Practicing 12 hours -- too much?

B

Bananacorner

SILVER ELITE
Ok, realize this is an overdone topic, but this may be a new twist.

One of my DD is U13 and coach has set up summer practices. I was surprised to see not just 4 2-hour practices a week in the evening, but also 2 2-hour practices in the morning as well, meaning the girls will be doing DOUBLES 2 days a week.

So I remember doubles being done for some teams during summer in high school, and I certainly am aware that doubles are a common phenomenon for younger kids in sports like swimming, but is this a new trend for soccer? I have never heard 12-year olds playing twice a day, although certainly at soccer camps they will go for a week or two playing several hours a day. Have I missed the memo? In theory I'm not opposed given it is summer and she has not schoolwork or other pressing commitments, but isn't it making the kids prone to over-use injuries? Should I take my DD to all 6 practices, for a total of 12 hours of team practice every week? Or should I quietly find a way to miss a few hours each week?

I had already planned to have her continue with her group training (combination injury prevention/strengthening, core work, agility, quickness, individual ball-work), but am I just adding to the problem?

Part of me is in awe of the coach who is willing to put in 12 hours of practice with this team every week over summer, and I'm not paying anything additional, and it really exceeds expectations. But then what are the consequences?
 
Bananacorner said:
Ok, realize this is an overdone topic, but this may be a new twist.

One of my DD is U13 and coach has set up summer practices. I was surprised to see not just 4 2-hour practices a week in the evening, but also 2 2-hour practices in the morning as well, meaning the girls will be doing DOUBLES 2 days a week.

So I remember doubles being done for some teams during summer in high school, and I certainly am aware that doubles are a common phenomenon for younger kids in sports like swimming, but is this a new trend for soccer? I have never heard 12-year olds playing twice a day, although certainly at soccer camps they will go for a week or two playing several hours a day. Have I missed the memo? In theory I'm not opposed given it is summer and she has not schoolwork or other pressing commitments, but isn't it making the kids prone to over-use injuries? Should I take my DD to all 6 practices, for a total of 12 hours of team practice every week? Or should I quietly find a way to miss a few hours each week?

I had already planned to have her continue with her group training (combination injury prevention/strengthening, core work, agility, quickness, individual ball-work), but am I just adding to the problem?

Part of me is in awe of the coach who is willing to put in 12 hours of practice with this team every week over summer, and I'm not paying anything additional, and it really exceeds expectations. But then what are the consequences?
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What coach, team, level?
 
Is the expectation that you attend all practices? Or is he giving alternative options for kids that have other stuff going on this summer?
 
timbuck said:
Is the expectation that you attend all practices? Or is he giving alternative options for kids that have other stuff going on this summer?
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That's a very good question timbuck. It wasn't communicated to my DD or the parents that all practices must be attended (yet), so it may be more of an alternative option situation, given how often people miss during the summer. But then the reality is that unless coach communicates that not all need be attended, many kids will feel obligated to try and go, particularly if they are concerned about their position on the team.
 
Bananacorner said:
but isn't it making the kids prone to over-use injuries?
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Yeah this is a legit concern. Especially in the girls 12-14 ages. Because of how their bones and bodies mature at that age, overuse and lack of recovery time is a BIG deal. My DD and countless of her friends/teammates experienced ankle/foot/knee problems at that age and coincidentally, I found this to be the age with the most volume of time dedicated to practice and training. Once they hit HS, with the HS soccer black-out months, it got much lighter. I guess if this is DA, your kid won't even have that as a refuge. With that kind of practice load, assuming they will be running and cutting and kicking during all these hours, and assuming that this is not just a one or two week deal, I can guarantee you that this team will end up with a bunch of foot/leg/ankle/knee injuries by Sept. You can quote me on that.

They're pre-pubescent kids for crying out loud, not full grown professionals.
 
It's a lot of practice if it's all summer. As stated above, it does depend on what will be happening at these practices.
Why does he see a reason to train this much? Is it fitness that your team needs? Technical work? Tactical work?
If one practice is all tactical walk through/film type of stuff, then it "might" be ok. But if it's 2x a day, 1980s hellweek football type of stuff, then I'd be very careful.
Soccer cleats are terrible for feet. I couldn't imagine wearing them for 4 hours across the span of a day.
But if the coach has a very smart and well thought out plan for periodization, this might be ok. But you don't go from practicing 6 hours a week to 12 hours a week with high intensity just cold turkey. You need to build up to it. And you need to expect that there is a "peak" of this fitness, which means there is also a diminishing return at some point.

(Sidebar - I have mentioned before that I used to participate in lots of running races and triathlon. 12 hours of training in a week was near the top end of my training when getting ready for an ironman distance race. The most I ever trained in a week was about 18 hours. And that was built up to and 3 weeks prior to the race. Followed by a 2 week taper to be at "peak performance" for a long day. Soccer is not triathlon and I don't see a reason to train that much with high intensity)
 
I member back in the day,when I was kid...

