President Joe Biden

Grace T. said:
It's interesting. I heard from my first supervisee a few days ago. Left the law to go into real estate almost 15 years ago now. He specializes is UMC DINK mini mansion housing. He's calling everyone he knows to try and drum up business. Haven't spoken since prepandemic so we got to chatting...it may just be his particular market but he basically says the bottom has dropped out and it's generally much much worse than the media has acknowledged and he's far more worried than he was in 2008. Again, might just be given his market sliver but his sense of it is the middle middle class market is getting hit just as hard....it's like the titanic where the iceberg has hit but people still don't see it going down....will when those adjustables start defaulting he says.
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I have many family members who are heavily involved in the real estate market. My nephew in Austin has said that his repeat customers is down 40/50% as people have stopped investing in houses. A few of the guys I ride with are also real estate investors but are now trying to liquidate some of their holdings but are not seeing much action, even with them lowering their properties substantially. One of the common feelings is that we are nowhere near the bottom, but that when that bottom is reached it's the people with cash that will be doing all the buying.
 
Grace T. said:
It was actually partially the right's fault when they went to the Supreme Court to get an exemption for the flag to protect flag burning and when they came out against movies, like The Last Temptation, which they thought were blasphemous. On the left there was Al Gore's wife and the rap records.

As they say....it's either all o.k., or none of it is.
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Haha... Al and Tipper. Now they are divorced and Prince (I think it was his song lyrics?) is now considered a national treasure. The world works in mysterious ways.

I do think you're onto something with the Supreme Court rulings having an influence Grace. I was also going to blame the end of the cold war. Freedom of speech is wildly more important when there is a threat of someone taking it away. Where as in an American dominated world where freedom rings... well 'freedom of speech' is just another 'right' that folks feel they are owed.

Here we have freedom of speech, and with the power of the internet now can the ability share thoughts and ideas across boarders and time zones; and the best we seem to be able to do with it is scream and yell at each other. What a waste.
 
tenacious said:
Haha... Al and Tipper. Now they are divorced and Prince (I think it was his song lyrics?) is now considered a national treasure. The world works in mysterious ways.

I do think you're onto something with the Supreme Court rulings having an influence Grace. I was also going to blame the end of the cold war. Freedom of speech is wildly more important when there is a threat of someone taking it away. Where as in an American dominated world where freedom rings... well 'freedom of speech' is just another 'right' that folks feel they are owed.

Here we have freedom of speech, and with the power of the internet now can the ability share thoughts and ideas across boarders and time zones; and the best we seem to be able to do with it is scream and yell at each other. What a waste.
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They need to keep us occupied blaming each other to save their own skin.
 
tenacious said:
Haha... Al and Tipper. Now they are divorced and Prince (I think it was his song lyrics?) is now considered a national treasure. The world works in mysterious ways.

I do think you're onto something with the Supreme Court rulings having an influence Grace. I was also going to blame the end of the cold war. Freedom of speech is wildly more important when there is a threat of someone taking it away. Where as in an American dominated world where freedom rings... well 'freedom of speech' is just another 'right' that folks feel they are owed.

Here we have freedom of speech, and with the power of the internet now can the ability share thoughts and ideas across boarders and time zones; and the best we seem to be able to do with it is scream and yell at each other. What a waste.
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Well only certain people have freedom of speech on the internet. They other people get fact checked...
 
Multi Sport said:
Is that you on the left? That's a rhetorical question.. we know you're on the left.
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I don’t always vote Republican, but when I do they are the right person for the job . . . not the person I want to put on shirts, hats, flags, banners, tattooed on me and praise as if they were the second coming.
 
tenacious said:
Here we have freedom of speech, and with the power of the internet now can the ability share thoughts and ideas across boarders and time zones; and the best we seem to be able to do with it is scream and yell at each other. What a waste.
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While the internet does provide a easy and anonymous forum to scream and yell at each other, the access to information (even if some of it is misinformation) far outweighs the negative impact of public conflict. Misinformation and conflict has always been out there it just used to spread a lot slower and maybe not get in the mainstream. This biggest issue I see is that the right to free speech has been superseded by the right "not to be offended" which I can't seem to find in the Constitution. I'm a free speech absolutist, they way I look at is if someone is burning an American flag or waving a Nazi flag, I want them out in the public and not hiding in the shadows. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Of course there is a discussion to be had about rights vs. responsibilities.

The biggest difference I see between "then and now" is the lack of tolerance of opposing opinions. Good faith debate used to be more prevalent, now an opposing opinion is met with insults and claims of "ism" or cries to be silenced. There seems to be a trend for many that if you have one particular opinion (or voted for a certain person) then you meet a checklist of other opinions, when in fact most people are far more nuanced and moderate and not purely partisan. We have a habit of placing people in boxes which this forum so clearly illustrates. The most hard fought issues are those that are emotional causes that often have little to do with substance, common sense or reality.

The apparent death in journalism hasn't helped the situation either. In the place of accuracy and substance we get journalists that want to be the first to report with a focus on emotion and promoting conflict. Posting Tweets for a story has now become a prominent form of journalism. Obviously, the line between news and punditry has been completely destroyed.

We have a lot more in common, than politics but some are deciding friendships based solely on politics. That's crazy. The good news is I'm seeing a recent trend where being a parent is far stronger than whether you are a Dem or Rep.
 
tenacious said:
Policy wise there is a lot I disagree with. But somehow these sort of personal attacks always feel a bit unpatriotic to me. Idk. Same as watching someone burn a flag.
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Not " Personal " attacks.

Pointing out the inability of THAT 79 year old " Man " to
conduct/control his own physical/mental actions let alone run an
entire country.
HE DOES NOT BELONG ON THE FIELD " SIDELINE "
COACHING/INSTRUCTING ANYTHING OR ANYONE.

