Reality Check

[Striker17]

The reality is your player makes their own destiny.

No amount of penciling in your player for this or that will change anything, they have to find their own way.

Nothing beats hard work; the call ups list for the YNT camp came out and the director announced one of the players from my sons team was called up. That player wasn't even playing in the top flight last year. but continued to train well, dedicated himself to improving, and his passion and skill are paying off.

Youth soccer has so many catch terms (Elite, Academy, Pre-this or that) marketing fluff, or parents thinking they need private trainers to give the appearance that things are different but it all comes down to what a player does in the dirt, grass, or turf. They will find their level and that changes over time.

Let the kids become who they will; pushing, joysticking, or trying to position them really doesn't help them in the long run.

Likewise if the player had the passion to go over and beyond what other parents deem acceptable that is a personal family choice. It's also
I am old friends with a family who since seven believes their son will play professionally. They have dealt with the usual doubters but they remained steadfast. The kid loves and breathes soccer. It's been a pleasure to watch and they in fact are moving to Europe for him to be in an academy for a large club. Never thought I would see it honestly. Talk about walking the walk!!
My point is - in my immediate area there are boys putting in well over 30 hours a week. So scoff all you want but they are here and they are working. It's the family choice.
I don't know why it's everyone's immediate reaction to tear down another person. It's very odd.

He's including the 30 hours lurking on this forum as "soccer related activities" to get the 40 hours a week.

Funny With a screen name like big kick you truly have a command of the game. Maybe clear the ball is a better moniker?

 

[bigkick]

Likewise if the player had the passion to go over and beyond what other parents deem acceptable that is a personal family choice. It's also
I am old friends with a family who since seven believes their son will play professionally. They have dealt with the usual doubters but they remained steadfast. The kid loves and breathes soccer. It's been a pleasure to watch and they in fact are moving to Europe for him to be in an academy for a large club. Never thought I would see it honestly. Talk about walking the walk!!
My point is - in my immediate area there are boys putting in well over 30 hours a week. So scoff all you want but they are here and they are working. It's the family choice.
I don't know why it's everyone's immediate reaction to tear down another person. It's very odd.


Funny With a screen name like big kick you truly have a command of the game. Maybe clear the ball is a better moniker?

It's actually a mockery of the crappy soccer I witness every weekend. Most of these so called "soccer" teams are nothing but kickball teams. And too often all I hear is "bigkick" (yes at club games) so it stuck.

 

[Sizzle10]

timbuck, I had not read this thread until today and find it very insightful and interesting. Thanks for the contribution! Great feedback from most members responding which help us (specially those of us that are new to the sport) put the sport, related lifestyle or concerns, and the ups and downs in perspective.

 

[timbuck]