Times have changed since I was 11-15 when baseball All-Star practice was 8-12 and 2-dark m-f and 8-1 on saturdays for a month. Didnt think much of it then in the 80s - was just having fun. We wernt being burnt out and baseball has less conditioning aspects then soccer but I rembember going home spent.

My kid does camps and afternoon practices with the club - usually 3 or 4 weeks of the summer m-w. Those weeks if club is practicing he will get 16hrs (they break as well) and in a tournament and you can add about 2-2.5hr extra. He also likes to play outside with friends. He has been okay for last couple summers. The main thing is a kid needs to say "i need a break" or "i need a drink" when they feel any discomfort or hot.

I know most active kids play at school for at least an hr and/or have PE. Come home pratice and often play outside before and after practice - many swim for hrs as well. If you have an active kid count how many hours they are doing excersice outside of soccer. Youll be surprised how much they are moving. Now id balance it and make sure they are getting enough rest (naps), stay hydrated and have proper nutrition.

Also have see what the coach(es) are doing. At 12-13 a couple hrs a day 2x a day isnt going to kill them BUT shouldnt revolve a schedule around both times if it is a strain on family time. I figure better than them vegging out and tapping buttons on a phone half of the day
 
timbuck said:
It's a lot of practice if it's all summer. As stated above, it does depend on what will be happening at these practices.
Why does he see a reason to train this much? Is it fitness that your team needs? Technical work? Tactical work?
If one practice is all tactical walk through/film type of stuff, then it "might" be ok. But if it's 2x a day, 1980s hellweek football type of stuff, then I'd be very careful.
Soccer cleats are terrible for feet. I couldn't imagine wearing them for 4 hours across the span of a day.
But if the coach has a very smart and well thought out plan for periodization, this might be ok. But you don't go from practicing 6 hours a week to 12 hours a week with high intensity just cold turkey. You need to build up to it. And you need to expect that there is a "peak" of this fitness, which means there is also a diminishing return at some point.

(Sidebar - I have mentioned before that I used to participate in lots of running races and triathlon. 12 hours of training in a week was near the top end of my training when getting ready for an ironman distance race. The most I ever trained in a week was about 18 hours. And that was built up to and 3 weeks prior to the race. Followed by a 2 week taper to be at "peak performance" for a long day. Soccer is not triathlon and I don't see a reason to train that much with high intensity)
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I agree. As mentioned my kid has gone some weeks with a lot of triaining, not ALL summer but for a few weeks. Wasnt boot camp style. You do make a good point about cleats. My kid is on turf which can be rough but uses comfortable turf shoes. I think ill monitor his feet a little more closley this summer
 
Insane schedule. Only way it can work is if lot of those sessions are juggling or first touch sessions where there's minimal physical activity involved.

But I like the coach's ambition.
 
Competitive dancers and gymnast laugh at 12 hours per week.

Many of the dancers and ballerinas at my daughters previous school were putting in 20-25 hours per week, ages 10-15. Very few injuries. These girls have next to no body fat. Gymnast at the higher levels go 20+ hours as well, but I do know that is tough on their knees. My 2005 soccer playing daughter swims for an hour plays basketball a couple hours, and puts in a couple hours at soccer practice. If it is still light out she runs to the courts again after soccer practice. That is a fun day for her.

If the coach rotates what is being done, say 4 hours per week technique, 3 hours conditioning, and 4 hours small sided scrimmages, really shouldn't be too much.
 
socalkdg said:
Competitive dancers and gymnast laugh at 12 hours per week.

Many of the dancers and ballerinas at my daughters previous school were putting in 20-25 hours per week, ages 10-15. Very few injuries. These girls have next to no body fat. Gymnast at the higher levels go 20+ hours as well, but I do know that is tough on their knees. My 2005 soccer playing daughter swims for an hour plays basketball a couple hours, and puts in a couple hours at soccer practice. If it is still light out she runs to the courts again after soccer practice. That is a fun day for her.

If the coach rotates what is being done, say 4 hours per week technique, 3 hours conditioning, and 4 hours small sided scrimmages, really shouldn't be too much.
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Sports like gymnastics and dance require that players peak at a very young age. Unfortunately, it seems soccer is moving in that direction also. Pre-collegiate teens are on the National Team. Initial YNT's are selected at U15 (Really U14) ... and in the U.S. Soccer press releases, it states that that is the "core group" that will continue on and compete for World Cups-- (2-3 years later). ODP moved back it's age and started at the 06 age group this year (so... 10/11 years old)?? no doubt to serve as some kind of "elite player" ID. So, we are ID-ing kids as elite/YNT/college prospects when they are only in elementary school! Is it any wonder why one might go for "over-training" at young ages?? But it is a shame this is happening.
 
socalkdg said:
Competitive dancers and gymnast laugh at 12 hours per week.

