesson what exists now, just build something better and bolt it on.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

What fantasy world are you living in? Coaches? Coaches have no power over where their teams play…that’s with the clubs. And the clubs? A group controls access to the highest league which on the boys side is mlsn. Have access? Players flock because coaches and academies now primarily recruit out of the mlsn events. Don’t have access? We’ll talk to ayso united…oh right….they don’t exist anymore. . Pro rel? We tried that too. It didn’t work either and doesn’t give the academies what they need, which is ultimately the tail wagging the dog.

Clubs, claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the coaches. The coaches claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the parents, and the parents just ring their hands and move from club to club looking for something better. The idea that clubs, coaches and teams can control their own destiny is not a fantasy it is a reality if enough can agree on what they would like to see - if it does not already exist then it needs to emerge. What is it you believe is needed to improve the current system? What are the frustrations that generate so many comments from folks like yourself on this forum and others like it?

 

[Carlsbad7]

Clubs, claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the coaches. The coaches claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the parents, and the parents just ring their hands and move from club to club looking for something better. The idea that clubs, coaches and teams can control their own destiny is not a fantasy it is a reality if enough can agree on what they would like to see - if it does not already exist then it needs to emerge. What is it you believe is needed to improve the current system? What are the frustrations that generate so many comments from folks like yourself on this forum and others like it?

You write a lot of words but you also have no clue.

Clubs are beholden to leagues. Coaches if they want to be successful are beholden to both docs/clubs and leagues. Players are beholden to coaches docs/clubs and leagues.

Leagues sometimes are beholden to Pro or College coach/club needs.

This is the issue and something you cant undo with "good vibes". Theres too many adults in P2P that make a living off making sure players have no power and are forced to pay the troll toll if they want to be a soccer player.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Also pro/rel will never work in America because theres no single state/gov defined levels of play. If you dont like how things work in one league clubs just join a different one. Sure some will be better and some will be worse but they all have a "National Champion" every year. You cant even do it at the Pro level in America because clubs are franchises of a single entity. Nobody would invest in a club that might lose all its value in a single season. Ironically this is what drives some of the passion (aka betting) for soccer in other countries.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

You write a lot of words but you also have no clue.

Clubs are beholden to leagues. Coaches if they want to be successful are beholden to both docs/clubs and leagues. Players are beholden to coaches docs/clubs and leagues.

Leagues sometimes are beholden to Pro or College coach/club needs.

This is the issue and something you cant undo with "good vibes". Theres too many adults in P2P that make a living off making sure players have no power and are forced to pay the troll toll if they want to be a soccer player.

Thanks for your comments, based upon your profile you are a long standing contributor to the forum Which leagues to you believe the clubs are beholden to? I accept MLSN is owned and managed by MLS, but which other leagues are beholden to Pro or College coach needs? You are correct that many capable people earn a living and pay their bills working in youth soccer and with the addition of large sums from Private equity firms it adds an additional factor. But 75% plus of the US soccer market plays community soccer. 68% of all players are under the age of 10, and the majority of kids/families have left the sport before they are 13 years old. The current system does indeed produce players that go onto both college and professional play, but the sport is not thriving participation peaked in 2010, retention at all levels is poor, the cost to play has risen 49% since 2021, and too many people are dissatisfied with the current soccer ecosystem. The suggestions made are not just good vibes they are a viable way to begin to elevate what currently exists and ensure more players come into the game, stay in the game, and perhaps a few more of them may achieve their dream - just 1'5% will play in college, 0.1% will ever play a pro game. It's not about diminishing what is currently in place, it's about responding to the fact that the game is not thriving, many are frustrated or leaving, and Southern California is the perfect place to lead the way forward and build a model for the 100% not the 1.5%. What would you like to see improved?

 

[Carlsbad7]

Thanks for your comments, based upon your profile you are a long standing contributor to the forum Which leagues to you believe the clubs are beholden to? I accept MLSN is owned and managed by MLS, but which other leagues are beholden to Pro or College coach needs? You are correct that many capable people earn a living and pay their bills working in youth soccer and with the addition of large sums from Private equity firms it adds an additional factor. But 75% plus of the US soccer market plays community soccer. 68% of all players are under the age of 10, and the majority of kids/families have left the sport before they are 13 years old. The current system does indeed produce players that go onto both college and professional play, but the sport is not thriving participation peaked in 2010, retention at all levels is poor, the cost to play has risen 49% since 2021, and too many people are dissatisfied with the current soccer ecosystem. The suggestions made are not just good vibes they are a viable way to begin to elevate what currently exists and ensure more players come into the game, stay in the game, and perhaps a few more of them may achieve their dream - just 1'5% will play in college, 0.1% will ever play a pro game. It's not about diminishing what is currently in place, it's about responding to the fact that the game is not thriving, many are frustrated or leaving, and Southern California is the perfect place to lead the way forward and build a model for the 100% not the 1.5%. What would you like to see improved?

Im going to use girls ECNL as an example because Pro isnt as involved.

People (players, coaches, parents, club admins/owners, etc) all want success in what they do. Soccer is something fun that many people like. As players get older the level of play becomes more specialized. This requires higher levels of coaching, facilities, time spent, etc. When this occurs people get filtered out. To make sure theyre not on the outside people nod nod wink wink start working togerher because it guarantees their path forward. Im using the word people not players or coaches or whatever because the pressure to succeed is on everyone.

This is why you end up with situations like ECNL where the top clubs will only play each other. Partially its to guarantee a certain level of play but its also to guarantee everyone has a job and the p2p money keeps funneling in.

