Ponderable

Bernie Sanders said:
Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the government should force everyone to buy insurance. That is the idea behind Obamacare.
If you want to force everyone to buy insurance, why would'nt it be a very simple and cheap, catastrophic plan with a high deductable?
Your argument seems to be that we need something to cover the very expensive situations.
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You have to cover the entire population or it won't work. Free market healthcare has been failing America.
 
Wez said:
You have to cover the entire population or it won't work. Free market healthcare has been failing America.
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Just think if we didn't have to pay for 10 or 15 million illegal criminal aliens. That would probably solve the whole fucking problem.
 
Bernie Sanders said:
Sick like the common flu, they pay the doctor directly, or stay home and get better.
Sick like cancer, they pay the deductable.
Sick like hemorhoids, pay the doctor.
Sick like a stroke, pay the deductable.
Sick like a few stitches on the chin, pay the doctor.
Sick like a broken hip, pay the deductable.
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How about offering men sex in a outhouse and getting your ass kicked?
 
tenacious said:
I'll repeat my main problem with this. Healthcare is one of those things that doesn't work well in a capitalist marketplace.
First off let's keep in in the real world. If your kid were to have cancer, you can't put off that operation. You can't negotiate. You can't go in there and say Ima have to put my kids operation off for six months... unless you give me 10% off. Everyone knows that we take human life as more important then that. And this puts insurers and healthcare providers in the position to take advantage of the government. Regardless of how the guys in the ivory tower say it works... boots on the ground, taxpayers are getting stuck paying inflated costs.

Second let's just take a look around the world. We're paying more, but not really seeing many returns. At least we're not living longer or happier lives then you see in comparable first world country. France, Japan, Germany... they are all getting a comparable care, for percentage points less of their GDP. Especially when compared to what we had before Obamacare where the US was spending 17%+ of it's GDP on healthcare, vs European models where the governments take a hands on approach to pricing. There is no question that in practice, free market heath care has underperformed.
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Maintenance and catastrophic are not the same.
 
tenacious said:
I'll repeat my main problem with this. Healthcare is one of those things that doesn't work well in a capitalist marketplace.
First off let's keep in in the real world. If your kid were to have cancer, you can't put off that operation. You can't negotiate. You can't go in there and say Ima have to put my kids operation off for six months... unless you give me 10% off. Everyone knows that we take human life as more important then that. And this puts insurers and healthcare providers in the position to take advantage of the government. Regardless of how the guys in the ivory tower say it works... boots on the ground, taxpayers are getting stuck paying inflated costs.

Second let's just take a look around the world. We're paying more, but not really seeing many returns. At least we're not living longer or happier lives then you see in comparable first world country. France, Japan, Germany... they are all getting a comparable care, for percentage points less of their GDP. Especially when compared to what we had before Obamacare where the US was spending 17%+ of it's GDP on healthcare, vs European models where the governments take a hands on approach to pricing. There is no question that in practice, free market heath care has underperformed.
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Comparisons are fun. You should apply the relevant numbers like the fact that the U.S. has 2.5 physicians per 1000. Simple econ again. Supply up, price down (just like money supply). Supply down, price up (jlms). Simple. The countries you cheer have comporable physician/population ratios for a much smaller population then the U.S. Broken record, I know. Broken system to hear you tell it too. Comparisons are fun arenʻt they? I think you should keep doing them.
 
Bernie Sanders said:
Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the government should force everyone to buy insurance. That is the idea behind Obamacare.
If you want to force everyone to buy insurance, why would'nt it be a very simple and cheap, catastrophic plan with a high deductable?
Your argument seems to be that we need something to cover the very expensive situations.
Click to expand...
Because like FHA, the government likes discounting goods and services for certain industries and demographics. Taking in less money then is required to support a program, whether by deductible or fee, has failed to deliver the intended results for the masses. When the system, not surprisingly fails, the clueless public is quick to blame the private sector for pulling out of those programs because they were only focused on profits or a lack thereof.
 
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