Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
Looks like ball was pinned between hand and thigh and ground, but man, that is hard to see clearly, at least on my iPhone
Possession (GK)
- Thread starter AZsoccerDad
- Start date
Frank
GOLD
Can’t really see it well.
Tea and Busquets
SILVER
Really?
Unless the player in white on the right sprinted back 5 yards in the second or so after this kick was taken, no chance of offside.
As far as possession, really difficult to tell. Instinct tells me the goalkeeper probably had a hand on top of the ball. But then it squirts out. If it were me in the middle (assuming like this referee I'd not bothered to get a bit closer to play) I'm not sure I'd say there was possession. A tough one to swallow, but there you are.
RJonesUSC
SILVER
So hard to tell in that video. Too bad the ref was so far out of position to get a good look.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
I didn't think he was that far out of position at all for that age. Don't want to be the ref that is inside the goal area scoring goals...
RJonesUSC
SILVER
He was closer to the half than the 18. He was out of position for where the kick was going to land. That much is clear.
I was talking about being offside when the kick was taken. Black player appears to be slightly behind the top of the 18. White players appear to be slightly in front of it. Probably too close to call at this level (or most other levels).
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
He tracked the ball in the area decently. Could he have set up better before the kick? Maybe, but maybe the game had been small ball before that. It is 09's, that was a big kick for an 09. Maybe the white team were great at getting 50/50s and were constantly booting it up field.
My point is, he wasn't too far off to see the ball when it did move near the goal area
RJonesUSC
SILVER
He was still about half way between the center line and the penalty area when the keeper may or may not have had possession. You can keep making excuses but it doesn't change the fact that he was out of position.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
You might be about right about halfway, plus or minus a few yards. It's a small field, that PA probably only 14 yards (not 18), and he is about half that away from the PA, so 21 yards from the goal line, but the keeper is about 6 yards out (GA only 5 yards at that age), so 15 yards away. If he can't call a game from 15 yards, we've got bigger problems. 10 yards away is ideal place to be, but 15 isn't horrible.
I mark the fields for our town, so I have a geek problem knowing the dimensions of all the fields by ages
RJonesUSC
SILVER
Thanks for the info, I like all the geek stuff. I'm a referee so sometimes I can't let this stuff go.
umeweall
SILVER
The general rule for our referees to enforce is that if the keeper is touching the ball, they have control. They can be fully stretched out, with 'one finger' on the ball, and it is their ball. Any attempt to kick the ball at that point will come with a sanction from the center referee. This is for recreational play, where the focus is on protecting the player. A goalie can sometimes be in a vulnerable position, stretched out on the ground, and the emphasis is on safe play. Take a look at the attached picture, where one goalie got a knee in the back, a whack to the head, and almost had their hand stepped on, in one play. The expression on the goalie's face is not one of being happy. This was in a U10G game. In this instance the coach, nor the referee, checked with the keeper, to see if she was o.k., even though she got up unsteadily, and appeared to be woozy. In this instance, the concussion protocol was not followed.
Definitely not possession, IMHO.
Tea and Busquets
SILVER
Surfref
PREMIER
Yes, she is. Good call.
Surfref
PREMIER
I could not tell when watching the video on my iPad. So, I played it on our 80 inch tv and it is clear the keeper had hands on the ball trapping it against the ground which would be considered possession. The blue player kicks the ball out of the keepers hand. Should have been no goal.
As for the referee, his initial positioning is okay. When the ball gets past the last defenders on the kick, the referee should have ran toward goal and slightly to his left to get a good view of the play and have a clearer angle looking toward the play. So, instead of walking he should have ran. It looks to me that there were 4-5 players that may have blocked his view of the keeper. Not sure if the AR would have been much help. I probably would have at least done a quick check with the AR if I had any question about possession.
Definitelynotanotherref
SILVER ELITE
According to the law, as long as the ball is "stopped" for even a moment (millisecond) in between the keepers hands or in between 1 hand and any body part and 1 hand and the ground- then it is considered possesion. Most people tend to try to project an American Football understanding of possession with the idea that a player needs to have control for like 2-3 steps to be considered "in control and in possesion", but this is incorrect, it only needs to be a moment. One exception: if the keeper fumbles or drops the ball "naturally" or against the ground. Again, here we have the opposite of American football. If the ground causes the fumble, then its anyone's ball again.
@AZsoccerDad so its the Am. football criteria being mixed in that makes it hard. Even if a referee slightly knows the rules, an untrained average Am. football watching fan will subconsciously think, "she never had the ball". even though he saw her have it for a split second.
As for the video, the answer lies in whether the keeper had a hand/finger on it at any point during the steal. I can't tell, maybe I'd trust surfref because he says he sees it.
Positioning, it's not perfect, but for this age its expected. He should be closer to the "drop zone" before the play even starts. He's covering 0 ground being out that far. even if there is a short pass, he would have time to walk 2 steps before the defenders run and make a challenge. The Penalty Area is higher priority. It's not even a running thing, he should just be standing in a different spot when he blows the whistle to start. Also, he would look better if he "walked with purpose" or was shuffling on the toes of both feet, but that's just a perception and selling your calls thing.
@AZsoccerDad so its the Am. football criteria being mixed in that makes it hard. Even if a referee slightly knows the rules, an untrained average Am. football watching fan will subconsciously think, "she never had the ball". even though he saw her have it for a split second.
As for the video, the answer lies in whether the keeper had a hand/finger on it at any point during the steal. I can't tell, maybe I'd trust surfref because he says he sees it.
Positioning, it's not perfect, but for this age its expected. He should be closer to the "drop zone" before the play even starts. He's covering 0 ground being out that far. even if there is a short pass, he would have time to walk 2 steps before the defenders run and make a challenge. The Penalty Area is higher priority. It's not even a running thing, he should just be standing in a different spot when he blows the whistle to start. Also, he would look better if he "walked with purpose" or was shuffling on the toes of both feet, but that's just a perception and selling your calls thing.
I don't know the answer to this but am curious - So what happens if the forward is dribbling the ball into the goal and keeper puts a finger on the ball but forward is still dribbling it into the goal? Is that a turnover of possession to keeper's team or is it continued dribbling and goal for forward's team?