General FYI I could have switched ECNL woth GA or NPL or SOCAL or whatever. the effect is the same. However the higher the level of competition the more pronounced it becomes.

 

[The Soccer Dr]

Im going to use girls ECNL as an example because Pro isnt as involved.

People (players, coaches, parents, club admins/owners, etc) all want success in what they do. Soccer is something fun that many people like. As players get older the level of play becomes more specialized. This requires higher levels of coaching, facilities, time spent, etc. When this occurs people get filtered out. To make sure theyre not on the outside people nod nod wink wink start working togerher because it guarantees their path forward. Im using the word people not players or coaches or whatever because the pressure to succeed is on everyone.

This is why you end up with situations like ECNL where the top clubs will only play each other. Partially its to guarantee a certain level of play but its also to guarantee everyone has a job and the p2p money keeps funneling in.

General FYI I could have switched ECNL woth GA or NPL or SOCAL or whatever. the effect is the same. However the higher the level of competition the more pronounced it becomes.

ECNL - Christian Lavers - has built a very good ecosystem that has earned a respected place in the soccer ecosystem but it does not serve the needs of the whole soccer community it serves the elite 5%. The problem is that it now wants to grow financially which means ECRL etc etc. ECNL is finite in that the Clubs/Club Dir currently IN the system have the veto on who gets in. When you have what others want you are not going to let others in. To allow more clubs, coaches and teams to earn the opportunity to play against higher levels of competition you have t create an open system and bolt it onto what currently exists. If you create an ecosystem that has as many layers as the market dictates - in Southern California San Diego to Central Coast that is likely a larger number. Create local play, into regional play it saves time money and travel costs. Access is open to all, you place is earned on the field, politics are minimal (perhaps eliminated) and coaches get to do what they love coach, players are rewarded for hard work, and nobody but performance on the field sets the ceiling. The Player I.D system will thrive with the support of the USSF, the market has to take ownership or what comes next to overcome the current frustrations. What would you like to see - it starts an important conversation.

 

[Carlsbad7]

To make soccer something players want to do as they get older even if theyre not on a super team you need to figure out what appeals to them.

Maybe the prize for winning a tournamant should be a vacation package to Hawaii or Ski Trip for the whole team at every level. Why does all the revenue need to go in some adults pocket?

Kids also like to play in high school soccer. Groups like US Soccer should be supporting this with a presense at big games.

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. The idea is to keep playing fun and worthwhile as players get older.

 

[Carlsbad7]

To make soccer something players want to do as they get older even if theyre not on a super team you need to figure out what appeals to them.

Maybe the prize for winning a tournamant should be a vacation package to Hawaii or Ski Trip for the whole team at every level. Why does all the revenue need to go in some adults pocket?

Kids also like to play in high school soccer. Groups like US Soccer should be supporting this with a presense at big games.

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. The idea is to keep playing fun and worthwhile as players get older.

Heres some more...

Why does US Soccer only look at a limited number of players who are typically recommended by coaches? Coaches use this as a tool to recruit talent. How hard is it to evaluate all players that want to be considered? Too much work? Too hard to actually look at players?

Support things like Futsal or arena soccer. This is a huge opportunity that US Soccer simply ignores.

What about funding teams that need jerseys and putting US Soccers name on them?

Theres so many ways things could change but they wont because groups want to say that theyre enabling change. But in reality theyre not and they only want more of the same.

 

[Grace T.]

Clubs, claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the coaches. The coaches claim they have no power - they answer to the needs of the parents, and the parents just wring their hands and move from club to club looking for something better. The idea that clubs, coaches and teams can control their own destiny is not a fantasy it is a reality if enough can agree on what they would like to see - if it does not already exist then it needs to emerge. What is it you believe is needed to improve the current system? What are the frustrations that generate so many comments from folks like yourself on this forum and others like it?

As has been pointed out to you the winners (those buying and making the Ferraris and bmws) have no incentive to downgrade so your Cadillacs let alone chevys can get a market. It requires either outside intervention to smash the system or new innovation. Not “back to the 50s” like those car people moaned in the 80s. That’s dead. It died for reasons. It’s not coming back.

 

[Grace T.]

ECNL - Christian Lavers - has built a very good ecosystem that has earned a respected place in the soccer ecosystem but it does not serve the needs of the whole soccer community it serves the elite 5%. The problem is that it now wants to grow financially which means ECRL etc etc. ECNL is finite in that the Clubs/Club Dir currently IN the system have the veto on who gets in. When you have what others want you are not going to let others in. To allow more clubs, coaches and teams to earn the opportunity to play against higher levels of competition you have t create an open system and bolt it onto what currently exists. If you create an ecosystem that has as many layers as the market dictates - in Southern California San Diego to Central Coast that is likely a larger number. Create local play, into regional play it saves time money and travel costs. Access is open to all, you place is earned on the field, politics are minimal (perhaps eliminated) and coaches get to do what they love coach, players are rewarded for hard work, and nobody but performance on the field sets the ceiling. The Player I.D system will thrive with the support of the USSF, the market has to take ownership or what comes next to overcome the current frustrations. What would you like to see - it starts an important conversation.

This is exactly the example. Why would anyone on the inside (the Ferraris and BMWs) have any incentive to put themselves at risk by doing this? Why would the players on those teams that already have the inside track on recruitment? Why would the business (which on the boys side is just expanding mls to new levels and selling it as part of the same)? The ones complaining are those on the outside and they have no leverage to change anything. Not power prestige or money. And the mls academies get their fodder which is who the system serves. It’s all about the pros. After age 10 they can care less about the grass roots.