I've gone back and forth on whether I should post this or not. What the heck, here goes. I'm sure there will be some who have issues with this.
I hope this doesn't sounds like I'm trying to make a case for Extra vs Club. But I wanted to add a few of my views. I know that most club kids are putting in a lot more time than most Extra kids. (Private training, speed clinics, futsal, lots of tournaments, etc). And above U12, the Extra program is pretty weak compared to club. And I do think that club players are more intense due to playing time pressure. I've debated with people on whether youth players should fight for playing time vs a guaranteed minimum amount. I think it really depends on the individual player.
My gu12 team will likely make a move out of the Extra program after this season.
Like any activity, a lot of it depends on the coach. A great coach at a crappy club is good. A crappy coach at a great club is bad. A great coach at a great club is obviously the ideal situation. Not saying I'm a great or a crappy coach. But I am pretty dedicated.
I coach a Gu12 and Gu10 Extra team. We have some great players and some amazing families. Lots of best friends up and down each roster. I'm not aware of too much "drama" behind the scenes. I'm sure there is some. But not like I hear from some of our friends who are at various clubs.
I put a ton of time into these girls/families. I don't want anyone to ever leave because they thought that going to a club team would give their kid more training opportunities. I check the pulse of families throughout the year and will dial up or dial down based on their feedback. I don't make a dime off of anything that we do. Some examples:
1. We took a 6 week break from formal practice and games this summer. But we entered a futsal league and played once a week. Nothing mandatory. I wasn't using it to make players fight for playing time. If a kid had something going on, there was no pressure to attend. We had pretty good attendance all summer. I think many of the kids would rather play futsal year round. Most of our games were against boys club teams (It was a coed leauge, but was mostly boys). The gu10 team brought in a few boys to help out once in a while. They struggled a bit during the Fall and Spring season and I didn't want them getting crushed. The gu12 team is fine playing boys and has won more than they've lost, so they can handle getting beat.
2. This spring, the u12 team didn't play in a gaming circuit. We wanted parents to not have to worry about a game every single weekend. But we played 3 friendly games per month against club teams. Some times 2 in a day or 2 in weekend. And then a free weekend. We are a mix of 04/05 players. We played 7 games against 05 teams (flight 2) and 7 games against 04 teams (flight 2). Most of these games were at our home field, with about a 2 minute drive time. And none of them were at 8 am. No cost for fields and only an occasional referee fee.
The Gu12 teams played 65 games from last Fall to this Fall. (Season, tournaments, friendlies. Not including futsal or pickup games).
3. We have a week long team camp in August. 9am-noon for 5 days. This was at no additional cost to our players and is run by an outside trainer (I was there most of the time. I do have a full time job, so that gets in the way once in a while). After the soccer was over, the team did a fun activity each day (team lunch, pool party, beach party, etc).
4. The younger team has struggled a bit, so we didn't play any club tournaments. A few of them guest played with other teams. They seem to have turned a bit of a corner lately and are playing pretty good. The older team has done Vegas Cup for the past 3 years. And usually did 3 tournaments per summer. We've gotten crushed a few times and have won a few games. We only did 1 tournament this summer, for a variety of reasons.
5. I mentioned in a prior post that I set up a pick up soccer game for all girls in this age group (club, extra, rec, etc) to come and play. We had about 30 kids show up from 6 different teams. No cost to anybody. Just play for fun. We will do it again at the end of October, but will make it a food drive.
6. I've rented an arena soccer facility on Sundays for the past few weeks. Attendance is optional and we fill in with club friends to get us enough players. Somewhat pick-up style. Let them play for 10 minutes, give a little advice, get some water and play for 10 more minutes. The point of this is for the girls to be able to try new things without fear. No pressure, no scores, no standings.
7. 6 of my 14 players are AYSO referees this season.
8. Majority of them run a few 5k races together per year. They finish in the top 10% of their age group. We haven't done any special speed/agility sessions.
9. We have keeper training once week for our 3 goalkeepers. There is no additional cost to the players. It is run by a great keeper coach (not me).
10. I've also tried to push them to all try new sports. A few played basketball this summer. A few more will try it this winter. A bunch are about to try volleyball. We have a softball player, swimmer and tennis player too.
11. Some have done some private soccer coaching. I encourage it. I also give "homework" for them to work on ball skills at home.
12. The team will volunteer at a soccer tournament for children with disabilities in October. They'll ref, provide support, pick up trash, hand out medals.
13. We have a physical therapist coming to talk to the parents and players next week about injury prevention and recovery.
14. We practice 2x per week for 90 minutes. I'll do an occasional extra session once in a while as my work and family commitments allow.
15. We kept our roster at 14 players this season to make sure everyone gets lots of playing time. Fingers crossed for no injuries (we've had a few minor one's the last few weeks).
16. In addition to me, we have a trainer for 1 of our practice sessions each week. The gu10 team has an assistant coach. The gu12 team is just me this year.
17. We have "cool" uniforms too. Adidas home and away game jerseys. A special tournament jersey. Adidas game shorts. Adidas socks. Two practice jerseys. 1 Adidas ball per player. These are included in our fees. Backpacks and warm ups are separate for the kids that want them.
18. What's it cost? Fall season registration is $135 per player. There's an additional Extra Program fee of $165 (covers camp, trainer, gk training, ball, upgraded uniforms). We usually collect an additional $100-$200 per player for team tournaments, futsal, etc.
Sorry for the blabbering. I'm a pretty big fan of the Extra program for U9-U12 aged kids. But it has issues like anything else.

Also - I hear about coaches having game conflicts. In the past 2 seasons, there's only been 2 times where I haven't been able to attend games for both teams. And if something comes up where I can't be at a practice, I always find someone to fill in or we move something around.

 

[ESPNANALYST]