JUST HIS REPUTATION OF PAST/PRESENT " EPISODES "
INTERACTING WITH YOUNG LADIES/GIRLS WOULD HAVE
VEHEMENTLY DISQUALIFIED HIM FROM EVER PLACING
A FOOT ON ANY SOCCER FIELD EVER.

SHOW ME ONE COACH WHO HAS/HAD HIS REPUTATION THAT
ANY PARENT WOULD ALLOW NEAR THEIR CHILDREN WILLINGLY !

SHOW ME ONE !!!!!
 
watfly said:
While the internet does provide a easy and anonymous forum to scream and yell at each other, the access to information (even if some of it is misinformation) far outweighs the negative impact of public conflict. Misinformation and conflict has always been out there it just used to spread a lot slower and maybe not get in the mainstream. This biggest issue I see is that the right to free speech has been superseded by the right "not to be offended" which I can't seem to find in the Constitution. I'm a free speech absolutist, they way I look at is if someone is burning an American flag or waving a Nazi flag, I want them out in the public and not hiding in the shadows. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Of course there is a discussion to be had about rights vs. responsibilities.

The biggest difference I see between "then and now" is the lack of tolerance of opposing opinions. Good faith debate used to be more prevalent, now an opposing opinion is met with insults and claims of "ism" or cries to be silenced. There seems to be a trend for many that if you have one particular opinion (or voted for a certain person) then you meet a checklist of other opinions, when in fact most people are far more nuanced and moderate and not purely partisan. We have a habit of placing people in boxes which this forum so clearly illustrates. The most hard fought issues are those that are emotional causes that often have little to do with substance, common sense or reality.

The apparent death in journalism hasn't helped the situation either. In the place of accuracy and substance we get journalists that want to be the first to report with a focus on emotion and promoting conflict. Posting Tweets for a story has now become a prominent form of journalism. Obviously, the line between news and punditry has been completely destroyed.

We have a lot more in common, than politics but some are deciding friendships based solely on politics. That's crazy. The good news is I'm seeing a recent trend where being a parent is far stronger than whether you are a Dem or Rep.
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When obvious lies are defended as just an “opposing opinion” yes there is an issue.
And when I have to endure not only the non wavering belief but enshrinement in those lies, again, I take issue.
Also remember many people, myself included, see silence as condoning.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
When obvious lies are defended as just an “opposing opinion” yes there is an issue.
And when I have to endure not only the non wavering belief but enshrinement in those lies, again, I take issue.
Also remember many people, myself included, see silence as condoning.
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have You ever thought maybe people don’t give a shit that you consider silence as condoning

many People don’t want to adhere to whatever standards you have
 
Brav520 said:
have You ever thought maybe people don’t give a shit that you consider silence as condoning

many People don’t want to adhere to whatever standards you have
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So then why did you bother? Emotional release? You feel better now? Wipe your tears and get back to work, those holes don’t dig themselves! Lol! What a kook.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
So then why did you bother? Emotional release? You feel better now? Wipe your tears and get back to work, those holes don’t dig themselves! Lol! What a kook.
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perfect response, I love it


I hope you will work on trying to “endure “ all those lies

I think we do fine in here enduring all of yours , I have confidence you will
 
Hüsker Dü said:
When obvious lies are defended as just an “opposing opinion” yes there is an issue.
And when I have to endure not only the non wavering belief but enshrinement in those lies, again, I take issue.
Also remember many people, myself included, see silence as condoning.
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Most things aren't that black and white and the most divisive issues in our country are largely emotional, or at least the debate is. The conflict often times arises because the sides are framed as absolutes, when in reality the vast majority don't want unlimited abortion or unlimited gun ownership, for example.

I hate to break it to you but lies are also protected free speech, so instead of silencing lies, you have to combat them. Fights lies with facts, not silence and insults. When you go the ad hominem route its assumed you've lost the debate. Lies can also be in the eye of the beholder. Many considered the Wuhan lab leak to be a lie, when was actually quite possible and may be true.

While there are obvious lies, what is truth or fiction for many people is based upon their life experiences which can vary dramatically from person to person. That's why its always good to try and stand in someone else's shoes.
 
watfly said:
Most things aren't that black and white and the most divisive issues in our country are largely emotional, or at least the debate is. The conflict often times arises because the sides are framed as absolutes, when in reality the vast majority don't want unlimited abortion or unlimited gun ownership, for example.

I hate to break it to you but lies are also protected free speech, so instead of silencing lies, you have to combat them. Fights lies with facts, not silence and insults. When you go the ad hominem route its assumed you've lost the debate. Lies can also be in the eye of the beholder. Many considered the Wuhan lab leak to be a lie, when was actually quite possible and may be true.

While there are obvious lies, what is truth or fiction for many people is based upon their life experiences which can vary dramatically from person to person. That's why its always good to try and stand in someone else's shoes.
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One of the very disturbing trends is we have politicians pushing tech companies to censor speech.

Right now a small number of tech companies own/control the main means one communicates on the internet and they are increasingly shutting down contrary opinions, etc.

A very bad trend. What is worse is a large segment of the population like the fact that certain ideas are shut down.

The pendulum will eventually shift the other way...and those corporations will shut down the other side.

We cannot have that.
 
Desert Hound said:
One of the very disturbing trends is we have politicians pushing tech companies to censor speech.

Right now a small number of tech companies own/control the main means one communicates on the internet and they are increasingly shutting down contrary opinions, etc.

A very bad trend. What is worse is a large segment of the population like the fact that certain ideas are shut down.

The pendulum will eventually shift the other way...and those corporations will shut down the other side.

We cannot have that.
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You're still free to tell your lies here, so what are you complaining about?
 
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