Many of the dancers and ballerinas at my daughters previous school were putting in 20-25 hours per week, ages 10-15. Very few injuries. These girls have next to no body fat. Gymnast at the higher levels go 20+ hours as well, but I do know that is tough on their knees. My 2005 soccer playing daughter swims for an hour plays basketball a couple hours, and puts in a couple hours at soccer practice. If it is still light out she runs to the courts again after soccer practice. That is a fun day for her.

If the coach rotates what is being done, say 4 hours per week technique, 3 hours conditioning, and 4 hours small sided scrimmages, really shouldn't be too much.
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You can't really compare the sports like that.

Soccer is like running a 5k with about 40 50-80 meter sprints, plus about a game per week, which is incredibly demanding. You can only do so much of that type of running

I'm not a gymnastics expert, but im guessing they spend a lot of time stretching and strength training, and it appears to be more short bursts of activity followed by a good break to recover. I'm not knocking gymnasts, their strength to weight ratio is superhuman and their combo of strength and flexibility is freakish.

But the combination of endurance running and sprinting in soccer is so punishing on the legs it limits the amount of dynamic training they can do.
 
Yeah, those 12 year old gymnasts can be amazing. But that's not the life or the body that I want for my kid. (Partially because of the way my wife and I are built, my kid's won't have a gymnasts body. And partially because I don't want my kid in a gym 15 hours a week. And partially because they weren't so great at cartwheels when they were 6).
 
socalkdg said:
Competitive dancers and gymnast laugh at 12 hours per week.

Many of the dancers and ballerinas at my daughters previous school were putting in 20-25 hours per week, ages 10-15. Very few injuries. These girls have next to no body fat. Gymnast at the higher levels go 20+ hours as well, but I do know that is tough on their knees. My 2005 soccer playing daughter swims for an hour plays basketball a couple hours, and puts in a couple hours at soccer practice. If it is still light out she runs to the courts again after soccer practice. That is a fun day for her.

If the coach rotates what is being done, say 4 hours per week technique, 3 hours conditioning, and 4 hours small sided scrimmages, really shouldn't be too much.
Click to expand...

Also, sports like dance and gymnastics aren't nearly the same type of wear and tear on the body. They are technique based sports with strength, while in soccer, it is technique, but also sprints, slide tackles, fights for the ball, etc. It is a different, harsher sport to the body. It is the same reason why performances are displays of routine of those hours practicing and putting it together while soccer at the highest level is 90 minutes of a game where everything is constantly changing and therefore requires more movement, more challenges, more contact. Soccer is a contact sport. Gymnastics and dance are not. They are different, so the amount of time for one practice or session will be different.

However, with that being said, that does not mean (and this does not apply to the original question but, ) that if a kid has a two hour practice, that that same kid will not be going out and juggling or taking touches on the ball on their own later or before. That is the technique side that the kid could probably spend hours doing such as a dancer or gymnast is.
 
Real Deal said:
Sports like gymnastics and dance require that players peak at a very young age. Unfortunately, it seems soccer is moving in that direction also. Pre-collegiate teens are on the National Team. Initial YNT's are selected at U15 (Really U14) ... and in the U.S. Soccer press releases, it states that that is the "core group" that will continue on and compete for World Cups-- (2-3 years later). ODP moved back it's age and started at the 06 age group this year (so... 10/11 years old)?? no doubt to serve as some kind of "elite player" ID. So, we are ID-ing kids as elite/YNT/college prospects when they are only in elementary school! Is it any wonder why one might go for "over-training" at young ages?? But it is a shame this is happening.
Click to expand...

and after watching the Norway game today where they got absolutely lucky to even get one goal...my question is to what end?
 
JJP said:
You can't really compare the sports like that.
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Nope you can't. The level of intensity and quantity of training required for competitive dance is on a whole other level from club soccer, its not even close. My daughter's training starts at 12 hours a week and easily goes over 20 hours many weeks while always moving on her feet. There is no room for anything but perfection in dance, the pressure is immense. The skill sets required in the various disciplines are insane. The abuse to their bodies can be dramatic. These girls contort their bodies in ways that are not human. Soccer is child's play comparatively speaking, although you do have contact injuries in soccer. The girls do it for the love of the sport, camaraderie and competition...there are effectively no college scholarships for dance.

I can't fathom the skill set my son would have in soccer if he trained like my daughter.
 
Striker17 said:
and after watching the Norway game today where they got absolutely lucky to even get one goal...my question is to what end?
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It shows that the training Europe does for its men, when applied to their women, produces a higher level of soccer than what the USA can presently produce.
 
JJP said:
It shows that the training Europe does for its men, when applied to their women, produces a higher level of soccer than what the USA can presently produce.
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I agree real Euro soccer academies where players eat, breath, eat and sleep soccer.
 
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