I've gone back and forth on whether I should post this or not. What the heck, here goes. I'm sure there will be some who have issues with this.
I hope this doesn't sounds like I'm trying to make a case for Extra vs Club. But I wanted to add a few of my views. I know that most club kids are putting in a lot more time than most Extra kids. (Private training, speed clinics, futsal, lots of tournaments, etc). And above U12, the Extra program is pretty weak compared to club. And I do think that club players are more intense due to playing time pressure. I've debated with people on whether youth players should fight for playing time vs a guaranteed minimum amount. I think it really depends on the individual player.
My gu12 team will likely make a move out of the Extra program after this season.
Like any activity, a lot of it depends on the coach. A great coach at a crappy club is good. A crappy coach at a great club is bad. A great coach at a great club is obviously the ideal situation. Not saying I'm a great or a crappy coach. But I am pretty dedicated.
I coach a Gu12 and Gu10 Extra team. We have some great players and some amazing families. Lots of best friends up and down each roster. I'm not aware of too much "drama" behind the scenes. I'm sure there is some. But not like I hear from some of our friends who are at various clubs.
I put a ton of time into these girls/families. I don't want anyone to ever leave because they thought that going to a club team would give their kid more training opportunities. I check the pulse of families throughout the year and will dial up or dial down based on their feedback. I don't make a dime off of anything that we do. Some examples:
1. We took a 6 week break from formal practice and games this summer. But we entered a futsal league and played once a week. Nothing mandatory. I wasn't using it to make players fight for playing time. If a kid had something going on, there was no pressure to attend. We had pretty good attendance all summer. I think many of the kids would rather play futsal year round. Most of our games were against boys club teams (It was a coed leauge, but was mostly boys). The gu10 team brought in a few boys to help out once in a while. They struggled a bit during the Fall and Spring season and I didn't want them getting crushed. The gu12 team is fine playing boys and has won more than they've lost, so they can handle getting beat.
2. This spring, the u12 team didn't play in a gaming circuit. We wanted parents to not have to worry about a game every single weekend. But we played 3 friendly games per month against club teams. Some times 2 in a day or 2 in weekend. And then a free weekend. We are a mix of 04/05 players. We played 7 games against 05 teams (flight 2) and 7 games against 04 teams (flight 2). Most of these games were at our home field, with about a 2 minute drive time. And none of them were at 8 am. No cost for fields and only an occasional referee fee.
The Gu12 teams played 65 games from last Fall to this Fall. (Season, tournaments, friendlies. Not including futsal or pickup games).
3. We have a week long team camp in August. 9am-noon for 5 days. This was at no additional cost to our players and is run by an outside trainer (I was there most of the time. I do have a full time job, so that gets in the way once in a while). After the soccer was over, the team did a fun activity each day (team lunch, pool party, beach party, etc).
4. The younger team has struggled a bit, so we didn't play any club tournaments. A few of them guest played with other teams. They seem to have turned a bit of a corner lately and are playing pretty good. The older team has done Vegas Cup for the past 3 years. And usually did 3 tournaments per summer. We've gotten crushed a few times and have won a few games. We only did 1 tournament this summer, for a variety of reasons.
5. I mentioned in a prior post that I set up a pick up soccer game for all girls in this age group (club, extra, rec, etc) to come and play. We had about 30 kids show up from 6 different teams. No cost to anybody. Just play for fun. We will do it again at the end of October, but will make it a food drive.
6. I've rented an arena soccer facility on Sundays for the past few weeks. Attendance is optional and we fill in with club friends to get us enough players. Somewhat pick-up style. Let them play for 10 minutes, give a little advice, get some water and play for 10 more minutes. The point of this is for the girls to be able to try new things without fear. No pressure, no scores, no standings.
7. 6 of my 14 players are AYSO referees this season.
8. Majority of them run a few 5k races together per year. They finish in the top 10% of their age group. We haven't done any special speed/agility sessions.
9. We have keeper training once week for our 3 goalkeepers. There is no additional cost to the players. It is run by a great keeper coach (not me).
10. I've also tried to push them to all try new sports. A few played basketball this summer. A few more will try it this winter. A bunch are about to try volleyball. We have a softball player, swimmer and tennis player too.
11. Some have done some private soccer coaching. I encourage it. I also give "homework" for them to work on ball skills at home.
12. The team will volunteer at a soccer tournament for children with disabilities in October. They'll ref, provide support, pick up trash, hand out medals.
13. We have a physical therapist coming to talk to the parents and players next week about injury prevention and recovery.
14. We practice 2x per week for 90 minutes. I'll do an occasional extra session once in a while as my work and family commitments allow.
15. We kept our roster at 14 players this season to make sure everyone gets lots of playing time. Fingers crossed for no injuries (we've had a few minor one's the last few weeks).
16. In addition to me, we have a trainer for 1 of our practice sessions each week. The gu10 team has an assistant coach. The gu12 team is just me this year.
17. We have "cool" uniforms too. Adidas home and away game jerseys. A special tournament jersey. Adidas game shorts. Adidas socks. Two practice jerseys. 1 Adidas ball per player. These are included in our fees. Backpacks and warm ups are separate for the kids that want them.
18. What's it cost? Fall season registration is $135 per player. There's an additional Extra Program fee of $165 (covers camp, trainer, gk training, ball, upgraded uniforms). We usually collect an additional $100-$200 per player for team tournaments, futsal, etc.
Sorry for the blabbering. I'm a pretty big fan of the Extra program for U9-U12 aged kids. But it has issues like anything else.

Also - I hear about coaches having game conflicts. In the past 2 seasons, there's only been 2 times where I haven't been able to attend games for both teams. And if something comes up where I can't be at a practice, I always find someone to fill in or we move something around.

Sir I just want to say thanks. Sounds like you are a great coach and an even better Man. Those are some pretty lucky players and families. Impressive

 

[mirage]

I've gone back and forth on whether I should post this or not. What the heck, here goes. I'm sure there will be some who have issues with this.....

Wow, what a laundry list of stuff. Have no issue with it but its worth pointing out couple of things.

As a former board member for a rec league, there is an inherent cost advantage of running a competitive team under the umbrella of rec league, like AYSO.

1) Cities will provide the field at significantly lower costs and with priority of use to the rec leagues
2) Costs of competitive teams are spread over the entire rec league organization (exception being rec leagues that run their own club arm, then often the club arm has to stand on its own - e.g., Laguna United under LNYSA)

So when you mention what a value it is, and it is, its really not apples-to-apples comparison. But it is dead-ended as no rec leagues have DA or ECNL path upward. So as long as its viewed as U12 and under, as you've implied, its just taking advantage of its structure.

The other is having the same parent coach for multiple years. This is not directed at you timbuck; rather, a general statement about how rec league teams is coached in general and in every sports.

