President Joe Biden

tenacious said:
I live in Manhattan, and happened the catch the Trump motorcade drive right past my apartment on York Ave. It was when he was in town to visit his dying brother Fred. Haha it was NYC toward the end of his presidency so there weren't crowds just police lining the street. So I get talking with one of the cops, and this pretty lady as there weren't many other people around (the cop did a lot of talking trying to impress the pretty girl).

Anyway he was talking about how no one really know the route the motorcade will take. He pointed out the van with the weird thing on that and that there were multiple limo and no one knew exactly which one the President was in. Then the limos drove past and Trump was riding shotgun, up in the very first limo. His hair was the give away, and also he's a big dude.
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espola said:
Or else that was the body double put up there to fool assassins.

Or this --
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Or instead of us speculating the SS agents could just testify.
 
whatithink said:
There are a few potential issues with this, imv.
  • Biden can't compel anyone to ramp up production. The reality is that at the current price, there is no real incentive for domestic oil producers to ramp up.
  • A lot of domestic oil producers went out of business during covid (frackers mainly) as the price dropped due to the fall in demand and they were unprofitable. The US govt need to guarantee a baseline price to get companies to commit. A bit of corporate socialism.
  • There is also a refinery gap if we did produce more, and it takes years to plug that
  • China & India are happy buying oil from Russia at $80 or lower. Russia makes money at $15. Russia is the second largest oil producer (after the US), so they (CN/IN) don't need Saudi oil and for China, Russia is next door.
  • Russia is an oil (& gas) exporter, so no Saudi impact there.
Biden should build an enormous "bridge" with Venezuela - the country just south of us and the one with the largest oil reserves in the world. That would be a better longer term solution. The Saudi's are scum imo, and we should avoid if we can.
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I think you bring up a lot of great points. In my defense let me say perhaps I was feeling a bit overly confident from how well I was doing in the Insurrection thread when I posted this. But I said it, so I suppose now I've got to try and defend it...

First of all let me agree no Biden can't 'force' anyone to ramp up production. However I did hear on CNBC where Biden's Energy Secretary sat down with oil Execs last week and they told her that if the refineries didn't switch from winter to sulfur summer blends of oil it would have the same impact of bringing an extra refinery online. Now no, I'm not saying we should lower the emissions standards... but what I am saying is that if Biden stops talking about putting the oil industry out of business and really sits down to talk with them, they might have a few ideas that could be helpful to him.

As to domestic oil producers going out of business... that doesn't mean there no longer oil in the ground? To me the real question is how fast can we get it out, and at what cost. From the permitting process, drilling, transporting, to offering tax incentives there are a variety of different steps Biden can take to speed things up.

Actually I think in terms of oil the worlds top three oil production nations the list is 1_Saudi Arabia, 2_United States of American, 3_Russia.

Venezuela is a better choice than Saudi Arabia? Hmm... I'll again go back to my point that if Biden frames the higher prices as the cost of freedom people will give him some time to get the problem sorted. Now he needs to comes up with an actual long term energy plan, that lays out a roadmap of how we transition to clean energy in a way that his party will be willing to agree but also gets buy in from the fossil fuel industry. Hence my suggestion he have J Manchin head a bi-partisan committee to get looking for this compromise asap.
 
tenacious said:
But they won't. Not only that, I'd be willing to wager money we don't get an actually quote from the agent in charge describing what happened before the 2024 election.
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The agent most likely to have rebuttal testimony (Tony Ornato) is already being criticized for his penchant for self-serving dishonesty by others who worked with him. This could end up in she said - he said - she said - he said circus.

Remember espola rule #1 -- always tell the truth - that way you only have one story to remember.
 
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espola said:
The agent most likely to have rebuttal testimony (Tony Ornato) is already being criticized for his penchant for self-serving dishonesty by others who worked with him. This could end up in she said - he said - she said - he said circus.

Remember espola rule #! -- always tell the truth - that way you only have one story to remember.
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I hope he testifies.
Idk. In fairness to him, when push came to shove Tony chose not to drive Trump over to the Capital Building. I think that's worth something. So if he were to testify under oath I would likely believe him.
 
tenacious said:
But they won't. Not only that, I'd be willing to wager money we don't get an actually quote from the agent in charge describing what happened before the 2024 election.
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And if they dont its because the committee doesnt want the credibilty of their "bombshell" witness impugned. That should tell you all you need to know about these hearings.