There is a optimal duration for effectiveness of any coach, no matter how great he/she is. Typically after couple of years, the players have learned just about everything they can from that particular trainer. While the execution level varies from player to player, the basic concepts and approach has run its course. It is most important during the development years to match the right kind of coach for right amount of time. A change in a coach brings different perspective, approach and new techniques (both skills and tactics) than the coach before. If done correctly, by the time a player reaches U14, should have had 2~4 different coaches, depending on when soccer was taken up.

The other aspect of this point is the parent coach. There are lots of jokes and horror stories about playing in a team where the coach is one of the dads/moms. Need not give examples as you all know them but I do make a point to never join a team, if the coach has a child or nephew/nice on the team. Many clubs do not allow coach-child on the same team to avoid conflict of interest (or at least the appearance of it).

Again, I'm sure your very dedicated and fair coach to all of your players timbuck, so please don't read into this post more than what it is.

 

[younothat]

Dang Timbuck...superman coach of the year. Well done sir, you're a good example of somebody giving back and making a positive difference in their community

 

[bababooey]

TB: I knew you were dedicated to soccer, but this is downright amazing. When I coached my two dd's in rec years ago, I thought I was giving a lot of my free time to the cause. Reading what you are doing makes my prior commitment look like a vacation.

I trust the players and parents appreciate what you are doing for them and the community.

Keep up the GREAT WORK!

 

[socalkdg]

My daughter is on a club team that just came from U10 Extra. Took players from our team, younger players from U11 Extra, and a few spring select players, all from same region. It was all based on the coach. She had chances to move to Legends, but we went with the girls she plays with and the coach she plays with. He provided once a week training with a trainer, worked with many of the England players that come out and help to get settled here and work with the kids, teaches playing from the back, using support, playing to the keeper, etc. We have a solid, team, could be better with a couple good recruits, but that wasn't the direction the coach wanted to go. Went with Loyalty. Another team in our league was the Jurupa Extra team that went on to become Riverside FC. They were already playing club last year and winning a few tourneys. They did some recruiting and have a very strong club, which I don't see us catching this year. Our coach feels Extra is great, but the move to club still needs to be made around U12 - U13. Tim, you might even know our coach as he still runs the Extra program. Tim, you sound like a great coach and keep up the good work. If my kid was in your program she would have stayed with you.

 

[MakeAPlay]

I've gone back and forth on whether I should post this or not. What the heck, here goes. I'm sure there will be some who have issues with this.
I hope this doesn't sounds like I'm trying to make a case for Extra vs Club. But I wanted to add a few of my views. I know that most club kids are putting in a lot more time than most Extra kids. (Private training, speed clinics, futsal, lots of tournaments, etc). And above U12, the Extra program is pretty weak compared to club. And I do think that club players are more intense due to playing time pressure. I've debated with people on whether youth players should fight for playing time vs a guaranteed minimum amount. I think it really depends on the individual player.
My gu12 team will likely make a move out of the Extra program after this season.
Like any activity, a lot of it depends on the coach. A great coach at a crappy club is good. A crappy coach at a great club is bad. A great coach at a great club is obviously the ideal situation. Not saying I'm a great or a crappy coach. But I am pretty dedicated.
I coach a Gu12 and Gu10 Extra team. We have some great players and some amazing families. Lots of best friends up and down each roster. I'm not aware of too much "drama" behind the scenes. I'm sure there is some. But not like I hear from some of our friends who are at various clubs.
I put a ton of time into these girls/families. I don't want anyone to ever leave because they thought that going to a club team would give their kid more training opportunities. I check the pulse of families throughout the year and will dial up or dial down based on their feedback. I don't make a dime off of anything that we do. Some examples:
1. We took a 6 week break from formal practice and games this summer. But we entered a futsal league and played once a week. Nothing mandatory. I wasn't using it to make players fight for playing time. If a kid had something going on, there was no pressure to attend. We had pretty good attendance all summer. I think many of the kids would rather play futsal year round. Most of our games were against boys club teams (It was a coed leauge, but was mostly boys). The gu10 team brought in a few boys to help out once in a while. They struggled a bit during the Fall and Spring season and I didn't want them getting crushed. The gu12 team is fine playing boys and has won more than they've lost, so they can handle getting beat.
2. This spring, the u12 team didn't play in a gaming circuit. We wanted parents to not have to worry about a game every single weekend. But we played 3 friendly games per month against club teams. Some times 2 in a day or 2 in weekend. And then a free weekend. We are a mix of 04/05 players. We played 7 games against 05 teams (flight 2) and 7 games against 04 teams (flight 2). Most of these games were at our home field, with about a 2 minute drive time. And none of them were at 8 am. No cost for fields and only an occasional referee fee.
The Gu12 teams played 65 games from last Fall to this Fall. (Season, tournaments, friendlies. Not including futsal or pickup games).
3. We have a week long team camp in August. 9am-noon for 5 days. This was at no additional cost to our players and is run by an outside trainer (I was there most of the time. I do have a full time job, so that gets in the way once in a while). After the soccer was over, the team did a fun activity each day (team lunch, pool party, beach party, etc).
4. The younger team has struggled a bit, so we didn't play any club tournaments. A few of them guest played with other teams. They seem to have turned a bit of a corner lately and are playing pretty good. The older team has done Vegas Cup for the past 3 years. And usually did 3 tournaments per summer. We've gotten crushed a few times and have won a few games. We only did 1 tournament this summer, for a variety of reasons.
5. I mentioned in a prior post that I set up a pick up soccer game for all girls in this age group (club, extra, rec, etc) to come and play. We had about 30 kids show up from 6 different teams. No cost to anybody. Just play for fun. We will do it again at the end of October, but will make it a food drive.
6. I've rented an arena soccer facility on Sundays for the past few weeks. Attendance is optional and we fill in with club friends to get us enough players. Somewhat pick-up style. Let them play for 10 minutes, give a little advice, get some water and play for 10 more minutes. The point of this is for the girls to be able to try new things without fear. No pressure, no scores, no standings.
7. 6 of my 14 players are AYSO referees this season.
8. Majority of them run a few 5k races together per year. They finish in the top 10% of their age group. We haven't done any special speed/agility sessions.
9. We have keeper training once week for our 3 goalkeepers. There is no additional cost to the players. It is run by a great keeper coach (not me).
10. I've also tried to push them to all try new sports. A few played basketball this summer. A few more will try it this winter. A bunch are about to try volleyball. We have a softball player, swimmer and tennis player too.
11. Some have done some private soccer coaching. I encourage it. I also give "homework" for them to work on ball skills at home.
12. The team will volunteer at a soccer tournament for children with disabilities in October. They'll ref, provide support, pick up trash, hand out medals.
13. We have a physical therapist coming to talk to the parents and players next week about injury prevention and recovery.
14. We practice 2x per week for 90 minutes. I'll do an occasional extra session once in a while as my work and family commitments allow.
15. We kept our roster at 14 players this season to make sure everyone gets lots of playing time. Fingers crossed for no injuries (we've had a few minor one's the last few weeks).
16. In addition to me, we have a trainer for 1 of our practice sessions each week. The gu10 team has an assistant coach. The gu12 team is just me this year.
17. We have "cool" uniforms too. Adidas home and away game jerseys. A special tournament jersey. Adidas game shorts. Adidas socks. Two practice jerseys. 1 Adidas ball per player. These are included in our fees. Backpacks and warm ups are separate for the kids that want them.
18. What's it cost? Fall season registration is $135 per player. There's an additional Extra Program fee of $165 (covers camp, trainer, gk training, ball, upgraded uniforms). We usually collect an additional $100-$200 per player for team tournaments, futsal, etc.
Sorry for the blabbering. I'm a pretty big fan of the Extra program for U9-U12 aged kids. But it has issues like anything else.

Also - I hear about coaches having game conflicts. In the past 2 seasons, there's only been 2 times where I haven't been able to attend games for both teams. And if something comes up where I can't be at a practice, I always find someone to fill in or we move something around.

Great stuff coach!! You are an awesome human being!!

 

[Sped]

Son moved to new club: 2 hrs practice, 1 hr training, 2 hrs practice, 90 min skills, 90 min games x 2, warmups ... that's 11 hours ... add maybe a couple more for commuting time. So 13 hours a week. Who are these kids doing 30-40 hours each week?

None. Seriously, anyone saying otherwise is full of sh(t.

 

[timbuck]

Wow, what a laundry list of stuff. Have no issue with it but its worth pointing out couple of things.

As a former board member for a rec league, there is an inherent cost advantage of running a competitive team under the umbrella of rec league, like AYSO.

1) Cities will provide the field at significantly lower costs and with priority of use to the rec leagues
2) Costs of competitive teams are spread over the entire rec league organization (exception being rec leagues that run their own club arm, then often the club arm has to stand on its own - e.g., Laguna United under LNYSA)

So when you mention what a value it is, and it is, its really not apples-to-apples comparison. But it is dead-ended as no rec leagues have DA or ECNL path upward. So as long as its viewed as U12 and under, as you've implied, its just taking advantage of its structure.

The other is having the same parent coach for multiple years. This is not directed at you timbuck; rather, a general statement about how rec league teams is coached in general and in every sports.

There is a optimal duration for effectiveness of any coach, no matter how great he/she is. Typically after couple of years, the players have learned just about everything they can from that particular trainer. While the execution level varies from player to player, the basic concepts and approach has run its course. It is most important during the development years to match the right kind of coach for right amount of time. A change in a coach brings different perspective, approach and new techniques (both skills and tactics) than the coach before. If done correctly, by the time a player reaches U14, should have had 2~4 different coaches, depending on when soccer was taken up.

The other aspect of this point is the parent coach. There are lots of jokes and horror stories about playing in a team where the coach is one of the dads/moms. Need not give examples as you all know them but I do make a point to never join a team, if the coach has a child or nephew/nice on the team. Many clubs do not allow coach-child on the same team to avoid conflict of interest (or at least the appearance of it).

Again, I'm sure your very dedicated and fair coach to all of your players timbuck, so please don't read into this post more than what it is.

Absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. But keep in mind my original post - For the kids that aren't DA/ENCL players. My goal is to provide players with a great soccer experience that is also competitive.

Also - because I don't get paid, I don't need to treat this like a job. I can make some changes that may cause us to lose a game here or there. It's not quite the same as changing to a new coach every few years, but I've certainly evolved in the way that I approach things.
I'll also point out that it can be a little bit political - Here's my example - I've taken a stand to not cut a player.