Multiple MSM sources are reporting that they want to testify and there is nothing that legally prevents them from doing so.

It sounds like because you saw him in the front seat in NY years ago that you may have already made up mind.
 
espola said:
The agent most likely to have rebuttal testimony (Tony Ornato) is already being criticized for his penchant for self-serving dishonesty by others who worked with him. This could end up in she said - he said - she said - he said circus.

Remember espola rule #1 -- always tell the truth - that way you only have one story to remember.
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Sounds like more hearsay......
 
watfly said:
And if they dont its because the committee doesnt want the credibilty of their "bombshell" witness impugned. That should tell you all you need to know about these hearings.

Multiple MSM sources are reporting that they want to testify and there is nothing that legally prevents them from doing so.

It sounds like because you saw him in the front seat in NY years ago that you may have already made up mind.
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Idk. I can remember in 2008, when the Dems took control of the House and tried to compel Bush's SS agents to testify about Bush's conversations with his lawyers and in private meetings they had overheard; as there was concern from the Dems regarding the nature of Bush's relationship with big oil. It's been long enough I could be misremembering, but as I recollect the court cases went on for years and the agents never ended up testifying.
 
Secret Service Agents
Told To Testify
By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 23, 1998; Page A01

A federal judge ordered Secret Service officers yesterday to reveal what they know about President Clinton's relationship with Monica S. Lewinsky, dismissing dire warnings that such testimony would jeopardize the safety of presidents by destroying their trust in the agents who guard them.

Chief U.S. District Judge Norma Holloway Johnson, who has sided with independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr in several recent decisions related to his investigation of Clinton, ruled that Secret Service personnel are obligated as law enforcement officers to turn over evidence in a criminal probe and refused to create a special "protective function privilege" that would exempt them.

 
tenacious said:
Idk. I can remember in 2008, when the Dems took control of the House and tried to compel Bush's SS agents to testify about Bush's conversations with his lawyers and in private meetings they had overheard; as there was concern from the Dems regarding the nature of Bush's relationship with big oil. It's been long enough I could be misremembering, but as I recollect the court cases went on for years and the agents never ended up testifying.
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Lion Eyes said:
Secret Service Agents
Told To Testify
By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 23, 1998; Page A01

A federal judge ordered Secret Service officers yesterday to reveal what they know about President Clinton's relationship with Monica S. Lewinsky, dismissing dire warnings that such testimony would jeopardize the safety of presidents by destroying their trust in the agents who guard them.

Chief U.S. District Judge Norma Holloway Johnson, who has sided with independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr in several recent decisions related to his investigation of Clinton, ruled that Secret Service personnel are obligated as law enforcement officers to turn over evidence in a criminal probe and refused to create a special "protective function privilege" that would exempt them.

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From Politico:

Anthony Guglielmi, the service’s chief of communications, told POLITICO that select committee investigators did not ask Secret Service personnel to reappear or answer questions in writing in the 10 days before asking Hutchinson about the matter at the hearing.

“[W]e were not asked to reappear before the Committee in response to yesterday’s new information and we plan on formally responding on the record,” he wrote in an email. “We have and will continue to make any member of the Secret Service available.”
 
Lion Eyes said:
Secret Service Agents
Told To Testify
By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 23, 1998; Page A01

A federal judge ordered Secret Service officers yesterday to reveal what they know about President Clinton's relationship with Monica S. Lewinsky, dismissing dire warnings that such testimony would jeopardize the safety of presidents by destroying their trust in the agents who guard them.

Chief U.S. District Judge Norma Holloway Johnson, who has sided with independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr in several recent decisions related to his investigation of Clinton, ruled that Secret Service personnel are obligated as law enforcement officers to turn over evidence in a criminal probe and refused to create a special "protective function privilege" that would exempt them.

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Ahh gotcha. Okay I stand corrected. Now I'm with you guys, let's hear the agents...