On the costs - You also need to remember that the Extra program still uses volunteer referees. So the $60 (or whatever the cost is) per game goes away. AYSO refs tend to call too many fouls. When we adjust back from a summer tournament season into the Fall Extra program, it takes us a few games to not be quite as physical as we were used to.

As far as being a dad coach - I get it. I'm sure some parents have accused me of daddy ball at one point or another. But - the beauty of the AYSO Extra program is that EVERYONE plays. I am mandated to play every player at least 1/2 of a game on the field. For the most part, kids are playing 3/4 of a game. And since we still take a sub break about halfway through a half of soccer, it's easy to manage this. Up until this year, I've really moved girls around to a lot of different positions (maybe too much). My younger kid likes to play in goal. Her team has 4 different keepers. I've never heard a parent complain that they wish their own kid could play in goal more often. When not in goal, she usually plays outside mid or on defense (we play 7v7 and usually play a 2-3-1). The older team - I know parents would complain at U9/U10 about me moving players around too much. "Why isn't X playing forward. We need to score." "How come Z is in goal? That's not "her" position." My reasoning for moving them around so much is that if they left my team, they would be able to play anywhere their new coach needed them. I don't need to pad my roster to cover any costs. If you are on the team, you will play as much as everyone else.

Wow, what a laundry list of stuff. Have no issue with it but its worth pointing out couple of things.

As a former board member for a rec league, there is an inherent cost advantage of running a competitive team under the umbrella of rec league, like AYSO.

1) Cities will provide the field at significantly lower costs and with priority of use to the rec leagues
2) Costs of competitive teams are spread over the entire rec league organization (exception being rec leagues that run their own club arm, then often the club arm has to stand on its own - e.g., Laguna United under LNYSA)

So when you mention what a value it is, and it is, its really not apples-to-apples comparison. But it is dead-ended as no rec leagues have DA or ECNL path upward. So as long as its viewed as U12 and under, as you've implied, its just taking advantage of its structure.

The other is having the same parent coach for multiple years. This is not directed at you timbuck; rather, a general statement about how rec league teams is coached in general and in every sports.

There is a optimal duration for effectiveness of any coach, no matter how great he/she is. Typically after couple of years, the players have learned just about everything they can from that particular trainer. While the execution level varies from player to player, the basic concepts and approach has run its course. It is most important during the development years to match the right kind of coach for right amount of time. A change in a coach brings different perspective, approach and new techniques (both skills and tactics) than the coach before. If done correctly, by the time a player reaches U14, should have had 2~4 different coaches, depending on when soccer was taken up.

The other aspect of this point is the parent coach. There are lots of jokes and horror stories about playing in a team where the coach is one of the dads/moms. Need not give examples as you all know them but I do make a point to never join a team, if the coach has a child or nephew/nice on the team. Many clubs do not allow coach-child on the same team to avoid conflict of interest (or at least the appearance of it).

Again, I'm sure your very dedicated and fair coach to all of your players timbuck, so please don't read into this post more than what it is.

I haven't done the math, but the cost difference comes down to the following:
1. AYSO refs are volunteers. That's about $60 per game, per team.
2. Coach Salary- I think it's between $8k-$14k per team.
3. Other admin salary (DOC), etc) and costs.
4. Fields- I think this is a smaller portion of the cost difference than 1-3 above.

And - with regard to DA/ECNL- you are spot on.

 

[timbuck]

Hit "post" too soon
On the "it gets political"- meant to say -
"I've never cut a player. And we've had some girs tryout that might be "better" than a current player. But unless a spot opens up, I don't drop someone for a better player. We've had a few girls leave for a variety of reasons. But we usually fill a spot pretty quick.

 

[jrcaesar]

"I've never cut a player. And we've had some girs tryout that might be "better" than a current player. But unless a spot opens up, I don't drop someone for a better player. We've had a few girls leave for a variety of reasons. But we usually fill a spot pretty quick.

Since EXTRA teams are supposed to form anew every season, how do you handle fair and open evaluations of all interested players in your region?

 

[jrcaesar]

(Not to put you on the spot. Most regions seem to keep teams fully together year over year.)

 

[timbuck]

Our region has had 2 teams up until this Fall.
And since we've progressed from 7v7 to 9v9 to 11v11, it's usually worked out.
We do have independent evaluators every January during our tryout time.
If a new player scored way above a current player, the coach would have to really justify it.
My theory has been- if a girl that isn't currently on the team, she's needs to be as good as my best players to justify cutting someone. If she's as good as my bottom or a little better, then I wouldn't make a change.
Most regions only have 1 team per age group. I assume it's a bit more difficult for them

 

[socalkdg]

There are some politics involved, and the best girls aren't always on the Extra team as some are missed. This past year most of the U10 Extra team all went to club as a group, leaving a number of openings. One team was formed for fall. The club is made up of two girls from previous Extra team, 4 girls each from the two spring select teams that played in the spring for a total of 8 more, and 4 more from a 80 girl tryout. Extra and core in our region gives 3 quarters of play to every girl, thus 14 on the team, 11 playing. During this tryout there were at least 3 club coaches from around the area trying to grab girls as well. I think because the girls were already playing stiffer competition, with better coaching, their skills have improved more than they would have just playing on a regular core AYSO team, thus existing players have an advantage.

Because my daughter has been playing keeper all year, but isn't ready to give up playing forward, I'm coaching a U12 AYSO team that she plays on so she can get some game experience on the field. I ended up with one girl that is probably better than 3-4 of the girls on the Extra team, she should have been on the team, but I heard she just missed the cut. I've made it work out as her and my daughter can practice vs each other and push each other. I've had a coule scrimmages vs two Extra teams and we have held our own. I've had her come to some of our club practices as well(our coach likes to run 4 vs 4 drills and it always tough to get 16, so always room to include some others), and will make sure she is on the upcoming spring select team, which should lead to her playing on the U13 Extra team next year, or at least give her spring board to playing club, either on my daughters team next year, or another club in the area.

Money, less travel, other siblings playing at the same park are some of the reasons these girls don't go club.

 

[Sizzle10]

Tim, excellent feedback. You truly represent the mission of AYSO and exemplify true coaching and sportsmanship that seems to be lacking in Club circuit. Your story is inspiring. I understand that the Club circuit is different than AYSO in much way but coaching is coaching and can be transformational for our youth when done with passion, commitment and truly focus on development. Club soccer could use more coaches like you. Good luck.

I've gone back and forth on whether I should post this or not. What the heck, here goes. I'm sure there will be some who have issues with this.
I hope this doesn't sounds like I'm trying to make a case for Extra vs Club. But I wanted to add a few of my views. I know that most club kids are putting in a lot more time than most Extra kids. (Private training, speed clinics, futsal, lots of tournaments, etc). And above U12, the Extra program is pretty weak compared to club. And I do think that club players are more intense due to playing time pressure. I've debated with people on whether youth players should fight for playing time vs a guaranteed minimum amount. I think it really depends on the individual player.
My gu12 team will likely make a move out of the Extra program after this season.
Like any activity, a lot of it depends on the coach. A great coach at a crappy club is good. A crappy coach at a great club is bad. A great coach at a great club is obviously the ideal situation. Not saying I'm a great or a crappy coach. But I am pretty dedicated.
I coach a Gu12 and Gu10 Extra team. We have some great players and some amazing families. Lots of best friends up and down each roster. I'm not aware of too much "drama" behind the scenes. I'm sure there is some. But not like I hear from some of our friends who are at various clubs.
I put a ton of time into these girls/families. I don't want anyone to ever leave because they thought that going to a club team would give their kid more training opportunities. I check the pulse of families throughout the year and will dial up or dial down based on their feedback. I don't make a dime off of anything that we do. Some examples:
1. We took a 6 week break from formal practice and games this summer. But we entered a futsal league and played once a week. Nothing mandatory. I wasn't using it to make players fight for playing time. If a kid had something going on, there was no pressure to attend. We had pretty good attendance all summer. I think many of the kids would rather play futsal year round. Most of our games were against boys club teams (It was a coed leauge, but was mostly boys). The gu10 team brought in a few boys to help out once in a while. They struggled a bit during the Fall and Spring season and I didn't want them getting crushed. The gu12 team is fine playing boys and has won more than they've lost, so they can handle getting beat.
2. This spring, the u12 team didn't play in a gaming circuit. We wanted parents to not have to worry about a game every single weekend. But we played 3 friendly games per month against club teams. Some times 2 in a day or 2 in weekend. And then a free weekend. We are a mix of 04/05 players. We played 7 games against 05 teams (flight 2) and 7 games against 04 teams (flight 2). Most of these games were at our home field, with about a 2 minute drive time. And none of them were at 8 am. No cost for fields and only an occasional referee fee.
The Gu12 teams played 65 games from last Fall to this Fall. (Season, tournaments, friendlies. Not including futsal or pickup games).
3. We have a week long team camp in August. 9am-noon for 5 days. This was at no additional cost to our players and is run by an outside trainer (I was there most of the time. I do have a full time job, so that gets in the way once in a while). After the soccer was over, the team did a fun activity each day (team lunch, pool party, beach party, etc).
4. The younger team has struggled a bit, so we didn't play any club tournaments. A few of them guest played with other teams. They seem to have turned a bit of a corner lately and are playing pretty good. The older team has done Vegas Cup for the past 3 years. And usually did 3 tournaments per summer. We've gotten crushed a few times and have won a few games. We only did 1 tournament this summer, for a variety of reasons.
5. I mentioned in a prior post that I set up a pick up soccer game for all girls in this age group (club, extra, rec, etc) to come and play. We had about 30 kids show up from 6 different teams. No cost to anybody. Just play for fun. We will do it again at the end of October, but will make it a food drive.
6. I've rented an arena soccer facility on Sundays for the past few weeks. Attendance is optional and we fill in with club friends to get us enough players. Somewhat pick-up style. Let them play for 10 minutes, give a little advice, get some water and play for 10 more minutes. The point of this is for the girls to be able to try new things without fear. No pressure, no scores, no standings.
7. 6 of my 14 players are AYSO referees this season.
8. Majority of them run a few 5k races together per year. They finish in the top 10% of their age group. We haven't done any special speed/agility sessions.
9. We have keeper training once week for our 3 goalkeepers. There is no additional cost to the players. It is run by a great keeper coach (not me).
10. I've also tried to push them to all try new sports. A few played basketball this summer. A few more will try it this winter. A bunch are about to try volleyball. We have a softball player, swimmer and tennis player too.
11. Some have done some private soccer coaching. I encourage it. I also give "homework" for them to work on ball skills at home.
12. The team will volunteer at a soccer tournament for children with disabilities in October. They'll ref, provide support, pick up trash, hand out medals.
13. We have a physical therapist coming to talk to the parents and players next week about injury prevention and recovery.
14. We practice 2x per week for 90 minutes. I'll do an occasional extra session once in a while as my work and family commitments allow.
15. We kept our roster at 14 players this season to make sure everyone gets lots of playing time. Fingers crossed for no injuries (we've had a few minor one's the last few weeks).
16. In addition to me, we have a trainer for 1 of our practice sessions each week. The gu10 team has an assistant coach. The gu12 team is just me this year.
17. We have "cool" uniforms too. Adidas home and away game jerseys. A special tournament jersey. Adidas game shorts. Adidas socks. Two practice jerseys. 1 Adidas ball per player. These are included in our fees. Backpacks and warm ups are separate for the kids that want them.
18. What's it cost? Fall season registration is $135 per player. There's an additional Extra Program fee of $165 (covers camp, trainer, gk training, ball, upgraded uniforms). We usually collect an additional $100-$200 per player for team tournaments, futsal, etc.
Sorry for the blabbering. I'm a pretty big fan of the Extra program for U9-U12 aged kids. But it has issues like anything else.