MSN

www.msn.com
 
watfly said:
From Politico:

Anthony Guglielmi, the service’s chief of communications, told POLITICO that select committee investigators did not ask Secret Service personnel to reappear or answer questions in writing in the 10 days before asking Hutchinson about the matter at the hearing.

“[W]e were not asked to reappear before the Committee in response to yesterday’s new information and we plan on formally responding on the record,” he wrote in an email. “We have and will continue to make any member of the Secret Service available.”
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I'm not sure I follow why it's important they testify within ten days. You think Trump grabbing the steering would have been a detail they forgot to add (or not add) into their first testimony?

Guess maybe I was a defense lawyer grasping at straws I could see your concern... but as someone trying to understand the truth I'm more interested in the agents testimony given before they have had the opportunity to listen to what everyone else had said.
 
tenacious said:
I'm not sure I follow why it's important they testify within ten days. You think Trump grabbing the steering would have been a detail they forgot to add (or not add) into their first testimony?

Guess maybe I was a defense lawyer grasping at straws I could see your concern... but as someone trying to understand the truth I'm more interested in the agents testimony given before they have had the opportunity to listen to what everyone else had said.
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No clue what the relevance of the 10 days is. Interesting "grasping at straws" comment. I hope you only mean that as a back handed insult directed at me and don't truly believe that. I'd be troubled if you think defendants can be convicted on hearsay and aren't entitled to a rebuttal witness.

While dramatic and it certainly got the MSM wetting their pants in joy, her testimony really wasn't all that relevant. Having a bad temper isn't an impeachable offense. The fact that it was mostly 2nd and 3rd hand reports is just evidence of the fact that the hearing is more of a kangaroo court. I'd argue the salacious, but not criminal, testimony is more a sign of a desperate prosecutor.

So I guess I don't really care that much about her testimony either way. What he did or didn't do in regards to Georgia and Arizona election officials is really what's relevant.
 
watfly said:
No clue what the relevance of the 10 days is. Interesting "grasping at straws" comment. I hope you only mean that as a back handed insult directed at me and don't truly believe that. I'd be troubled if you think defendants can be convicted on hearsay and aren't entitled to a rebuttal witness.

While dramatic and it certainly got the MSM wetting their pants in joy, her testimony really wasn't all that relevant. Having a bad temper isn't an impeachable offense. The fact that it was mostly 2nd and 3rd hand reports is just evidence of the fact that the hearing is more of a kangaroo court. I'd argue the salacious, but not criminal, testimony is more a sign of a desperate prosecutor.

So I guess I don't really care that much about her testimony either way. What he did or didn't do in regards to Georgia and Arizona election officials is really what's relevant.
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Wanting to lead an insurrectionist armed mob into the Capitol for the expressed purpose of overturning American Democracy is irrelevant to you?
 
watfly said:
No clue what the relevance of the 10 days is. Interesting "grasping at straws" comment. I hope you only mean that as a back handed insult directed at me and don't truly believe that. I'd be troubled if you think defendants can be convicted on hearsay and aren't entitled to a rebuttal witness.
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This is the sentence that was tripping me up when I asked why ten days was important.

watfly said:
From Politico:
Anthony Guglielmi, the service’s chief of communications, told POLITICO that select committee investigators did not ask Secret Service personnel to reappear or answer questions in writing in the 10 days before asking Hutchinson about the matter at the hearing.
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watfly said:
While dramatic and it certainly got the MSM wetting their pants in joy, her testimony really wasn't all that relevant. Having a bad temper isn't an impeachable offense. The fact that it was mostly 2nd and 3rd hand reports is just evidence of the fact that the hearing is more of a kangaroo court. I'd argue the salacious, but not criminal, testimony is more a sign of a desperate prosecutor.

So I guess I don't really care that much about her testimony either way. What he did or didn't do in regards to Georgia and Arizona election officials is really what's relevant.
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I'm certainly not making a backhanded compliment. Merely pointing out that while in a court of law the judge get's to say what the jury gets to consider... that isn't the bar I'm following. I.e. many things that would be of interest to a trained lawyer, aren't necessarily what concerns me.

If we're going to have a good debate, it seemed fair to mention that. I make television and can speak to bad acting and a good understanding of the craft of entertainment.
 
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