Also - I hear about coaches having game conflicts. In the past 2 seasons, there's only been 2 times where I haven't been able to attend games for both teams. And if something comes up where I can't be at a practice, I always find someone to fill in or we move something around.

Timbuck, excellent feedback. You truly represent the mission of AYSO and exemplify true coaching and sportsmanship that seems to be lacking in the Club circuit. Your story is inspiring. I understand that the Club circuit is different in many ways than AYSO but coaching is coaching and can be transformational for our youth when done with passion, commitment and truly focus on development. Club soccer could use more coaches like you. Good luck.

 

[Sizzle10]

Wow, what a laundry list of stuff. Have no issue with it but its worth pointing out couple of things.

As a former board member for a rec league, there is an inherent cost advantage of running a competitive team under the umbrella of rec league, like AYSO.

1) Cities will provide the field at significantly lower costs and with priority of use to the rec leagues
2) Costs of competitive teams are spread over the entire rec league organization (exception being rec leagues that run their own club arm, then often the club arm has to stand on its own - e.g., Laguna United under LNYSA)

So when you mention what a value it is, and it is, its really not apples-to-apples comparison. But it is dead-ended as no rec leagues have DA or ECNL path upward. So as long as its viewed as U12 and under, as you've implied, its just taking advantage of its structure.

The other is having the same parent coach for multiple years. This is not directed at you timbuck; rather, a general statement about how rec league teams is coached in general and in every sports.

There is a optimal duration for effectiveness of any coach, no matter how great he/she is. Typically after couple of years, the players have learned just about everything they can from that particular trainer. While the execution level varies from player to player, the basic concepts and approach has run its course. It is most important during the development years to match the right kind of coach for right amount of time. A change in a coach brings different perspective, approach and new techniques (both skills and tactics) than the coach before. If done correctly, by the time a player reaches U14, should have had 2~4 different coaches, depending on when soccer was taken up.

The other aspect of this point is the parent coach. There are lots of jokes and horror stories about playing in a team where the coach is one of the dads/moms. Need not give examples as you all know them but I do make a point to never join a team, if the coach has a child or nephew/nice on the team. Many clubs do not allow coach-child on the same team to avoid conflict of interest (or at least the appearance of it).

Again, I'm sure your very dedicated and fair coach to all of your players timbuck, so please don't read into this post more than what it is.

Mirage, excellent feedback. I would love to hear from other coaches on your comment regarding a coach's effectiveness after a couple of yours as it relates to coaching youth soccer. This is the first time I heard this and I thought that having the same coach (specially if it's a good coach) works better because of the consistent approach or familiarity with player and vice versa. However, your point seems very valid and I'm curious to hear responses from coaches, may be in a separate thread.

 

[xav10]

Likewise if the player had the passion to go over and beyond what other parents deem acceptable that is a personal family choice. It's also
I am old friends with a family who since seven believes their son will play professionally. They have dealt with the usual doubters but they remained steadfast. The kid loves and breathes soccer. It's been a pleasure to watch and they in fact are moving to Europe for him to be in an academy for a large club. Never thought I would see it honestly. Talk about walking the walk!!
My point is - in my immediate area there are boys putting in well over 30 hours a week. So scoff all you want but they are here and they are working. It's the family choice.
I don't know why it's everyone's immediate reaction to tear down another person. It's very odd.


Funny With a screen name like big kick you truly have a command of the game. Maybe clear the ball is a better moniker?

They must have European passports then. Lucky them!